Where are all the Production deliveries ??

[fastaussie]

After having a chance to experience one, Ferrari is really in driver seat #1 when it comes to making the best cars in the world. There is nothing out there that can touch the 488 - unless you are trying to compare it only on performance stats to a 675LT which sells for nearly half a million.

you couldn't be more correct. the Italians have the Supercar experience mastered from every angle, there is no comparison.

and i hate to say it, but if anyone disagrees, they simply haven't driven a Ferrari...

This will be interesting to watch. The same dealer has a white one also for $5k off msrp.One dealer - two 2017 NSXs on the floor. Someone might be motivated to give a very good discount on at least one of them........

and so it begins...

 

[Jinks]

I think the curva red looks really sharp. Valencia has a candy type sheen to it. Kinda looks like it should be on a Cadillac from photos. Have not seen in person. Either way though, I'd never get red. Been there, lost license 2 times in that car and it wasn't even fast.

 

[Jinks]

So what. There's plenty of other brands who have/had a halo car that was priced way over anything else in their lineup. Ford GT, Lexus LF-A, Dodge Viper, VW Phaeton, Nissan GT-R, and a few others. Were you complaining along the same lines back in 1991 when the original NSX was selling from $70-90k all while parked in the showroom next to a $18k Integra?

The price of the current NSX doesn't have to be "in line" with the rest of the brand. It has to be comparable to its direct competitors. Nobody is coming in cross shopping the $200k NSX to a $55k MDX and just says well I guess I'll get the MDX since it's cheape. According to the good folks at American Honda, the NSX's most direct competitors are the Audi R8, McLaren 570, and Porsche 911 Turbo S, all of which are pretty similar in price. And to some extent the NSX also competes with the 488 and Huracan though they cost more. But if a buyer has one of those in their sights, then really nothing else will do. We're not really stealing sales away from Ferrari or Lamborghini. Right now, McLaren is stealing sales away from everyone.

Your correct to an extent. The rest of the product line should be somewhat close but not leaps in fit, finish, and performance. Nissan has a 350z, Lexus has a IS-F, Ford has Shelby gt mustangs, Dodge has hell-cats but even back in the 90's vipers were dirt cheap, Audi has V8 sports sedans, Porsche has tons of products with similar performance, etc... I am aware that Acura is going to be boosting performance to the TLX and the ILX in the future to match the new performance type persona they are after. But why not do that first? Why make a car and price it in a market that is not even there?
But you work for Acura, soooo, I wouldn't knock things there either. It's your bread and butter.

 

[powdbyrice]

because acura likes doing things backwards.

the rlx had the hybrid sh-awd before the supercar. makes sense. trickle up, then trickle down to the mdx and maybe tlx.

 

[osus2k]

I started seriously looking at picking up a 2017, might trade in my recently aquired 92....my biggest problem is i cannot put in same league as a used huracan or 458.....pricing is kissing 200 for low mileage 2015 huracan and 458s can be found 175......audi r8 is also option....i worry about the complexity of the car and not being really diy....is this a car you want for 20 plus years.........dealers are anxious to move. I spoke with 2 today and they were throwing around $5k discountswithout significant provocation. I may sit back andfollow inventory through spring and see whats left on lots by mid summer. Im curious how much they have buffer they have built into the msrp

 

[Jinks]

I started seriously looking at picking up a 2017, might trade in my recently aquired 92....my biggest problem is i cannot put in same league as a used huracan or 458.....pricing is kissing 200 for low mileage 2015 huracan and 458s can be found 175......audi r8 is also option....i worry about the complexity of the car and not being really diy....is this a car you want for 20 plus years.........dealers are anxious to move. I spoke with 2 today and they were throwing around $5k discountswithout significant provocation. I may sit back andfollow inventory through spring and see whats left on lots by mid summer. Im curious how much they have buffer they have built into the msrp

Sleep on it and wait. These cars are not moving. They sit roped off next to MDX'S and continue to sit.

 

[MasterNSXTech]

But you work for Acura, soooo, I wouldn't knock things there either. It's your bread and butter.

No I'll call a spade a spade. I totally agree the rest of our lineup could be more exciting. American Honda knows it too. The ILX was supposed to be the rebirth of the "gateway" car to the brand as the Integra was 30 years ago. Nope. Everyone saw right through the fact that it was just a fancier Civic with the exact same powertrains but with about a $10k high bottom line. Was supposed to sell 60k plus units annually. Fell spectacularly short.

Pretty much all the other luxury/premium brands have a performance line. Cadillac V series, BMW Motorsport, Audi S-Line, M-B AMG, etc. All Acura has had in recent years was the Type-S. Which was what...a slight bump in horsepower and maybe braking but otherwise just cosmetic bits. Sold well, but I can't help but imagine how much more good would have been done for the brand if we had legitimate competition for Audi's S4 with a proper TL-S. Well. Type-S is coming back. Not just for the TLX, but for everything. They say a twin turbo V6 is in the cards. I hope they're right and they finally want to be a player in the market.

 

[Jinks]

because acura likes doing things backwards.

the rlx had the hybrid sh-awd before the supercar. makes sense. trickle up, then trickle down to the mdx and maybe tlx.

Spoken like a true car salesman. Sometimes you need to take a step back before you go forward.... Does anyone here even know how to haggle? Or does everyone just eat shit and pay msrp while making a car dealer thousands off of words?
Please tell me that your not comparing RLX technology as being the grandfather to a 200k sports car? Your blowing your commission right now.

 

[MasterNSXTech]

because acura likes doing things backwards.

the rlx had the hybrid sh-awd before the supercar. makes sense. trickle up, then trickle down to the mdx and maybe tlx.

You mean introducing the new platform at Honda before Acura? Accord first, then TL/TLX. Civic first, then ILX. CR-V first (and an all new one just released), then a new RDX. Only thing we get first is the MDX.

A juiced up version of that RLX powertrain was going to be the NSX before someone at Honda decided it would be grossly underpowered with that setup.

 

[MasterNSXTech]

Please tell me that your not comparing RLX technology as being the grandfather to a 200k sports car? Your blowing your commission right now.

There are actually quite a few things the RLX SH-AWD has that you can find a version of in the new NSX. All to do with the electrification of the two cars. And he's not blowing any comission. There's no money to be made on the RLX. A dealer that can actually move one has to discount it so much, it's what a salesman would call a "mini deal" in terms of how much they'd make in comission.

 

[Jinks]

There are actually quite a few things the RLX SH-AWD has that you can find a version of in the new NSX. All to do with the electrification of the two cars. And he's not blowing any comission. There's no money to be made on the RLX. A dealer that can actually move one has to discount it so much, it's what a salesman would call a "mini deal" in terms of how much they'd make in comission.

I know there is no money to be made off of a RLX because I know that nobody buys them. I was referring to the NSX...
But for the record, that is like saying that this beautiful new GT3 stems back from technology taken from the boxster????? For real, this brand does not know this market. It shows everyday.

 

[powdbyrice]

Spoken like a true car salesman. Sometimes you need to take a step back before you go forward.... Does anyone here even know how to haggle? Or does everyone just eat shit and pay msrp while making a car dealer thousands off of words?
Please tell me that your not comparing RLX technology as being the grandfather to a 200k sports car? Your blowing your commission right now.

i'm a car guy before a car salesman. sorry, i should have added [/sarcasm] for those that dont speak internet. correct me if i'm wrong, but most companies use halo cars (not invisible sedans) to showcase tech that will eventually trickle down to "regular" vehicles.

Yes i did compare the 2. have you driven both on the track? not that you care to, but when you do lets chat.

You mean introducing the new platform at Honda before Acura? Accord first, then TL/TLX. Civic first, then ILX. CR-V first (and an all new one just released), then a new RDX. Only thing we get first is the MDX.

A juiced up version of that RLX powertrain was going to be the NSX before someone at Honda decided it would be grossly underpowered with that setup.

no, the introduction of the hybrid sh-awd on the RLX before the NSX. for a couple of years, honda got to test the hybrid system on a low volume production car, so i guess thats good for them. most of the population doesn't know that the RLX hybrid exists, so i guess they can make it sound all new. lol.

sadly for acura, availability of technology and the start of new generations hasn't been favorable.

hondas have carplay/android auto. pilot has a panoramic roof. all of those features have little appeal to me, but customers ask for them.

 

[MoreRPMs]

Pretty much all the other luxury/premium brands have a performance line. Cadillac V series, BMW Motorsport, Audi S-Line, M-B AMG, etc. All Acura has had in recent years was the Type-S. Which was what...a slight bump in horsepower and maybe braking but otherwise just cosmetic bits. Sold well, but I can't help but imagine how much more good would have been done for the brand if we had legitimate competition for Audi's S4 with a proper TL-S. Well. Type-S is coming back. Not just for the TLX, but for everything. They say a twin turbo V6 is in the cards. I hope they're right and they finally want to be a player in the market.

They can start by having a RWD platform to then build a proper sport sedan off of.

Does anyone here even know how to haggle? Or does everyone just eat shit and pay msrp while making a car dealer thousands off of words?

Before I even got a chance to haggle last month when attempting to purchase a MDX AWD w/Tech, we were so far apart on prices that there was no haggling necessary.

Me: "This is the end of the year, let's see what kind of a blowout price you can offer..."
Sales mgr: "Your price is invoice (48,000 on a 51,000)"
Me {laughing to self, in total disbelief}: "$50K cars don't have only a $3000 markup"
Him: "I can show you the invoice"
Me: "Invoices are bullshit, and only show 20% of the picture, whereas they used to - before the proliferation of car pricing on the 'net - tell one more than half the 'story' "

Same thing at a Cadillac dealer:
Salesman: "The car industry has changed. It's moved to a one price business like Carmax. I can move a few hundred {on brand new $51,000 XT5}, but a few thousand? I just don't have that kind of profit. I used to be a general manager at so-and-so, and the whole car buying business has changed."
Me {dumbfounded, thinking to self : "are these salespeople/managers this stupid, or are they just bad liars?"} "That's impossible. From a business standpoint a $50,000 product does not have the same gross profit as a $6500 TV. Goodbye."

Some here might be impressed (sort of) by a 5% discount on a $200K NSX; I'd say that's a drop in the bucket compared to a real discount. (e.g. was at Lambo dealer just looking around in late 90s, and salesman mentioned around $70,000 off on new Diablo roadster. Sticker of car was high 200s, IIRC.)

Currently, new Accords and Camrys are good buys with 18 to 20% off, and 20 + % off, respectively. Both brand new '17s. Five thousand on a $26K Accord, yet $3000 off on a twice as expensive, but built-on-the-same-platform MDX? Thanks, but no thanks.

 

[MasterNSXTech]

They can start by having a RWD platform to then build a proper sport sedan off of.


Before I even got a chance to haggle last month when attempting to purchase a MDX AWD w/Tech, we were so far apart on prices that there was no haggling necessary.

Me: "This is the end of the year, let's see what kind of a blowout price you can offer..."
Sales mgr: "Your price is invoice (48,000 on a 51,000)"
Me {laughing to self, in total disbelief}: "$50K cars don't have only a $3000 markup"
Him: "I can show you the invoice"
Me: "Invoices are bullshit, and only show 20% of the picture, whereas they used to - before the proliferation of car pricing on the 'net - tell one more than half the 'story' "

Same thing at a Cadillac dealer:
Salesman: "The car industry has changed. It's moved to a one price business like Carmax. I can move a few hundred {on brand new $51,000 XT5}, but a few thousand? I just don't have that kind of profit. I used to be a general manager at so-and-so, and the whole car buying business has changed."
Me {dumbfounded, thinking to self : "are these salespeople/managers this stupid, or are they just bad liars?"} "That's impossible. From a business standpoint a $50,000 product does not have the same gross profit as a $6500 TV. Goodbye."

Some here might be impressed (sort of) by a 5% discount on a $200K NSX; I'd say that's a drop in the bucket compared to a real discount. (e.g. was at Lambo dealer just looking around in late 90s, and salesman mentioned around $70,000 off on new Diablo roadster. Sticker of car was high 200s, IIRC.)

Currently, new Accords and Camrys are good buys with 18 to 20% off, and 20 + % off, respectively. Both brand new '17s. Five thousand on a $26K Accord, yet $3000 off on a twice as expensive, but built-on-the-same-platform MDX? Thanks, but no thanks.

Rear wheel drive?! Lol. Why don't we ask Honda a V8 while we're at it!

A 5% discount on the NSX is actually very good. Right now, it's absurdly good. If you think just because a $200k Diablo sold with a $70k discount means that a $200k NSX has anywhere near $70k of profit in it, you are dead wrong.

$5k off a $26k Accord. Actual invoice on that car is well over $21k. The dealer can still do it because there's more backend money in the deal for the car from American Honda. Dealer cash, holdback, and a couple other things can increase a discount amount. Right now, I have an absolute massive amount of incentives from American Honda on the RLX. I could sell you a $55k RLX for $45k and still make money. Invoice is nowhere near that low, but Honda is making up for it. Meanwhile, the MDX which sells much faster has way less incentives at the moment. If we took a $55k MDX, I'd be grossly in the red to sell it at $45k. Probably the lowest deal could do right now would be $50.5-51k. So their offer of $48k on a $51k sticker was really not leaving much on the table.

 

[powdbyrice]

$47 is cost on MDX AWD tech. For whatever reason, Acura doesn't pad any of their pricing.

 

[The King]

$47 is cost on MDX AWD tech. For whatever reason, Acura doesn't pad any of their pricing.

They certainly wouldn't want the dealer to make too much, that's why. Oh, and the 70K off on the Lambo comment. I think the salesman, if that is what he implied, had just been out back of the shop doing multiple rails.

 

[osus2k]

I predict a manufacterer rebate by summer if nsx still not moving

 

[Jinks]

Rear wheel drive?! Lol. Why don't we ask Honda a V8 while we're at it!

A 5% discount on the NSX is actually very good. Right now, it's absurdly good. If you think just because a $200k Diablo sold with a $70k discount means that a $200k NSX has anywhere near $70k of profit in it, you are dead wrong.

$5k off a $26k Accord. Actual invoice on that car is well over $21k. The dealer can still do it because there's more backend money in the deal for the car from American Honda. Dealer cash, holdback, and a couple other things can increase a discount amount. Right now, I have an absolute massive amount of incentives from American Honda on the RLX. I could sell you a $55k RLX for $45k and still make money. Invoice is nowhere near that low, but Honda is making up for it. Meanwhile, the MDX which sells much faster has way less incentives at the moment. If we took a $55k MDX, I'd be grossly in the red to sell it at $45k. Probably the lowest deal could do right now would be $50.5-51k. So their offer of $48k on a $51k sticker was really not leaving much on the table.

Ya know, RWD and a V8 is something Honda needs. Hyundai has V8's, Nissan has V8's, Lexus has V8's, etc. If only they built this car as a RWD twin turbo V8. Oh and actually Honda built a V10 in early nsx prototypes but then scrapped it. It is good because it was hideous. But they could certainly make a V8. They are just set in their ways of thinking that a 200 crank hp 4 banger engine is something that has performance. Sheesh....
As for paying sticker price on cars, I do not think I have ever done that. Been to dealers that won't budge. I walk and buy elsewhere.

 

[RSO 34]

#29 white was being sold privately for $185k on a $202k build. It had 3000 miles. Before it could be sold it was immediately traded in. Let's see what it gets relisted at by a dealer.

 

[powdbyrice]

if its the car that i'm thinking of, it was traded in for a silver one.

our 1st white one is now matte silver with various subtle exterior mods.

 

[MoreRPMs]

$5k off a $26k Accord. Actual invoice on that car is well over $21k. The dealer can still do it because there's more backend money in the deal for the car from American Honda. Dealer cash, holdback, and a couple other things can increase a discount amount. Right now, I have an absolute massive amount of incentives from American Honda on the RLX. I could sell you a $55k RLX for $45k and still make money. Invoice is nowhere near that low, but Honda is making up for it. Meanwhile, the MDX which sells much faster has way less incentives at the moment. If we took a $55k MDX, I'd be grossly in the red to sell it at $45k. Probably the lowest deal could do right now would be $50.5-51k. So their offer of $48k on a $51k sticker was really not leaving much on the table.

First, you're not a tech, are you? You sound like you work in the finance office of a dealer to me. Secondly, if most MDXs are sold with, as you say, such razor-thin profit, where then does the owner come up with the capital to pay the managers $150 to $300K a year....from the lucrative service department?

They certainly wouldn't want the dealer to make too much, that's why. Oh, and the 70K off on the Lambo comment. I think the salesman, if that is what he implied, had just been out back of the shop doing multiple rails.

It was near the end of the model year. Just like a new '97 NSX that was sitting all year in the showroom, and a friend was offered a price in the $62 neighborhood on a 88,700 car.

$47 is cost on MDX AWD tech. For whatever reason, Acura doesn't pad any of their pricing.

There is zero chance that the true cost of a $50,000 vehicle is a few thousand below that. Zero. I'll wager any amount on that.

 

[RSO 34]

There is $30k total room to negotiate on a fully loaded 2017 NSX. By the summer $15k under msrp should be standard as these won't be moving off the showroom floors over the winter.

 

[osus2k]

So if I could equip a stripper NSX right at the 165 range and get 15 off it's a strong consideration at A 150k. i'm gonna sit back and watch the market

 

[RSO 34]

So if I could equip a stripper NSX right at the 165 range and get 15 off it's a strong consideration at A 150k. i'm gonna sit back and watch the market

The $30k gap is on a fully loaded one because of the options. A bone stock one has about $11k at the moment.

 

[Jinks]

Seems about right. The rear spoiler, carbon roof, carbon engine cover, and other bits look pretty cheesy to me. Definitely not worth asking price or "MSRP" (master-salesman-required-price):biggrin: