which supercharger kit is the better deal for me?

[fuexiong]

I'm new to the scene and am wondering which kit would be the better deal? I'm looking to buy one asap. thank you.



https://www.facebook.com/groups/nsxowners/permalink/764712623724150/?sale_post_id=764712623724150

vs

https://www.facebook.com/groups/nsxowners/permalink/479619455566803/?sale_post_id=479619455566803

 

[texmorales]

I'm new to the scene and am wondering which kit would be the better deal? I'm looking to buy one asap. thank you.



https://www.facebook.com/groups/nsxowners/permalink/764712623724150/?sale_post_id=764712623724150

vs

https://www.facebook.com/groups/nsxowners/permalink/479619455566803/?sale_post_id=479619455566803

I currently run a BBSC kit right now and you need to get a more detailed breakdown of all the pieces you are getting to compare the two. At first glance the first one at $5k seems to be throwing in a few more items then the second one. But there are so many factors.

A BBSC Kit Includes:
- All parts from original kit
- Paxton Novi 1000 or 2000 Blower
- BASCH Drive Unit
- Billet Pulleys, Brackets, Clamps, Intake Elbows, etc.
- Typically various sizes of boost pulleys to get 3/6/9/12 psi
- All hoses, fittings, nuts and bolts
- Billet Coolant Tank with Coolant Cap (do you have the drilling template for the firewall?)
- Fuse Box Relocation Bracket
- Blow off valve
- Illustrated Color Installation Manual
- Comptech Steel 6 Groove Balanced Dampening Pulley (superior to the Billet crank pulley that came with kit) or get a custom dampened one made
- Aftercooler/Intercooler
- Catch Can
- Blow off valve, if so what kind
- Cone air filter and pipe

Extras Included (not part of original kit, but very useful):
- Spare spider gears
- Spare set of bearings
- Pre-cut Factory Fuel Rail Cover (keep the original uncut for return to stock)
- Drilled, Tapped Oil Pan with correct AN Fitting for Oil Return Line (so you can keep original stock)
- Fuel pump (minimum Walbro 255 but size according to goals along with injectors?)
- Engine management (standalone or FIC)
- Injectors

Good luck, feel free to shoot me a message if you have questions.

 

[peiserg]

I'm new to the scene and am wondering which kit would be the better deal? I'm looking to buy one asap. thank you.



https://www.facebook.com/groups/nsxowners/permalink/764712623724150/?sale_post_id=764712623724150

vs

https://www.facebook.com/groups/nsxowners/permalink/479619455566803/?sale_post_id=479619455566803

I don't have Facebook so if you can tell me what the ads look like maybe I can help you shed some light

 

[fuexiong]

Basch Supercharger
$5,000
Edgewater, Maryland


I have a Basch Supercharger with everything included for sale.
It will come with the Supercharger of course
A new tapped oil pan
Oil lines
Series 1 AEM EMS
RC injectors
Oil catch can
Different boost level pulleys
Coolant expansion tank
Supercharger and mounting bracket
Charge Piping
AEM wideband o2 sensors
New oil pan gasket
And a brand new Walbro 255 fuel pump from SOS
Asking 5,000 +PayPal fees and shipping

vs

This is a Basch Boost SC kit with a Paxton Novi 2000 Blower. It has a brand new driveshaft, new bearings and new spider gear. I have some extra spider gears to throw in.

Included is the AEM Series one EMS.

I can throw in my injectors as well at a negotiable price, that the AEM is tuned for if you want to cut down your tuning time.

The pulley is not labeled but I believe it's a 6psi pulley.

Everything works great. Measured at 3psi when tuned (boost leak on my intake) it put down 320whp on a 3.0L built engine

pretty much the ads w/o pictures

I don't have Facebook so if you can tell me what the ads look like maybe I can help you shed some light

 

[goldNSX]

I don't have FB either. The CTSC is a highly respected and valued system which sells for +-6k used. Basch SC system never come close to that amount. Just a view from another angle you might consider...

 

[RYU]

I'd recommend looking at something like the CTSC instead.

 

[peiserg]

1st one seems like a better deal. Comes with injectors and a fuel pump. I've always been partial to that type of supercharger System since I used to own one and it was extremely reliable. I had about 55000 miles on mine before I sold it. Having said that, I think five grand is a bit steep for a used bash system. Especially if there is no after cooler attached. I think it's worth in the 3500 to 4000 range tops. At that price it's worth it and you'd save a few thousand over a comptech system. Feel free to read my old posts detailing my experiences with the system before I went full retard on my car

 

[peiserg]

I'd recommend looking at something like the CTSC instead.

It might be helpful if you can provide him some reason behind a blanket statement. The comptech system is perfectly fine but not inherently any better than the other one

 

[RYU]

It might be helpful if you can provide him some reason behind a blanket statement. The comptech system is perfectly fine but not inherently any better than the other one

They all have their pros/cons. There are thousands of threads on NSXprime.com to support both sides...

however....

a google search for nsxprime.com ctsc yields 10,900 results.

a google search for nsxprime.com bbsc yields 2,250 results.

plenty of threads to read.

 

[jones83]

The CTSC would be the better option, but you seem to be against that. If I had to choose between the two choices I would see if either would be willing to drop the price and sell without the AEM Series 1. If either is willing to do that then you can use the cash saved to put towards a better standalone system.

I still think you will be in the $6k range when you are done.

 

[goldNSX]

The BBSC needs a good tuner to run safely while the CTSC lowboost is a bolt-on kit. The tuning adds to the total cost of ownership.

From my (weak) memory I recall more engine problems/blow-ups with the BBSC than the CTSC, related to SC or not.

 

[neuronbob]

Thanks for the reminder about SC kits. I’m probably a low boost CTSC guy when the time comes. The idea of bolting on a lot known for safe power increase is somewhat comforting.

 

[Lamchop168]

I have the CTSC low boost on my 03, no complaint. It's fast enough for me and very easy to maintain. No clue on the other brand since I never own them before.

 

[chewybaca96]

I am the poster of the second deal on FB. That was posted almost 2 years ago. It is still up for sale. To add to what I have to give a complete inventory I'll copy/paste from above and remove what I don't have.

- All parts from original kit
- Paxton Novi 2000 Blower
- BASCH Drive Unit
- Billet Pulleys, Brackets, Clamps, Intake Elbows, etc.
- boost pulley to get 6psi
- All hoses, fittings, nuts and bolts
- Billet Coolant Tank with Coolant Cap (do you have the drilling template for the firewall?)
- Fuse Box Relocation Bracket
- Blow off valve
- Illustrated Color Installation Manual
- Catch Can
- Cone air filter and pipe

Extras Included (not part of original kit, but very useful):
- Spare spider gears
- Spare set of bearings
- Drilled, Tapped Oil Pan with correct AN Fitting for Oil Return Line (so you can keep original stock)
- Fuel pump (minimum Walbro 255 but size according to goals along with injectors?)
- Engine management AEM EMS Series 1 Tuned for the included injectors
- Injectors

I have all of the above and have spoken with the poster of this thread directly about price negotiation. Hope this helps show what all is included.

 

[kookoo4nsx]

I think you will be disappointed with the sc power. Just go with a turbo. Turbo's at the same boost offer more HP, torque, no issues with heat soak like the super charger systems. Either way, more power is always better. Supercharger whine combined with a good exhaust does sound bad ass.

 

[peiserg]

Only issue with turbo is price point is way beyond a used bbsc.

There have been plenty of blown motors from bbsc and ctsc. Ive seen, with my own eyes, many of both in the science of speed shops over the years. I myself blew up my engine with the Basch boost. But that was after 50 plus thousand miles and can't really be folded with the blower itself.

 

[neuronbob]

I chose not to go turbo only because I wanted the greatest chance at long-term reliability, and CTSC low boost is a proven quantity.

There’s no doubt that turbo has more power at a given boost level and runs cooler than a SC, none at all. Not to mention, there are proven turbo setups (Angus, Lovefab, etc.).

Any application including maximizing NA power gives risk for engine harm. I’m just looking for the lowest likelihood of engine harm with FI. That’s why I posted my thread about low vs high boost CTSC.

 

[Hass]

Only issue with turbo is price point is way beyond a used bbsc.

There have been plenty of blown motors from bbsc and ctsc. Ive seen, with my own eyes, many of both in the science of speed shops over the years. I myself blew up my engine with the Basch boost. But that was after 50 plus thousand miles and can't really be folded with the blower itself.

Can you post more about your build and numbers? Thanks

 

[RYU]

There are many cases of CTSC engines that fail after boost. Of the ones documented it's usually due to a failing OEM paper head gasket on the early 3.0 years and heads lifting in the 3.2s. However the numbers don't lie... If I was to take a guess there are at least 20x or 30x maybe more CTSC NSXs out there than all other FIs combined. Whatever the real number is the failure percentage on a CTSC is much lower for 3 basic reasons.

1. It simply isn't a very powerful unit. It's 6-7psi of boost with only a 250 lbft flat torque curve. In other words it doesn't keep pushing and pushing until redline like a turbo or bbsc especially when an engine is most vulnerable at near redline.

2. You don't ever have boost spikes in any supercharged belt driven blower. Granted the wastegates are much better these days but the risk is still there.

3. As antiquated as the old comptech fueling solution is, it pretty safe almost to a fault where once it gets hot it pulls SO MUCH timing it basically has the output of an NA or worse but with high EGTs due to the richer mix. Watch my video on one way to solve this problem.

Each of these FI options have pros and cons. If I was to do it over I might consider a tiny twin turbo setup but again... So many many compromises. Packaging of a turbo is far from ideal on the NSX

 

[neuronbob]

So is there an agreed upon way to prevent head lift in the 3.2 engine? Checking the head bolts to ensure they are not stretched? That’ll add significantly to what’s billed as a bolt on solution in the CTSC. Please pardon my noobie question, just trying to learn. Searches lead to the aftermath of head lift and there is less emphasis on prevention.

 

[goldNSX]

There are many cases of CTSC engines that fail after boost. Of the ones documented it's usually due to a failing OEM paper head gasket on the early 3.0 years and heads lifting in the 3.2s. However the numbers don't lie... If I was to take a guess there are at least 20x or 30x maybe more CTSC NSXs out there than all other FIs combined. Whatever the real number is the failure percentage on a CTSC is much lower for 3 basic reasons.

1. It simply isn't a very powerful unit. It's 6-7psi of boost with only a 250 lbft flat torque curve. In other words it doesn't keep pushing and pushing until redline like a turbo or bbsc especially when an engine is most vulnerable at near redline.

2. You don't ever have boost spikes in any supercharged belt driven blower. Granted the wastegates are much better these days but the risk is still there.

3. As antiquated as the old comptech fueling solution is, it pretty safe almost to a fault where once it gets hot it pulls SO MUCH timing it basically has the output of an NA or worse but with high EGTs due to the richer mix. Watch my video on one way to solve this problem.

Each of these FI options have pros and cons. If I was to do it over I might consider a tiny twin turbo setup but again... So many many compromises. Packaging of a turbo is far from ideal on the NSX

I think we should divide it in two segments:
- standard low-boost CTSC setup
- high-boost CTSC with individual components/tuning

The times where the low-boost CTSC had their problems date back almost 10 years and began and ended with the Autorotor unit. Before and after that I'd call it very reliable as long people don't mess around with the standard setup.
The high-boost setup is in the responsability of the owner and his tuner. And that's where the bad stories origin from. It's not fair to transfer the high-boost failure rate to the low-boost setup. Most of the (quite rare) stories are with high-boost setups in 9 out of 10 cases, esp. if people are trying to stretch the limits of their NSX.
The low-boost configuration is safe and won't blow up your engine unless someone's trying to kill it but that guy would kill any car. More power induces more stress. The 3.0 might have a headgasket failure sooner than without the unit but the unit is not responsible for this per se, it's the driver who decides how to drive the car.
A blown headgasket is a minor failure compared to a major crankshaft failure you hear from high-boosted (turbo or SC) from time to time. But if you nearly double the power of the engine you have to take it into account that something is going to fail sooner or later.

For people like me who enjoy cruising around in the car with a small percentage of spirited driving (boost) and high demands for a trouble-free engine the low-boost CTSC is the safest way to go. 40k miles since install, still good *knocking on wood*.

 

[jwmelvin]

The low-boost configuration is safe and won't blow up your engine unless someone's trying to kill it but that guy would kill any car. More power induces more stress. The 3.0 might have a headgasket failure sooner than without the unit but the unit is not responsible for this per se, it's the driver who decides how to drive the car.

The stock NSX engine seems perfectly fine spending extended time between VTEC engagement and redline. Is that how you define trying to kill an engine? My 3.2 lifted the head with a bit of street driving, no track time.

It’s true that a head gasket is not so bad if you catch it early though a lifted head is a bit worse. I chose to replace rings and bearings and get a valve job when fixing mine.

I don’t think there’s much in the way of preventive measures to prevent head lift. One could proactively timesert the block but I doubt many people would go to the expense.

 

[Jinks]

The good thing in Neuronbob’s case is he has a later model car. I really,REALLY wish I changed my head gaskets on my 91 prior to boosting it. But leak down and compression was top notch. Ya just never know sometimes. Also, look at the bright side, the ctsc ditches the butterfly valves which also can cause engine failure.:wink:

 

[goldNSX]

The stock NSX engine seems perfectly fine spending extended time between VTEC engagement and redline. Is that how you define trying to kill an engine? My 3.2 lifted the head with a bit of street driving, no track time.

Low-boost or high-boost?

I've seen three stock 3.0 with bad headgaskets, one of the being driven very conservatively but not sure if correlated to the infamous coolant bottle leak or the TB service recently done.

Your statement is true. Honestly, with the CTSC I'm not squeezing it out to red-line very frequently due to existing speed limits and the fact that the CTSC offers enough torque which allows me to skip a gear change (like pulling only in 3rd than 2nd/3rd for example). And the other fact that I'm getting older... There are some videos on youtube how I'd define to kill an engine.

 

[jwmelvin]

Low-boost or high-boost?

Mine was (and is) low boost, and had all the original Comptech setup for fueling.

I believe there is one instance of a naturally aspirated 3.2L lifting a head reported on Prime. So, like you say about the 3.0L head gasket, it’s more that the SC exacerbated an underlying weakness.