Advice on my situation with my NSX

[stevetwors]

I have a 92 with 150k miles. koni shocks, eibach springs, aftermarket headers (cant tell what manufacturer though), high flow cats, afermarket exhaust (again have no idea what manufacturer), some cone intake, flawless interior and very tastefully done red carbon fibre on interior panels, and a pioneer dvd + gps system (very, very nice).

its been in two accidents that were not my fault. i cant seem to avoid people running into me for some reason. both accidents did not affect the frame at all.

i had a cosmetic mishap when i first got the car that i took a claim out to fix.

so anyway, my insurer, Travellers, DROPPED me. apparently they have one of the strictest under writing guidelines. no more than 3 accidents in 5 years, REGARDLESS OF FAULT.

When I first got this car, it was definitely doable budget wise with insurance only $75 a month. Since then, its climbed to $147 a month. Now that I've been dropped, I've shopped around and the best price i can find is $200 a month.

This has been the tipping point. I can no longer "comfortably" afford this car every month. I miss taking my wife out to dinner more often.

Its a shame and its real sad, because this wasnt my fault, i guess its just a sign its time to move on, especially now that i have a son (he's 8 months old)

The problem is, I have no idea what the value of my car is now that its got 2 dings on the history report.

(The car looks spectacular, its in excellent condition.)

I'm worried I will not be able to sell it for at least the pay off amount of the loan.

This is really fucked up and not fair. People come along and smack into you and now your car is not worth nearly as much and you're in the hole debtwise.

 

[Cozmo]

Is it your daily driver? If so you couldn't try something like collector car insurance.

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

i just wanted to say that.

Some times you can get semi-classic insurance which would be cheaper.
Although the prices you are paying are extremely cheap compared to Europe.

 

[rbirling]

Can you stop driving it for a while and drop or carry minimal insurance? Or if it's paid off, you can carry liability only. If you only have accidents that are other people's fault, this would work. Of course there are no guarantees for the future.

 

[warrenw]

$2400 / year does not sound too unreasonably high, depending....
Insurance companies do not take fault into account as much as number of claims. Did you make claims against your insurance? If so, that is your problem.
Cars like the NSX are high to insure because of what they are. High performance sports cars. A 1992 Honda civic with the same mileage is not as much of a risk because of 1. its value, 2. the type of car it is.
High value, high performance cars are simply more to insure. Some insurance companies even take in the cost to repair a car before setting the cost to insure. It really is a case of liability and probability.
Other cost issues: your age. Own outright or making payments, your driving record, etc.
I would look into classic car insurance. It can be less. but you are limited to how far and often you drive it.
I once had classic insurance on a 1966 mustang in showroom shape. My police noted a "Club" anti-theft device"must be used. And public parking lots were a maximum of 2 hours. Can't drive it to work, during peak traffic hours etc. I could essentially drive it to car shows. However it was $10.00 / thousand dollar (value of the car)... You need an apprasial as well.
I will ask my sister about the ability for a company to drop you as a client. She sells insurance and she tells me that every company is different. You may have some rights to remain a customer.
You may want to use an insurance broker to find you the best rate, policy for the car.

 

[tbromley]

Hold on thar Babaloui - I don't know who or what insurance you have but 2400 a year for insurance is waaaaaay high. Hell if I had to pay that I don't know if I'd have bought an NSX.

Now this fellow may be young - and that could be a big part of it cause I pay less than 800 a year for full coverage and 1000 deductable on colision. I'm 60 and I've been with State Farm for 20 years at least. Matter of fact once you are with State Farm for 10 years without any accidents I got a letter that said as long as I paid my premiums I'd never be cancelled! Obviously that would be hard but sometimes it doesn't pay to claim things on your insurance.

Check State Farm. They are great - I could go on.

Now as far as what your car is worth - tell us more about the maintenance - like when the TB/WP/hoses were done last and what you've done to the car cause that has a lot to do with the value of the car!

On the surface anytime there is body damage it raises questions to others - pictures would be very good in this situation - since all the accidents came on your watch so to speak. So give us all the specs and we'll work thru this - all of us together.

Let me throw this out there - a 92 out of snap ring range - with maintenance up to date - a few decent mods -nice interior with 150k -
I'd say it would be worth somewhere around 23k.....something like that. Without any more info than we have here.

 

[Dtrigg]

I don't think you're going to like to hear my opinion, and that's it, only my opinion. If you're struggling to pay $200 a month for insurance, perhaps it's time you sell the car. I understand you might be upside down on the car, but perhaps it's better to bite the bullet, cut your loss and get rid of it. You want to take your wife out to dinner and you have a new eight month old. Depends on your priorities. It's a car. You could always get another one in the future. What would happen if you had a serious problem with the car? Could you afford the repair bill? Doesn't seem like you could. Sell it and spend time with your wife and new baby. These are difficult times for lots of people and many are forced to make difficult decisions.

Good luck to you with what ever decision you make.

 

[Cap'n Carl]

I agree completely with what Dtrigg said, and would add that things may be better financially in the future, when you can buy an even nicer car.

 

[Liquid]

Adding my 2c which is if you are that close to financial breakeven, with a wife and an 8 month old child to look after, plus you have a loan on the car, then you are at the completely wrong point in your life to have a 2 seater sports car. Sell the car, take care of your family and yourself financially, and you'll be back when the time is right.

Now on to the point of your post which is what is the car worth. I'm guessing something in the $20-22k range depending on maintenence history and overall condition. 150k miles is a lot and the aftermarket stuff won't add much, if any, value to your car.

Good luck.

 

[Big_D]

I would probably sell the car also. Since summer is the best time to sell a sports car I would wait till mid May and then post an ad here and on autotrader for around $23K. You could use the next couple of months putting it closer to stock if you have any of the original parts. Selling the aftermarket stuff here will help you recoup some more money.

Enjoy your life and get another later...your wife will be thankful that you made the right choice for the family.

Best of Luck :smile:

 

[tbromley]

I agree with everyone - obviously if you decide to sell the car the money you save not paying for insurance can go to paying off the car if your upside down - cut your losses now - stop the bleeding as soon as you can; ie paying off the car if selling it won't do that, and get on with your life. No one here is going to give you advice to keep that car.

To the advice about how best to sell the car - let's face it an NSX with 150k miles is not going to be the easiest one out there to sell. So if you strip the mods off the car and return it to stock I think you have just taken one more thing away from a possible advantage of selling the car. You don't even know who made 1/2 the mods. They are going to sell on Market fast either and may be one more reason why someone might choose your car over one with NO mods at all. Plus you gotta do all that work yourself to make it worth doing - can you do that - do you have the OEM stuff. We don't even know that so how can we advise you on how to do that - not a good idea and completely bad if you have to pay someone to remove the mods and restore the car - absolutely makes no sense.

When you put this car up for sale - make sure you take GREAT pictures of the car! Not just adequate - but great and as many as you can - considering the lighting and get all your facts out! Put it everywhere you can think of Autotrader, cars.com, craigs list (although I don't think much of Craig's list), the local paper, and you might even consider ebay.

At worst if you can't sell the car - stop the insurance. You have it on your other cars anyway. That will save you at least 200 a month - pay off the car with it - faster and just keep trying to sell. Eventually it will sell - you have to make it as attractive a buy as possible - pictures often times makes all the difference. Having your maintenance up to date is the other biggy and you haven't even mentioned where you are with that.

That's about all anyone can tell you at this point - Good luck.

 

[Big_D]

I agree with everyone - obviously if you decide to sell the car the money you save not paying for insurance can go to paying off the car if your upside down - cut your losses now - stop the bleeding as soon as you can; ie paying off the car if selling it won't do that, and get on with your life. No one here is going to give you advice to keep that car.

To the advice about how best to sell the car - let's face it an NSX with 150k miles is not going to be the easiest one out there to sell. So if you strip the mods off the car and return it to stock I think you have just taken one more thing away from a possible advantage of selling the car. You don't even know who made 1/2 the mods. They are going to sell on Market fast either and may be one more reason why someone might choose your car over one with NO mods at all. Plus you gotta do all that work yourself to make it worth doing - can you do that - do you have the OEM stuff. We don't even know that so how can we advise you on how to do that - not a good idea and completely bad if you have to pay someone to remove the mods and restore the car - absolutely makes no sense.

When you put this car up for sale - make sure you take GREAT pictures of the car! Not just adequate - but great and as many as you can - considering the lighting and get all your facts out! Put it everywhere you can think of Autotrader, cars.com, craigs list (although I don't think much of Craig's list), the local paper, and you might even consider ebay.

At worst if you can't sell the car - stop the insurance. You have it on your other cars anyway. That will save you at least 200 a month - pay off the car with it - faster and just keep trying to sell. Eventually it will sell - you have to make it as attractive a buy as possible - pictures often times makes all the difference. Having your maintenance up to date is the other biggy and you haven't even mentioned where you are with that.

That's about all anyone can tell you at this point - Good luck.

I am pretty sure the finance company requires you to have insurance regardless of whether you drive it or not.

Regarding the mods. It all depends whether he can do any of the work himself. I agree it doesn't make sense to pay someone to do it. If he has the OEM stuff and some time to do it then its a way to get some money back out of the car. If I ever had to sell mine, I would take all the mods off and sell them seperately.

I agree that the mods he has will help sell the car, as long as the price is right. But you basically give the mods away.

 

[stevetwors]

I don't think you're going to like to hear my opinion, and that's it, only my opinion. If you're struggling to pay $200 a month for insurance, perhaps it's time you sell the car. I understand you might be upside down on the car, but perhaps it's better to bite the bullet, cut your loss and get rid of it. You want to take your wife out to dinner and you have a new eight month old. Depends on your priorities. It's a car. You could always get another one in the future. What would happen if you had a serious problem with the car? Could you afford the repair bill? Doesn't seem like you could. Sell it and spend time with your wife and new baby. These are difficult times for lots of people and many are forced to make difficult decisions.

Good luck to you with what ever decision you make.

how dare you! you dont know me! stop judging me asshole!

just kidding

nah you're totally right. its very hard to man up and face facts sometimes. this will be the 3rd major time in my life where i had to be responsible and make a big decision. first time was when i had to move from california back home to florida, second time was, oh never mind.

anyway, just about everyone has been saying the same thing "now that you have a kid you have to get rid of the toy". but even my woman fights them off with me! we both felt we dont have to do what everyone else does, we can make it work, we'll show them! we'll show them that it is possible. she doesnt want me to get rid of it anymore than i do. she loves that thing.

we're going to miss rollin up to the club/restaurant and she's in the pass seat all badass hot looking with tatoos all on her arms and we got big hollywood style shades on and got bass thumpin. blowin the doors off 350z's, rx7's, suburus. doin donuts. chirpin tires around turns onto freeway onramps. sigh ...

to answer the other questions. im 33. TB/WP/etc was done 3 years ago / 20k miles ago. out of snap ring range. im making a $500 a month car payment. the payoff is not as bad as i thought, i could actually make money, so ive calmed down now. it is my daily driver.

i will post pics later tonight. interior is flawless except for driver seat bolster (of course)

 

[BATMANs]

..... rx7's.........

I don't think you're going to like to hear my opinion, and that's it, only my opinion. If you're struggling to pay $200 a month for insurance, perhaps it's time you sell the car. I understand you might be upside down on the car, but perhaps it's better to bite the bullet, cut your loss and get rid of it. You want to take your wife out to dinner and you have a new eight month old. Depends on your priorities. It's a car. You could always get another one in the future. What would happen if you had a serious problem with the car? Could you afford the repair bill? Doesn't seem like you could. Sell it and spend time with your wife and new baby. These are difficult times for lots of people and many are forced to make difficult decisions.

Good luck to you with what ever decision you make.


:biggrin:

 

[zxtec]

blowin the doors off 350z's, rx7's, suburus. doin donuts. chirpin tires around turns onto freeway onramps. sigh ...

I hope you were being facetious? With the high miles, minor accidents, and a statement such as the one above, you might have a harder time selling your car if you decide to.

 

[latzke]

I'm about your age and have two kids (1 & 3). Finding time to nurture the marriage relationship can be tough. Lots of good advice out there (in marriage books, etc) on that. Feel free to email me if you want to share stories/ideas/frustrations.

IMO...

The details you've provided, questions you're asking, and introspective comments (hard to man up, will be...responsible and make a big decision) show wisdom...and normal reluctance to follow it.

Sell the NSX, buy a beater and avoid high vehicle ownership costs, never finance another vehicle, eliminate any consumer debt, avoid future consumer debt, save until rainy-day fund matches 6+mo of expenses, ensure you are saving for retirement, make other wise financial decisions...then save up and buy another NSX or other appropriate toy (if that is even still a priority).

The stuff about, "we can make it work, we'll show them!" - I have no doubt you can, but... Do you really think that path will provide more satisfaction than a marriage without the stress of tight finances, more freedom and cash for family time/vacations, etc?

If you owned the NSX outright you could fund summer family vacations for a decade by pocketing the difference between selling price of NSX and buying price of a beater. Since your NSX is financed the savings will be even more (difference between prices AND interest on the difference)...just not as immediately tangible/obvious because it is spread out over time instead of a lump sum.

 

[tbromley]

^+1 Latzke - very well said and very sincere! If I were you Steve I believe I'd have to listen to this comment. I don't like telling anyone what to do about things like this but Latzke makes good points and economic times are tough and there are a lot more things out there that are valuable than a silly sports car (relatively that is). I love my silly sports car - but would I let it interfere with my life and the economics of ease of living without that financial drain - not for one minute. That's the reason I can afford this thing - I've made these kinds of decisions all my life.

A car is a "thing" - and it is not important - no "thing" is. Happiness, peace of mind - togetherness - family stuff and those things that make family life easier - those are the most important and valuable. All this other materialism we indulge in is just icing on the cake. If it's not comfortable then forget about it till it's an EASY decision. There will always be another car - ALWAYS! :wink:

PS: this group will always be here for you too! Just cause you don't have an NSX doesn't mean we'll divorce you.

 

[docjohn]

We often sooth ourselves with things,we acumulate toys to distract us from the pain,or to reward ourselves for tasks because no one else will.......take these last few posts to heart.take joy and solice in the "free" things in life...you really can't buy happiness.....:smile:

 

[stevetwors]

Just wanted to give an update:

selling an NSX is a pain in the butt. Soooo, sooo, sooo many stupid questions. EVERY DAY, everrrry frikn day another stupid ass question "what year is it?", "how many miles?", "how are the tires?". dude its all in the ad. anyway,

i listed it 3 times and failed to hit reserve each time:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120574315735

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120580394025

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120584919310

look at what happened, the auction got worse each time i relisted it. at this rate ill have it sold for $5k by next month LOL.

ive had many phone calls with low ball offers, saying they've got cash in hand. basically, every one of them cites the same reasons for their low offer: the high mileage and the 2 accidents in the history report. i hate to say it but i dont blame them. it doesnt matter what i say or pics i show of the accidents to try and explain the accidents were not so bad, because just the fact that theres accidents reported on the car automatically lowers a price regardless of what level damage happened.

this is exactly what i thought was going to happen and was the reason i expressed frustration when beginning this thread. i knew this would happen. so what can i do? NOTHING. i have to get rid of this car. we are almost negative at the end of each month and like someone here said tight finances put a huge stress on marriages. each month that goes by unsold is another $500 car payment and living paycheck to paycheck. our life has been miserable lately.

what frustrates me is, I GOT HIT. its not my fault. this was just bad luck i couldn't avoid. its really frustrating because someone can come along in your life and hit you and because of that you're screwed financially. the loan payoff is $18k and im about to sell it to someone who has $16k cash in his hand.

what do you all think about that? my first auction got up to $17k but i just cant deal with this anymore and just want this to be over with. if this car was never hit, im sure i could have gotten $21-22k. now, im looking at making car payments for 4 more months after its sold.

i still feel bad for the indian guy that hit me. he is extremely poor, has a litter of kids to feed and drives (drove) a barely working 2001 KIA. i can relate because ive been very poor too, ive been there. he called me couple months ago saying how his insurance company is suing him for the money that his coverage didnt cover, he was begging me to not get my car fixed to the level it would be so he wouldnt have his wages garnished - credit rating damaged etc. i told him too late the work has already been done, dont know what to tell you. but i felt bad, i could hear the pain in his voice. i mean, A LOT of people are driving out there that have the bare minimum 10k liability coverage, if they even HAVE any insurance at all in the first place, theres so many illegal immigrants driving around without even a LICENSE. your life can change dramatically depending on whether you hit a mercedes or a hyundai, even more so when physical injury is involved.


here's some vids from yesterday when the buyer came down to look at the car (thats his family in the vid):

http://www.zshare.net/video/77713218f47429b1/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJJz5s8tFWo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4EDSoAIl5M

does that look/sound like a $16k car? i dont think so!!

 

[rbirling]

Is it too late to make an insurance claim for diminished value? The insurance is supposed to cover for this, although I've never tried to get it either. And you may not want to do that given the rest of the situation.

 

[stevetwors]

Is it too late to make an insurance claim for diminished value? The insurance is supposed to cover for this, although I've never tried to get it either. And you may not want to do that given the rest of the situation.

ive never heard of such a thing. ill check into it. thanks,

edit: just checked. when the total/not total decision was made they did it based on the bluebook/market value of the car and they put 2 accidents into the value equation. the only problem is their idea of its value is not realistic, as i have found out. people talk on this board and elsewhere how much nsxs go for, well i dont think they are realistic either. im just seeing difference in hearsay vs real world here. maybe its just how the market is right now?

i just checked with the bank and they will not hand over the title until the loan is paid off, period. they wont work with me like convert the $2k difference to a personal loan. funny, you would think they give a shit enough to prevent another person defaulting in this economy these days. i can use my credit card but only have $1.5k avail. so this guy is going to have to accept paying like $16.5k, not much i can do thats just the way it is. i even gave him screenshots of my account balances. btw, this is like the 3rd person to offer the exact same amount cash in hand, 16k. they are all different people i can confirm that. weird, where are they all getting this same number from?

 

[Hard Five]

Diminished Value claims are almost always excluded under first party (your insurance) contracts. The only time you can make a DV claim is direct to the at fault drivers insurance, or to your insurance if you are struck by an uninsured motorist. You cant make a DV claim against the other drivers policy as they have a limits issue, and you can't make a claim on your policy for uninsured motorist property damage (the coverage that does not exclude DV claims) as the other driver had insurance. DV claims also are typically for newer cars, or cars without an accident history. If your car has any previous damage claims, the insurance company would argue the DV occurred on the first hit, and any subsequent hits did nothing to devalue and already blemished car. You are likely SOL. Sorry to say, but its the truth. Good luck though, its always worth a try. On a side note you could sue the driver of the vehicle who struck you, but from the sound of it, that would be a complete waste of time.

 

[rbirling]

ive never heard of such a thing. ill check into it. thanks,

edit: just checked. when the total/not total decision was made they did it based on the bluebook/market value of the car and they put 2 accidents into the value equation. the only problem is their idea of its value is not realistic, as i have found out. people talk on this board and elsewhere how much nsxs go for, well i dont think they are realistic either. im just seeing difference in hearsay vs real world here. maybe its just how the market is right now?

i just checked with the bank and they will not hand over the title until the loan is paid off, period. they wont work with me like convert the $2k difference to a personal loan. funny, you would think they give a shit enough to prevent another person defaulting in this economy these days. i can use my credit card but only have $1.5k avail. so this guy is going to have to accept paying like $16.5k, not much i can do thats just the way it is. i even gave him screenshots of my account balances. btw, this is like the 3rd person to offer the exact same amount cash in hand, 16k. they are all different people i can confirm that. weird, where are they all getting this same number from?

I think I'd tell the guy it's 18k cash in hand or the bank won't release the car. But that doesn't get you out if he refuses. The person that's willing, able or forced to walk away from the deal has the upper hand. Maybe they're all getting the 16k number from one of the online bluebook sites?

 

[BlackWindEXE]

Sorry to hear about your situation. I pmed you.

 

[Thunder]

also sorry, I wish you good courage and good luck in your misfortune, the life is like that, there are tops and bottoms, keep courage! :smile: