Where are all the Production deliveries ??

[garudatwo]

and the i8 is up 104% year on year to 55 units in Sept. I don’t understand
why this car sells. It’s such an awkward design. BMW does a 3 cylinder turbo for $150K and people buy it.
the AMG GT I get, its got the looks, the engine and the speed...

Must be due to the $163k roadster being available.

 

[NZNick]

Someone was asking about sales numbers in Japan - not sure if it was on this thread or one of the others.

I stumbled across this - it combines sales & recall stats in one:

• Recall report number: outside -2715
• Notification date: September 6,
  Heisei 30 date: September 7, Heisei 30

Recall of NSX




Overview

Fault site (part name)

① auxiliary brake light (high mount stop lamp)

② Fuel unit (fuel tank)



Structure, apparatus or performance condition and its cause which it considers to be in a nonconformity standard

① In the auxiliary brake light, there are things where the printed wiring is interfered with the screw fixing the board due to vibration during running, because the position setting of the printed wiring of the internal board is inappropriate. Therefore, the insulation treatment of the printed wiring is broken, and when the brake operation is performed in this state, the power supply circuit is short-circuited, the fuse is blown, lighting of the in-meter warning lamp, warning indication of the multi information display, auxiliary braking light and brake light May become unlit or the engine may not be able to start.

Improvement plot
(2) In some resin left and right fuel tanks, due to inadequate setting of welding equipment, there are some cases where the joint surface of the crossover inlet connecting the left and right fuel tanks is partially missing. Therefore, due to vibrations or the like during traveling, the joint surface may be peeled off and fuel may leak.

Improvement plot


Contents of remedial measures

① Replace the auxiliary brake light with a countermeasure.

② Replace the left and right fuel tanks with good products.



Measures to make automobile users and automobile disassembly maintenance operators publicize

· User: Notify by direct mail etc.
· Automobile Disassembly Service Provider: Posted in the Journal published by Nichiren Contract.
· For improved vehicles, attach a sticker No. 2715 outside near the door striker at the driver's side door opening.





Coverage

Car name	Type expression	Common name	Range of car chassis number of the target car and production period	Number of target vehicles	Remarks
Honda of America	CAA-NC 1	NSX	NC1-1000001 to NC1-1000256 August 8, Heisei 28 - March 22, Heisei 30	253​	① 153 ② 253
NC1-1100001 to NC1-1100126 March 1, Heisei 30 through June 11, Heisei 30	109​	② 109
	(Total 1)	(1 vehicle model in total)	(Scope of the whole production period) August 8, Heisei 28 - June 11, Heisei 30	(Total 362)​	① 153 ② 362

<tbody>
</tbody>

• 
  [*=left]* Part of the scope of coverage includes vehicles that are not subject to renovation.

Looks like 362 cars sold in Japan in the period 08/08/16 - 06/11/18, with 109 sold in the period March - June 2018 (must have been a large % of the production).

NB - when I preview this, the numbers in the chart are perfectly aligned - when I save / post, they go askew.... sorry.

 

[Craigy]

Must be due to the $163k roadster being available.

+1

Still only 55 cars. Virtually nil for a new release like the roadster.

BMW attracts a more affluent following than Acura, and the koolaid is much stronger. There will be people who buy it simply because it's the most expensive BMW convertible they can buy.

Also BMW uses a ton of incentives to move these cars.

 

[powdbyrice]

In terms of performance cars, Acura and MB/AMG are the ones who dont have followers who are drunk off the KoolAid.

 

[Valkyrie Pilot]

Maybe something like this? (and if they do some sorta front refresh)...

Hey Vf - I'm back after running for Congress and spending 80 hours a week kissing hands and shaking babies. I love what you did here and was a bit disappointed both in Acura for missing the opportunity to clean up and lower the front end and in our fellow Primers for reacting hardly at all to your genius photo shopping. Let's keep stirring it up! Maybe Acura will take notice. Can you post what you sent me a while back? (C7 ish front)

 

[Valkyrie Pilot]

You are onto something--Acura completely abandoned the nostalgia factor with its polarizing NC1 design. Had Acura just made the exterior pay homage to NA1-2 like Ford did with the 06 GT to the late 60s GT40, they would have been able to tap into the original buyers and those that never got one but wanted one. They would have been able to capture the imagination, hearts and minds of thousands of more buyers than they did with NC1. Especially if it just came equipped w a high reving NA V6. If Acura came out and said "look, we are targeting the Porsche GT3, we are extremely light weight, rev to 9K RPM, and handle like we are glued on rails and cost $110K" it would sell at a healthy clip. Not sure they would need to charge $156K base like the NC1 because R&D costs would have been much lower...focusing on engine supremacy and chassis dynamics instead of battery packs and earth dreams...

I like this point though it has been made before. The way they should have approached it was to update the NSX like Chevy did in updating the Corvette from the C6 to the C7. The C7 does a nice job of updating the C6 while keeping its essence. The analogy is very good because the C6 Corvette has many design aspects in common with the first gen NSX...

The new NSX design sort of attempts a similar update with the move from glass hatch to flying buttresses which is great but it loses the proportions of the original (low cowl with short front overhang and long tail) and by adding the hanging headlights, thereby losing the original's essence. I like the jewel eye headlights on the NC1 but they needed to remain on top of the car hood like the original (or like the 458 for example) to keep the continuity of design. I am only talking about adding 3 inches to the tail and changing the hood and front fascia which are mostly cosmetic. These changes, along with another 50 hp would ignite sales to at least 100 a month IMO. This would make the project viable to introduce new options including a RWD non-hybrid, convertible, and Type R. Without at least some sales success, I am afraid it will wither on the vine and become a repeat of the NA1 and NA2.

 

[Mogami]

I was told the 2019 Euro spec Honda NSX has a different new turbo(same as the ones in the 2019 NSX GT3 EVO).

Acura NSX didn't get the new turbo?

 

[Viper Driver]

I was told the 2019 Euro spec Honda NSX has a different new turbo(same as the ones in the 2019 NSX GT3 EVO).

Acura NSX didn't get the new turbo?

It does have a new turbo but it's also got some new euro-spec emissions stuff that made it necessary. The two things cancel each other out on the new cars. I had a Honda engineer along with me for a drive at NSXPO and he mentioned it. I asked if we could buy and bolt in the new ones on an older car, and he said it would work but it'd be pretty damned expensive.

 

[Gondo89]

If Honda made all the changes you describe (cosmetic plus Power bump) I agree they
would sell a lot more. I’m starting to look at Honda differently lately. It seems they know they lost
their glory days and are indeed trying to get them back. They haven’t succeeded just yet but they are definitely trying.
There are some people inside Honda fighting for greatness but lots of internal forces are apparently in their way.
They havent unleashed the full power of Honda engineering sorcery just yet...

 

[neuronbob]

If Honda made all the changes you describe (cosmetic plus Power bump) I agree they
would sell a lot more. I’m starting to look at Honda differently lately. It seems they know they lost
their glory days and are indeed trying to get them back. They haven’t succeeded just yet but they are definitely trying.
There are some people inside Honda fighting for greatness but lots of internal forces are apparently in their way.
They havent unleashed the full power of Honda engineering sorcery just yet...

This. Having met folks from Acura/Honda, I can say that there are many car enthusiasts...no, car nerds in-house who want to get the job done. There is hope!

 

[Valkyrie Pilot]

This. Having met folks from Acura/Honda, I can say that there are many car enthusiasts...no, car nerds in-house who want to get the job done. There is hope!

Good to hear! They just need to get back to their roots and not let the accountants have the last say. This was always a business based on passion, not sales and stock price.

 

[gobble]

she went to faraday future.

I read today that Faraday is laying off much of it's workforce. She might not get the chance to design an ugly car over there too.

 

[Heavymetals]

I read today that Faraday is laying off much of it's workforce. She might not get the chance to design an ugly car over there too.

I hope she cashed that signing bonus and turned down the stock options.

 

[Valkyrie Pilot]

I read today that Faraday is laying off much of it's workforce. She might not get the chance to design an ugly car over there too.

Does she get too much criticism? I think she did well with what she was given by Minami:
http://www.autonews.com/article/201...aim-to-get-honda--back-in-sync-with-the-times

 

[Valkyrie Pilot]

100% fact in which herein lies the inherent problem. It was Minami's originally penning that caused this irreparable predicament that lost a lot of existing US marketshare. What Minami thought would be gold is not revered in the USA like it is there. A proper designer would not have designed to what he or she likes or gets excited about (that's an artist), but rather designed to what sells for the targeted demographic plain and simple. After spending many summers in Japan I can attest to this phenomenon that 40-55 year olds there grew up being obsessed with American culture...that was our hay day to them-Levi's, Elvis, Harley's, Michael Jackson, Cindy Crawford, McDonald's, Brooke Shields, etc. But the sobering reality is this...if Americans want American muscle, guess what Acura, they will buy an American-made muscle car...not a Japanese car (or any other foreign built) that gets its inspiration/influence from American muscle cars.

To contrast, the simple brilliance of what Okuyama did with the first gen was take his inspirational lines from what was highly coveted back then, but unobtainable to many (the Italians machines). It was akin to Prometheus stealing fire from the gods and giving it to mere mortals. Minami did the opposite, he took fire we already had and tried to repackage it, and so far it hasn't worked (c'est la vie 3 units).

I think they thought Michelle would be a good fit because the story goes "she grew up in her father's garage and developed a love for classic American muscle" so the decision-makers at large probably felt confident she would carry the torch from the fire Minami had started [LINK] to fruition. And she did exactly what she was supposed to do to give credit where credit is due. And sales today are not a result of her doing imo, nor marketing entirely for that matter either, instead it boils down to the fact that you just can't fix a flawed concept: a design intended to express American muscle reproduced, as interpreted w/Japanese taste (vs just simply expressing its Gen 1 predecessor) no matter how hard you try. If Minami's concept was right, this car should at least be flying off the shelves in Japan...but it's not...because to them it is not authentic American. So a double-shot to the foot.

...Americans in todays market are still very interested in "affordable Italian"...not repackaged American nor overt deviation from its predecessor en masse. You might also find it interesting to know that it was him who insisted on keeping the beak on their lineup during those years where they lost traction.

I think you provide a great analysis here VF.

I also think Honda first misdiagnosed the reason the NA1 and NA2 failed to sell in good numbers and then they got caught up with copying Audi (hanging headlights, short rear overhang) after they hit market gold with the R8. (And Audi is currently the closest equivalent to Acura as an automaker of mass produced passenger vehicles moving into the exotic mid-engine sports car space.) But the original was not a follower, it was a trailblazer. Yes it had a short, low nose and classic "Coke bottle" shape (bulges over the wheels and tightened waist between them). But it also had:
- Long Tail
- Integrated Rear Spoiler
- Rounded Front (tapered fenders ahead of front wheels)
- Glass Canopy Back Window (not new but unseen on mid-engine cars)

These styling features allowed it to be unique and fresh but also had enough in common with mid-engine exotics of the day such that the NSX was often referred to as a Japanese Ferrari.

So why did the NA1 and NA2 struggle to sell?

THE DIAGNOSIS:

PREMISE:
The fact that NA1 and NA2 sold in small numbers was not because there was something wrong with them. They were great cars and they changed the exotic car market forever. With the NSX, Acura even made Porsche go back and reinvent their standard bearer, the 911. The NSX had great style and it was really unlike anything we had seen before. As we know, the driving experience was excellent and the critics gave it rave reviews. The reason the car struggled to sell was not that it was not wonderful or beautiful.

ANALYSIS:
In my opinion it failed in the market place:
1. Approx 40% because the car became under-powered over time as the bar kept rising and the design did not plan for performance bumps every year (shrink wrapped engine bay). This had the effect of cornering Honda because any major performance increase would have required re-designing the car to expand the engine bay which would have been very expensive on a car that is barely selling.
2. Approx 20% because the car became expensive - especially relative to its performance (thereby compounding problem 1) and its lack of pedigree.
3. Approx 20% because the competition stiffened up (e.g Ferrari 355 actually handled and had an even higher specific output screaming NA engine).
4. Approx 10% because the interior failed to become luxurious and incorporate fashionable design updates which was needed from the beginning but became crucial over time due to the market's improvements and focus in this area.
5. Approx 5% because the car struggled to generate ultimate passion in its style and exhaust sound. Starting out, it was acceptable but it needed to improve in this area by the first major model update.
6. Approx 5% because Acura branding was lacking panache and nothing else in the lineup even came close to the NSX in terms of price or performance.

CONCLUSION:
I believe if these had been addressed on a yearly basis, they would have had the sales to justify a new model update by at least 1997 which would have continued to breathe life into the product line (e.g. Nissan GT-R). Yes they made improvements every year. But these were mostly engineering tweaks and did not significantly improve the power and overall driving experience.


So how did they do on the NC1?

1. They addressed the design planning for power increases but they have not taken advantage of it yet. I give it a "C".
2. The value proposition is good but not great for the performance so far. I give it a "B-".
3. The competition is very stiff but they have a unique product niche. I give it an "A-".
4. The interior is nice but the materials are a bit cheap, lacking in ergonomics and lacking in practical storage areas. I give it a "C-"
5. The body has some nice aggressive touches and the exhaust sound is good but neither are the top of the market and packed with passion. I give it a "C+".
6. Branding today has the same struggle as before. I give it a "D".

This all leads me to believe that they misdiagnosed the reason the reasons the first gen cars failed to sell and so they are making the same mistakes again. It was not that the NA1 had too much rear overhang!

Plus without any connection it to the original car's essence (proportions), they are starting over with a virtually brand new product line which means they aren't going to get many previous NSX owners nor many of the kids that grew up in the 1990's, obsessed with the original. The car's name is not enough to bring them in.

That is why I am suggesting more power, more passion and more connection to the original. Chevy has a good blueprint with the changes from C6 to C7. Its not too late to correct course on the NC1. Honda needs to commit to making improvements that can be felt and seen EVERY YEAR. And adding colors is not enough. But if they are in denial of the facts, they will never understand what needs to be done or have the courage to do the hard things that it takes to succeed.

A picture is worth a thousand words:

 

[lucky]

So interesting release on the new R8 today and all I can say is ugh - my god they keep making that uglier yet it will continue to sell... I am totally on board with getting an NSX NC1 next spring (timing) because frankly, the build quality, reliability and just great use of every honda product I've owned beckons me. compared to the R8 the NSX is drop dead gorgeous without being comedically silly like a new lambo or f car.. regardless of the .1 slower time it might make mushing my cerebral cortex every now and then, I can't blink that fast so really, thats not it for me as a dealbreaker. TBH the only reason the original had such a long butt was the trunk in the first place and if you look at F cars of that time (F355) they bear NO resemblance to the F488 now so comparing a 30 yr old design and expecting it to arch forward is a bit of a stretch for any critic or journalist... countdown on to acquisition time its the customer experience that really destroyed the sales, the other players have that down pat... sigh...

 

[Mogami]

From the visit to PMC, it looks like most of the 2019 NSX was ordered in orange. only 400 has been sold in Japan

 

[Valkyrie Pilot]

So interesting release on the new R8 today and all I can say is ugh - my god they keep making that uglier yet it will continue to sell... I am totally on board with getting an NSX NC1 next spring (timing) because frankly, the build quality, reliability and just great use of every honda product I've owned beckons me. compared to the R8 the NSX is drop dead gorgeous without being comedically silly like a new lambo or f car.. regardless of the .1 slower time it might make mushing my cerebral cortex every now and then, I can't blink that fast so really, thats not it for me as a dealbreaker. TBH the only reason the original had such a long butt was the trunk in the first place and if you look at F cars of that time (F355) they bear NO resemblance to the F488 now so comparing a 30 yr old design and expecting it to arch forward is a bit of a stretch for any critic or journalist... countdown on to acquisition time its the customer experience that really destroyed the sales, the other players have that down pat... sigh...

Congratulations on your countdown. Very exciting.

Yeah I saw the 2019 R8 and its an interesting design but not beautiful or even that exotic. I blame the hanging lights for most of its ugly face.

I am not sure if I agree about the reason the NA1 had a long tail because the NC1 also has a trunk behind the engine. And regarding the 355/488 comparison, I agree they are quite a bit different but I also think they have a lot in common: the overall proportions, long low front with lights on top of hood, short rear overhang. They are both unmistakable as Ferrari's.

 

[vf2ss]

Hey Vf - I'm back after running for Congress and spending 80 hours a week kissing hands and shaking babies. I love what you did here and was a bit disappointed both in Acura for missing the opportunity to clean up and lower the front end and in our fellow Primers for reacting hardly at all to your genius photo shopping. Let's keep stirring it up! Maybe Acura will take notice. Can you post what you sent me a while back? (C7 ish front)

Hey Valk! Great to see you back...it's been awhile

I don't remember that version...was it this one?

sidenote: I'd kinda prefer if they got rid of the point at the front and rear of the car altogether.

 

[nsx878]

That's a great clean sleek look.......

 

[Gondo89]

Hey Valk! Great to see you back...it's been awhile

I don't remember that version...was it this one?

sidenote: I'd kinda prefer if they got rid of the point at the front and rear of the car altogether.

Wow, what a visual difference. Looks like it’s actually related to NA1-2. Any chance for MY2020 they can just let the NC1 exist as a halo sports car and not be plagued with a “Diamond Pentagonal” grille...?

 

[Valkyrie Pilot]

Thanks VF!

That's pretty nice but I was referring to this one (though it still could benefit from getting rid of the hanging headlights):

 

[vf2ss]

^ Oh yeah, I remember that now...I had actually tweaked it further

but in reality...instead of just painting the beak, removing it instead would have made it much, much cleaner

but at this point it all just feels like barking at the moon :cold:

btw...i really appreciated your analysis in #2940

 

[gleibig]

^ Oh yeah, I remember that now...I had actually tweaked it further

but in reality...instead of just painting the beak, removing it instead would have made it much, much cleaner

but at this point it all just feels like barking at the moon :cold:

btw...i really appreciated your analysis in #2940

Red one looks great

 

[EuroBoutique]

The recall doesn't bother me or affect my trust with the nsx. Nothing has broken on me so being proactive is a + in my book. Go ahead and buy a lambo, mac, ferrari. I have to have an entire spare car/backup plan owning those. Only brand of sports car I have total trust is in my prior porsche cars but I see about a dozen a day just driving 10 minutes

Well said in some ways...few other exotic car options are going to have LESS issues. If you ever go to McLaren prepare for even more headaches!

Granted we never had a single issue with our Huracan. It could be attributed to luck, few miles driven, or just that it has some Audi DNA in there. The audio system system sometimes didn't boot up right away but those are small gripes.

Close friend bought a McLaren and same week the alarm shorted out and would not turn off and the windows has issues going up. So don't think the grass is greener o the other side. Our 458 has been trouble free except for the alarm system thus far but we've heard enough horror stories to know it's again probably just luck.

The NSX is still the most reliable car out there for this category.