What happens when you crash your car at the track?

[NSXAMG996TT]

1. S.O.L.
2. Track insurance for the day?
3. Most tracks do not TIME the laps, so it should not hurt/void your coverage?...

4. You finally realize that the NSX is not a go-cart and you shouldnt have put it on the track in the first place.

that is unless......

5. you have money to burn

Regarding #4--> A track-prepped NSX is as close to a go-cart as a street car can get. NSXs are built to be driven, but in your case to a car show instead.
Regarding #5--> I have the money to race (not burn).

Overall consensus is "SOL", but for me the risks far outweigh the benefits (as with any extreme hobbies). I've participated in Driver Development Programs and have been lucky enough to be instructed by some of the best NSX drivers /race car driver.

You're more likely to get into an accident on your way to a (boring) car show or a get ticket for no front plates, tint, exhaust, whatever. It comes down to each person's level of risk management.

 

[BATMANs]

People do call tow trucks to drop them on the side of a road after the accident.

 

[White92]

People do call tow trucks to drop them on the side of a road after the accident.

I handled an insurance claim for someone who did exactly that after hitting the wall at the drag strip in Vegas. Last I heard, he was still sitting in prison.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: The current insurance climate

I've actually helped a member on here with his claim after he totalled his car on a track. I got a copy of his policy and read it a few times front to back. There was absolutely no mention of anything track related in there. The claim was covered. The company was GEICO, but their policies are not the same in every state. I won't say who the member is, that's up to him if he wants to tell.

I haven't been involved in the insurance discussion for over 4 years, so I assumed 1) from the early posts in this thread, 2) with the rise of track day opportunities, and 3) just the passage of time, almost all companies would have tightened up their policy language to exclude virtually any activity on a track.

So, was this GEICO coverage recent?

Still doesnt' personally matter to me, just would like to know what my students are likely up against.

 

[White92]

Re: The current insurance climate

I haven't been involved in the insurance discussion for over 4 years, so I assumed 1) from the early posts in this thread, 2) with the rise of track day opportunities, and 3) just the passage of time, almost all companies would have tightened up their policy language to exclude virtually any activity on a track.

So, was this GEICO coverage recent?

Still doesnt' personally matter to me, just would like to know what my students are likely up against.

The GEICO claim was maybe 3 years ago. (?) And you're right. They are all tightening them up. I was blown away when I read the policy and found absolutely nothing about tracks or racing. I doubt I will ever see that happen again.

 

[BioBanker]

Re: The current insurance climate

A friend of mine had a claim payed out for his F360CS smacking the wall during a DE event last year. $80k damage. His rate went up $500 this year.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Very good subject that no one wants to talk about. Even with my instructor, I could tell if I took my eyes off the track for a second I could crash. On several sections you are running well over 100 MPH. I am pretty sure I was at over 125 on the straights. There were lots of walls, guard rails, and fences. I have somewhere around 125K into my NSX. At best, I would never be reimbursed for the extras. Maybe they would give me 70K for the bare car. That thought really did make me sweat.

My agent called my company and said I was "covered". Was I really? I don't know. Who am I supposed to cry to afterwards? my agent? he will just say "we made a mistake". I want to learn the NSX badly. I want to improve my driving skills badly. But this is very risky business. I still am not sure what I can do short of getting a dedicated track car. A Miata or something cheap. These people running with 100K+ cars.... its a little nuts. I wish there was someone contradicting the things I am saying. :frown:

 

[White92]

Very good subject that no one wants to talk about. Even with my instructor, I could tell if I took my eyes off the track for a second I could crash. On several sections you are running well over 100 MPH. I am pretty sure I was at over 125 on the straights. There were lots of walls, guard rails, and fences. I have somewhere around 125K into my NSX. At best, I would never be reimbursed for the extras. Maybe they would give me 70K for the bare car. That thought really did make me sweat.

My agent called my company and said I was "covered". Was I really? I don't know. Who am I supposed to cry to afterwards? my agent? he will just say "we made a mistake". I want to learn the NSX badly. I want to improve my driving skills badly. But this is very risky business. I still am not sure what I can do short of getting a dedicated track car. A Miata or something cheap. These people running with 100K+ cars.... its a little nuts. I wish there was someone contradicting the things I am saying. :frown:

I guess it all boils down to if someone can't afford to wreck it at the track and just shrug it off, then maybe they shouldn't be at the track. Like you said, buy a dedicated track car for that. Either that or find a track with LOTS of run off room and drive on it without any other cars.

 

[RSO 34]

I have been saying for years that the insurance carriers were slowly but uniformly writing exclusions into their policies. I had coverage for HPDE with Allstate until January 2007. I was also involved with a carrier client 6 years ago facing an HPDE claim and looking for advice as to how to avoid paying future claims.

The bottom line is that each driver's individual policy language dictates whether that person is covered for track events. I have offered over the years to review anyone's policy to give an "unofficial" legal opinion but amazingly people would rather keep their head in the sand and trust their agent/broker without ever bothering to read the policy language.

The most likely outcome under current policies issued in the States is that HPDE is NOT covered. I cannot stress strongly enough that no one should rely upon anyone's opinions unless the actual policy language is reviewed for that specific driver. You will be surprised how simple it is to understand why you undoubtedly will never be covered for track driving (and this even includes an exclusion for parade laps under certain policies).

 

[Energy1]

"A friend of mine had a claim payed out for his F360CS smacking the wall during a DE event last year. $80k damage. His rate went up $500 this year."
He was lucky he still has insurance, I have so many waivers on my G policy that if anything happens anywhere near a track I am paying for it. That being said I will assume the risk and do a track event, hopefully soon, knowing Im out the car if something happens...its just money...

 

[TURBO2GO]

I would feel safe on a track with almost no walls and no guard rails. If you spin out and you hit dirt and gravel, you will be allright. Right?

But how many tracks are like that? can anyone name a few? Thunderhill is like that? anything around the northeast or northern california?

I am leaning towards skip barber now just because of this. I do not want to wreck my 100K car. I guess I am not one of those people that can wreck it and shrug it off. I'd be crying like a baby for a month....

 

[NSXAMG996TT]

Thunderhill has only one wall (turn 15) to be aware of. It's an extremely safe & fun track to learn on. However...............

At last week's Trackmaster's HPDE, another driver spun out directly behind me as I was giving him the point-by. I was lucky to avoid a collision with him, hence got me to think about this very question. I now trailer my car in an event that it breaks down, but won't do me any good if the car is totalled and I'm lying on an ambulance somewhere.

When you sign that waiver release at the front gate, it's all in god's hand!

 

[White92]

I would feel safe on a track with almost no walls and no guard rails. If you spin out and you hit dirt and gravel, you will be allright. Right?

But how many tracks are like that? can anyone name a few? Thunderhill is like that? anything around the northeast or northern california?

I am leaning towards skip barber now just because of this. I do not want to wreck my 100K car. I guess I am not one of those people that can wreck it and shrug it off. I'd be crying like a baby for a month....

Miller Motorsports Park (in Utah) is like that for the most part. I guess I should have used a different term if you wreck your car. Obviously a car means alot to somebody. I should have said that if you wreck your car, it shouldn't hurt you financially in a big way. Don't track your daily driver and have no way to get to work the next day if something happens. :smile:

 

[NSXAMG996TT]

OK...so I finally found an insurance carrier who specifically covers DE's.

WSIB wsibnsurance.com 866.904.9742

 

[sahtt]

If you can't afford or don't want to afford to write whatever you bring to the track off-don't bring it.

The main issue in my experience isn't even what you may or may not do, it's the fact that all those around you are not going to be held liable in the end.

People may tell you otherwise but when $hit hits the fan they won't be there to write you a check.

 

[Peter Mills]

You can reduce your own chance of having a mishap by choosing a hpde school in your region with strict policy/guidelines,mandatory instructers or adequate open track checkouts.then it is up to you.Plus try to choose tracks that have few if any obsticles to hit ie few guardrails/walls.

Doc John is absolutely correct. It's very important that you know the company you keep. A quality driving school should only be interested in developing your skills and creating a safe environment for all to play. Specific passing rules and on-track behavior are paramount for the safety of all.
Doc John and I have hundreds of hours on most of the tracks in the northeast and neither one of us has crashed. We are both accomplished drivers
and either the "bee" or "ole yeller" has a mark on them.

I was really learning how far I could push the NSX (even spun off the track once - late apexed a turn and snap over steer got the best of me).

That's very interesting. I've never heard of snap over steer from a late apex.
Maybe it was something else you did...like lifting or not unwinding the steering wheel..very interesting.

 

[NSXLuvr]

You can reduce your own chance of having a mishap by choosing a hpde school in your region with strict policy/guidelines,mandatory instructers or adequate open track checkouts.then it is up to you.Plus try to choose tracks that have few if any obsticles to hit ie few guardrails/walls.

This is a very important point. I don't think most of us "track junkies" can stop going to the track just because of the potential risk of damage/lack of coverage.

In texas, We have 3 major tracks. Each track has only 1 corner were you can strike a wall. I take those corners at 8/10ths on my NSX, 9.5/10ths in my SM.

Oh - option #4 should be buy a Miata. They are quite fun, teach you a lot about car control and dirt cheap to track.

 

[BioBanker]

If I could do it all over again, and I will at some point, instead of turning my 02 NSX into a trackish car, Id do exactly what these guys are suggesting, I would get a dedicated track car.

Id get one now, but my NSX is just too amazing on the track to demote it to a street only car at this point. Anything that I moved to would almost certainly be a lesser set up.

I would probably choose an S2000 with a hardtop and full rollover protection myself. High availability of mods. CRAZY FUN and reasonably quick car to begin with. CHEAP car and cheap to run. It would be perfect.

 

[NSXAMG996TT]

Wow I like option #4--> Spec Miata (for the same price of insurance coverage). However, it'll be hard to resist taking the NSX which has far more ability on the track than I can give it.

 

[docjohn]

For the nsx track newbs who are very nervous,but are drawn to try hpde,choose your venue and school carefuly but know this,if you are a cautious level headed person your risk of off track excursions imo is greatest after you have gained some experience(but not enough car control at speed).You now make the fatal flaw of thinking you are ok to sign up with car club xyz that has rented your local track for an open track day and you put yourself in thier intermediate or worse thier advanced group,heck its only the brickland/tr-4 owners club,thats when you will find your self in harms way.

 

[NSXDreamer2]

I bought a $2000 miata just wanting to do that, however, with the increasing gas price and my work requiring me parking offsite. (and offsight, even out of my remote control range.) I still ended up put some $$ into it with budget sport tires/rims and budget suspension mods.

It turns out a fun, cheap car to commute, and somehow the lightness of the miata felt more like a go kart than my nsx. I always wonder how it's like driving it on track but just like Biobanker, the nsx is so much fun driving on track.

to get the miata running in nsx lap time on a "real" track will cost you quite a bit. It can be done, as my freind's miata still smoked me, his miata is more expensive than my nsx though. funny thing is ever since I start driving the miata everyday, that improved my nsx lap time.

I still don't understand how people always mixing 6/10 and 11/10 driving....... Good driver knows where it's at and could do it in any small inclement level, adjusting for the condition. Bad driver, and those who really need to learn on track, (rather than experienced on road and using "OUR" insurance money) think that either 6/10 driving or 11/10 driving like a switch, they also only know the tire has grip or crash... scary.

 

[NSXAMG996TT]

I totally agree...it's not the amount of track days, but the amount of track hours (seat time) that help build experience & confidence. As I found out, track driving is nothing like street driving (there's definitely a learning curve). After completing about 30 hrs, I was finally able to drive solo.

From my observation, the intermediate group is actually a "mixed" group of advance and skilled drivers. The advance group seems to be skilled race-car drivers training for their event. I'm waiting for my instructor(s) to give me the green light to enter Low Intermediate by the end of this season.

BTW, I've seen most track incidents occurring at the end of the day (last session) when a driver becomes fatigued and tries to get in one last run

 

[NSXDreamer2]

if you do more events, you will find out the driver experiences are way different with different club. I'll say maybe you guys in CA area are a little higher...

my expierence is totally different, I've been running advance group on my 5th track day, and I swore I'm not going back to the other group if I don't have to... People in advance group are actually have less accidents than intermediate...

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Spec Miata for cheap speed

I think there's a reason that SCCA turns away SM racers from some races. SF region puts 69 cars on Infineon and turns away 15 cars for lack of racing room. The single indisputable reason is that the cars are cheap and fun to drive. They look humble and won't blow your hair back like some NSXs around here, but they sure teach you how to keep your momentum up and your lap times down and on momentum tracks they can hang with the NSX. And there is always someone to dice with no matter how far back in the pack you are. When you're club racing that's important.

If I ever go back on track with fenders and doors, it'll be in a SM.

 

[BATMANs]

.......somehow the lightness of the miata felt more like a go kart than my nsx....to get the miata running in nsx lap time on a "real" track will cost you quite a bit. It can be done, as my freind's miata still smoked me, his miata is more expensive than my nsx though. funny thing is ever since I start driving the miata everyday, that improved my nsx lap time.....

You'll have fun driving a RX7 (FD) if you like the miata's handling.

The RX7 has a stiffer chassis and is fast.

Sorta like combining the good performance qualities of the NSX and Miata.