A question about putting 300bhp to the ground.

[EndLeSS]

hey hey,
Hope you guys can help me out on this question. Ok, we all know that the NSX puts out 290bhp, and I'm wondering what is the best way to put 300bhp TO THE GROUND. When this is taken in account for (I'm going by the 20% rule; Most cars lose 20% of their horsepower to the ground), so in order to put 300bhp to the ground, the NSX must put out around 360bhp.
Since the NSX displaces 3.2, the engine itself should be able to put out 320bhp (I mean, it is a Honda, and the engine is extremely efficient), so i guess only 40 bhp should be needed.
What is the best way to produce 300bhp to the ground? (NOT using superchargers, turbos, or NOS....I personally think these are too risky since the stock vehicle doesn't have them)
Any ideas? Thanks!

l8z

 

[David]

Well, if you figure a stock 3.2 puts 80% of its power to the ground, you are starting at 232. That means you need to increase hp by 68 hp or 30% and that is a LOT to ask of this engine. With headers, exhaust, cat bypass, cold air intake and revised engine management, you still won't make it. Cams, head work and Extrude Honing everything might get you close. Keep in mind that many of the forced induction engines put about that much power to the ground.

To go at it from another direction, you will need 375 hp (not 360) at the crank to make 300 hp at the wheels. Again, for comparison, the Comptech blower with exhaust, headers, etc. would be around 395-400. Good luck getting another 85 hp at the crank with bolt-ons; it would be tough to do without a near full-race type rebuild.

 

[EndLeSS]

Ok then, thanks for your info. This is more difficult than i assumed. I guess the best is with bolt-ons and such. One main idea of mine is that i would chose parts by Apexi, (they did make a stock bodied Skyline with their normal bolt ons do a 1/4mile of 8.47 seconds) but they don't make too much stuff for the NSX. I'll go check around some time.
Thanks again.

l8z

 

[maomaonsx]

Actually, the parts to make big HPs are out there, you'll just need to have enough spending power. The FEEL'S twin turbo NSX makes 600HP, the Gruppe M supercharged car without supporting mods(headers, exhaust, etc) makes 370hp, and the revolution N/A NSX makes at least 360hp. So, the bottom line is that, if you have money, everything is possible.

Also, Apexi doesn't make anything for the NSX.

------------------
Please visit my NSX tuning page! Mods, Japanese NSX related stuff, pics!
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Dojo/6073/index.html

 

[Lud]

20% drivetrain loss is probably too high for the NSX. It's more like 12%... or at least somewhere in the 10%-15% range.

 

[David]

Well, the last completely stock 3.0 I saw on a dyno put down 218 hp, which would be a 19% loss. It is not a perfectly linear realationship across all hp gains, but it is pretty close.

 

[David]

By the way, EndLeSS, you sound dead set against them, but you should check out some of the earlier posts on forced induction and NOS. If done properly - the Comptech kit, for example - I don't believe they impact reliability in any meaningful way. Also, if you have the Comptech stuff installed at a dealer, it should not affect your warranty. And it will put 300 hp the the wheels with all of the other bits attached. I was getting 340 hp at the wheels with my 3.0 motor.

[This message has been edited by David (edited 24 April 2000).]

 

[Lud]

Originally posted by David:
Well, the last completely stock 3.0 I saw on a dyno put down 218 hp, which would be a 19% loss.

That was a very weak car... perhaps there was even something wrong (even something minor like a dirty air filter or bad gas). It's much more typical to see 235-250 RWHP from the stock 3.0 cars

 

[EndLeSS]

maomaonsx: Yea, I guess yer right about $$ making more bhp, but i don't think those cars are street legal. Personally if you want to go ALL out, i'd go with Veilside who tuned a MK4 Supra to 1048bhp. The weaker version had *only* 640bhp. Top Secret got another Supra to hit 198mph. Of course, all of this stuff is wayyyyyy too crazy. Also, I'm suprised that such a famous tuner like Apexi doesn't make anything for the NSX. Thats interesting, considering they make a ton of stuff for Civics and Preludes.

Lud: I didn't know that NSX's lost such a small amount of power to the wheels. More efficient than i thought!!

David: I'm really against NOS(i don't believe that it's "real" horsepower), but turbos are ok for me. I'm a huge fan of the MK4 Supra, but I assume that relatively big engine upgrades(such as turbos) that aren't stock to the vehicle are risky. Damn you have a strong car. Bolt-ons imo aren't too big of an upgrade, and won't cause huge damage to the car if they screw up. And also, they're cheaper. I'll check up on Comptech.

Thanks again to all who responded!

 

[maomaonsx]

Endless: a lot of of the big name tuners don't make anything for the NSX simply because no one buys them since there are so little NSXs.

------------------
Please visit my NSX tuning page! Mods, Japanese NSX related stuff, pics!
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Dojo/6073/index.html

 

[Lud]

Originally posted by EndLeSS:
I didn't know that NSX's lost such a small amount of power to the wheels. More efficient than i thought!!

Thinking about it some more I guess it's hard to say what the loss is without an engine dyno. Perhaps many of the engines are putting out more than the rated 270 HP in which case they could indeed be losing closer to 20% and still dyno at say 240 RWHP...

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

I've asked Bruce Nomura (He specialized in Japs supercar). He work closely with RX7, Supra, NSX, Lexus whit specialty in RX7, and he praised them a lot performance-wise inspite of their reliability. He made 640 HP Supra, and yet, he said it's different car than NSX. Even though it's hard to make an NSX with that much power. They can be quicker than the Supra even without that monstrous Horse power.

 

[JChoice]

3.0's typically dyno in the 230-240 range with 3.2's in the 250 - 270 range. This of course, is to the wheels.

I think a header, intake, exh., chip will get you close to 300hp to the wheels on a 97+ 3.2L motor. Comptech recently got 290 to the wheels on a Y2K NSX with the H/I/E setup.

With a good driver, that should put you in the high 12's.