Will electric cars be soon dinosaur?

[Joker]

I found this interesting article, but is is still debatable and it depends on how your country leader is willing to push it by increasing gas tax.

Maybe Honda will never produce NSX 2.0 because other automakers are scrapping plans for their hybrid and electric cars.

http://autos.aol.com/article/govern...d=maing-grid7|main5|dl8|sec1_lnk2&pLid=210709

 

[jond]

It seems like to me, right now, the math doesn't work.
You have $3-5,000 batteries that have to be replaced at 100,000 miles.
Add in a timing belt, water pump, and you now have cars with ZERO resale.
Nothing could be worse for the environment than cars that can only go 100,000 miles.

What's good for the environment. A 1970s diesel Mercedes that never dies.
What's bad for the environment. A 2012 Prius that will be in the junk yard in 5 years.

Currently, electric cars are another name for 'coal cars'.
When electric cars are another name for 'solar cars' they will make sense.

 

[Russ]

It seems like to me, right now, the math doesn't work.
You have $3-5,000 batteries that have to be replaced at 100,000 miles.
Add in a timing belt, water pump, and you now have cars with ZERO resale.
Nothing could be worse for the environment than cars that can only go 100,000 miles.

What's good for the environment. A 1970s diesel Mercedes that never dies.
What's bad for the environment. A 2012 Prius that will be in the junk yard in 5 years.

Currently, electric cars are another name for 'coal cars'.
When electric cars are another name for 'solar cars' they will make sense.

...or hydroelectric cars, nuclear cars, etc. And only then, when the energy density, economics, and total environmental impact of batteries bests petroleum fuels. At present it's not even close.

 

[Cap'n Carl]

It seems like to me, right now, the math doesn't work.
You have $3-5,000 batteries that have to be replaced at 100,000 miles.
Add in a timing belt, water pump, and you now have cars with ZERO resale.
Nothing could be worse for the environment than cars that can only go 100,000 miles.

What's good for the environment. A 1970s diesel Mercedes that never dies.
What's bad for the environment. A 2012 Prius that will be in the junk yard in 5 years.

Currently, electric cars are another name for 'coal cars'.
When electric cars are another name for 'solar cars' they will make sense.

...but the batteries DON'T cost $3-5k, and they normally last longer than 100k miles (they frequently go over 200k), and the cars aren't junk just because they need a battery.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

...but the batteries DON'T cost $3-5k, and they normally last longer than 100k miles (they frequently go over 200k), and the cars aren't junk just because they need a battery.

...and they can be recycled, and when broken down are inert and harmless to the environment, and are constantly decreasing in costs and energy storage potential...

 

[TURBO2GO]

Toyota itself buys back Prius batteries and recycles them. The 100K thing is pure fiction. Almost all go waaaaaay over that. With a million priii on the road, only a handful have had battery replacements. A new reaplecment with the trade-in is now roughly $900, not 5K. I specifically just had a service manager look it up.

 

[Ric]

Can the Prius still run without or with a non-functional or dead battery?

...but the batteries DON'T cost $3-5k, and they normally last longer than 100k miles (they frequently go over 200k), and the cars aren't junk just because they need a battery.

 

[V.Lats97nsx]

I'll jump on the battery wagon when NASA can send a shuttle into space with batteries, or a jetplane on batteries. Until then the only battery I believe in is the one in my phone

 

[Vega$ NSX]

If this is what you mean by going dinosaur...

 

[Russ]

Another interesting article:

Toyota drops plan for widespread sales of electric car

"The current capabilities of electric vehicles do not meet society's needs, whether it may be the distance the cars can run, or the costs, or how it takes a long time to charge."

Takeshi Uchiyamada, Toyota VP and Prius lead engineer, 9/24/2012.

 

[passline]

I hope not? I like to walk 18, but 27??

 

[Joker]

Since other automakers are going to drop the electric/hybrid cars, will Honda be going to drop hybrid NSX 2.0 before it can even produce?

 

[Mac Attack]

This was mentioned in the first article too. I agree pure electric is probably going to have to wait for awhile.

BUT... I have to admit I own a 3rd-gen Prius. How can any true car lover NOT like it? Everyone that rides in it is impressed (two of my "Car" friends bought their own afterwards), and the technology incorporated in it is incredible. Personally, I bought it because I'd rather put my money in the Japanese pockets than have it going to big oil businesses and the Middle East.

If they were junk, why would they have the highest resale values?

Like Turbo and others said, your costs and perception of hybrids aren't correct.


I recently took mine to Carolina Motorsports Park. In 100F heat on stock ECO 185-width tires, my Prius hit ~92MPH with the windows down and had an exit speed through our kink of ~85MPH. I did 110 miles that day in the heat, and averaged ~20MPG (and was the only one that didn't have to fill up :smile. I didn't have a transponder or record lap times, but a new Mini Cooper S and I were dead even through all but two straights.

Brakes are awesome. Tires sucked but didn't chunk. Everyone else at the track was impressed.

Dave

 

[TURBO2GO]

Since other automakers are going to drop the electric/hybrid cars, will Honda be going to drop hybrid NSX 2.0 before it can even produce?

You should stop grouping in hybrids and electrics, your article has nothing to do with hybrids, only pure electrics, nor do any of these other announcements have anything to do with hybrids. Hybrids are increasing in popularity because they can have a decided performance improvement over a standard car. NSX2 is using electrics for performance. Why would they change plans? You think someone like Honda that has been building hybrids for a decade is going to suddenly shift paths?

 

[TURBO2GO]

This was mentioned in the first article too. I agree pure electric is probably going to have to wait for awhile.

BUT... I have to admit I own a 3rd-gen Prius. How can any true car lover NOT like it? Everyone that rides in it is impressed (two of my "Car" friends bought their own afterwards), and the technology incorporated in it is incredible. Personally, I bought it because I'd rather put my money in the Japanese pockets than have it going to big oil businesses and the Middle East.

If they were junk, why would they have the highest resale values?

Like Turbo and others said, your costs and perception of hybrids aren't correct.


I recently took mine to Carolina Motorsports Park. In 100F heat on stock ECO 185-width tires, my Prius hit ~92MPH with the windows down and had an exit speed through our kink of ~85MPH. I did 110 miles that day in the heat, and averaged ~20MPG (and was the only one that didn't have to fill up :smile. I didn't have a transponder or record lap times, but a new Mini Cooper S and I were dead even through all but two straights.

Brakes are awesome. Tires sucked but didn't chunk. Everyone else at the track was impressed.

Dave

LOL... awesome Dave...

I've pretty much said what you've been saying for 10 years, if you are a true car guy you have to like the technology that is in a car like the Prius. It is amazing.

 

[flaminio]

Agree with TURBO2GO -- Hybrids will have a long future. Whether they are built for improved fuel economy like the Prius, or for improved performance like the NSX 2.0, they will be here.

All-electrics, however, could be a different story. This could be "Who killed the electric car?" all over again -- lots of conspiracy theories out there, but at the end of the day these cars just can't make it in the marketplace. Unless technology and/or infrastructure dramatically changes, they will remain niche vehicles.

A "hybrid" of the hybrids & electrics are Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles. I think the Prius PHEV is already on the market; hopefully more will come. These are best of both worlds vehicles -- you can do your commute entirely on electric power, and yet still drive to Tahoe for the weekend without fear of getting stranded.

I'm hoping my next DD is a PHEV -- indeed, if there were a PHEV Odyssey (at a reasonable price) I'd buy it today.

 

[Juice]

Agree with TURBO2GO -- Hybrids will have a long future. Whether they are built for improved fuel economy like the Prius, or for improved performance like the NSX 2.0, they will be here.

All-electrics, however, could be a different story. This could be "Who killed the electric car?" all over again -- lots of conspiracy theories out there, but at the end of the day these cars just can't make it in the marketplace. Unless technology and/or infrastructure dramatically changes, they will remain niche vehicles.

A "hybrid" of the hybrids & electrics are Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles. I think the Prius PHEV is already on the market; hopefully more will come. These are best of both worlds vehicles -- you can do your commute entirely on electric power, and yet still drive to Tahoe for the weekend without fear of getting stranded.

I'm hoping my next DD is a PHEV -- indeed, if there were a PHEV Odyssey (at a reasonable price) I'd buy it today.

This. Pure EVs simply lack the ability to fuel up and go anywhere without concern for how you will get there. Pure EVs lack the infrastructure and ability to to quickly refuel. Hybrids are the best of both worlds and can even adapt from performance to efficiency on the fly.

I think we will start seeing hybrids become the standard as they become cheaper to build and the tech becomes more familiar. They seem to be the modern equivalent of the shift from black and white television to the color standard; soon they will stop claiming "hybrid" as the MPG numbers will do the talking.

 

[Briank]

Can the Prius still run without or with a non-functional or dead battery?

Yes

 

[TURBO2GO]

Yes

And it still gets 35 MPG. LOL

 

[Osiris_x11]

can't compare to E/V to hybrid...

My ultimate "daily" would be a true hybrid: meaning bio-diesel for the stout powertrain & on-demand torque along w/ appreciable fuel-economy, coupled w/ an electric-assist (for city/stop-&-go & cruising), CNG functionality add'on if/when compelled to ring'out some extra MPG's & lower the cumulative diesel bill, and a plug-in capability for short/routine commuting. Integrate some solar-panels while we're at it for ancillary/auxiliary electrical usage. Yups...

 

[pvmike]

Tesla reveals Supercharger network it says will cover the US in two years; Model S fills up for free, always

http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/24/tesla-supercharger/#continued

At Tesla's event, CEO Elon Musk has finally taken the wraps off of its Superchargers which it has already set up at six locations in California, pictured in the map after the break. The company plans installations on "high traffic corridors across the US" over the next year, with units heading to Europe and Asia in the second half of 2013. According to Musk, the solar powered systems will put more power back into the grid than the cars use while driving. Oh, and for you Model S owners? You will always be able to charge at any of the stations for free. According to Musk, the economies of scale developed while building the Model S have helped it get costs down on the chargers, although he did not offer specifics.

During the event we also saw video of drivers charging their vehicles at stations today that Tesla apparently constructed in secret. They're using solar technology from (also owned by Musk) SolarCity, and can charge a Model S with 100 kilowatts good for three hours of driving at 60mph in about 30 minutes. Currently pushing 90kW, they could go as high as 120 in the future for even faster charging. Check the press release embedded after the break or Tesla's website for more details.

 

[TURBO2GO]

You forgot fuel cell...

 

[Vega$ NSX]

Battery is to MPG as Supercharger/Turbo is to HP

 

[TURBO2GO]

Tesla reveals Supercharger network it says will cover the US in two years; Model S fills up for free, always

http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/24/tesla-supercharger/#continued

Wow....

 

[BD]

The 100K thing is pure fiction. Almost all go waaaaaay over that.

OK, 120k miles, 150k miles. You still get the same result with couple extra years of usage.

The whole point is about what a hybrid car will do at the end of its life.