Air vs. Nitrogen

[gar123]

I'd like to know if anyone out there has put in nitrogen instead of regular compressed air? I heard there's a big difference in the ride feel? I'm shopping for rear tires as well. I'd like to know if anyone has tried Kumho AST or Ectas, Hankook Ventus HR11, Cooper Zeons, or BFG G-force? I'd like to have a quieter ride so I can hear more of the engine and I'd like to get better dry and wet traction overall. I do alot of canyon runs. I'd like to know a good set-up for suspension without breaking the bank- Like K sport or Koni, bilsteins. Any comment would be apreciated.

Thanks,

Gar123

 

[scorp965]

H&R cup kit + Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3's =

 

[TURBO2GO]

only difference between air and nitrogen is that nitrogen will not leak out as fast and you get an ugly green valve stem cap with it.

 

[DocL]

I haven't noticed any difference between the two gas types.

 

[CL65 Captain]

We use Nitrogen in the tires in our planes - won't freeze up at FL360 (-40c). :biggrin:

 

[OneRedNSX]

only difference between air and nitrogen is that nitrogen will not leak out as fast and you get an ugly green valve stem cap with it.

i thought it didn't heat up as much so it didn't cause as much pressure change in a cold vs warm tire...

 

[SoCalDude]

only difference between air and nitrogen is that nitrogen will not leak out as fast and you get an ugly green valve stem cap with it.

Exactly, but I couldn't leave the green caps on mine.

 

[Hal_396]

i thought it didn't heat up as much so it didn't cause as much pressure change in a cold vs warm tire...

You are well informed:smile: I used it in my stock cars and my NSX. There is no difference in the feel of the ride its just much more stable.

 

[CarCrazed4Life]

As most have gathered, it prevents PSI change when outside temperatures change. Its more stable in other words. I have not experienced it myself.

On another note, if you want recommendations on your tires, tell us what wheel combo you have now, and what your looking for in the handling, wear, noise, comfort categories... and the intelligent NSX Prime members can better help you out

 

[EIFFEL]

This is direct quote from Honda Service News Sept. 2006. " Nitrogen is an ideal gas for inflating tires in aircraft, military vehicles, race cars and heavy off-road equipment, but when it comes to automobile tires, it offers no apparent advantages over ordinary-dry compressed air. Our advice to you: Just stick with the air you breathe."

 

[NSXT]

*Since your NSX came with Honda air in its Honda specific tires, you should only refill using Honda air to preserve the NSX handling.*

More seriously:
Remember from high school physics that regular everyday air is 78% nitrogen? Remember that nitrogen is gas, and Boyles gas expansion law, PV=nrT, applies fundamentally to all gases.

Nitrogen does not protect against pressure change with temperature. However, nitrogen's pressure change is more predictable than air since air contains varying amounts of water vapor (humidity) and water expands at a higher rate than nitrogen. Nitrogen molecules are bigger than water molecules, so it leaks out a little slower as well. There is no ride quality difference.

I've run both in a racing environment. With local air, pressure increase varies 7 to 9 psi, depending on humidity. With a nitrogen bottle, its a consistent 6 psi increase. For me, carrying around a bottle is too much hassle, so I just pay a little more attention to my tires.

Slower leaking and more predictable expansion have their place vs. cost, but certainly not in everyday driving.

 

[SFNSXguy]

Remember if you're running stock NSX tires you'll need to add ballast so the car doesn't hover just off the ground. Aftermarket tires are heavier so there is less of a problem (except of course with racing slicks which are very light).

Harry

 

[CL65 Captain]

I fill my tires with N02 and that's why they have that big smile.

 

[Bodhi]

Side note: PV=nRT is for ideal gasses. If I remember correctly, oxygen or more specifically diatomic oxygen (O2) does not behave as an ideal gas and requires an oxygen analyzer to acurately measure the partial pressure or percentage as opposed to cascade formulas. What does this mean for tires? Probably nothing for us, but just something I remembered from a long time ago. Also, the T in the formula is relative to absolute temperature (kelvin) not farenheit or celsius.

 

[TomCat]

We use Nitrogen in the tires in our planes - won't freeze up at FL360 (-40c). :biggrin:

We used to spec "DRY nitrogen"...I'm wondering if there are types on the market with an allowable moisture/air content.

 

[coolnsx]

I have Kumho Ecsata tires on my street rims and am very happy with their performance.

 

[Jin1976]

Check this link
http://www.tirelast.com/id15.html

 

[gsxrg]

This is honda/acura view.

 

[KooLaid]

I'd like to know if anyone out there has put in nitrogen instead of regular compressed air? I heard there's a big difference in the ride feel? I'm shopping for rear tires as well. I'd like to know if anyone has tried Kumho AST or Ectas, Hankook Ventus HR11, Cooper Zeons, or BFG G-force? I'd like to have a quieter ride so I can hear more of the engine and I'd like to get better dry and wet traction overall. I do alot of canyon runs. I'd like to know a good set-up for suspension without breaking the bank- Like K sport or Koni, bilsteins. Any comment would be apreciated.

Thanks,

Gar123

No ride difference. Nitrogen does not expand like air does when the temperature heats up. Hot or cold, nitrogen stays the same.

In the summer my pressures have changed alot before. In the colder morning, and during a hard canyon run mid day when the outside temp is around 100. Then you also need to calculate the correct psi for the tires facing the sun in the morning and those that aren't. I'm just really picky about my tire pressures so I go through the extra time in mathematically calculating pressures based off tire temperatures through out the day.

This is when nitogren is AWESOME because no matter what temperature it is, what side faces the sun, etc etc, you filler it up to spec, then leave it alone!

 

[Autophile]

Remember from high school physics that regular everyday air is 78% nitrogen? Remember that nitrogen is gas, and Boyles gas expansion law, PV=nrT, applies fundamentally to all gases.

Nitrogen does not protect against pressure change with temperature. However, nitrogen's pressure change is more predictable than air since air contains varying amounts of water vapor (humidity) and water expands at a higher rate than nitrogen. Nitrogen molecules are bigger than water molecules, so it leaks out a little slower as well. There is no ride quality difference.

This is the best explanation yet given on this thread. However, if I add in the tidbit that oxygen slowly corrodes tires (oxidation), and pure N2 will not corrode tires, then my more complete explanation/post becomes the best. :biggrin:

 

[SFNSXguy]

This is the best explanation yet given on this thread. However, if I add in the tidbit that oxygen slowly corrodes tires (oxidation), and pure N2 will not corrode tires, then my more complete explanation/post becomes the best. :biggrin:

Come on guys... you know how long it takes for tires to "corrode" filled with "air"? Might be an issue for cars in a museum....

It's a tremendous pain in the ass to evacuate the air and refill with N2.... then you need to haul a N2 cylinder around with you.

If you own a race car (I'm talking about a REAL race car, not one driven to and from track days) then N2 makes life a little easier (expansion w/heat, etc.) otherwise....

If you have the time/money to use nitrogen in your tires I have some terrific swamp property in Florida I'd like to sell you.

Harry

 

[95 CRUZER]

When I got new tires at TIRES PLUS this past summer they filled them with nitrogen, not air. Also tires will run cooler, Tests have shown that tires filled with N2 have a 80% less chance for tire failures.

 

[KooLaid]

Come on guys... you know how long it takes for tires to "corrode" filled with "air"? Might be an issue for cars in a museum....

It's a tremendous pain in the ass to evacuate the air and refill with N2.... then you need to haul a N2 cylinder around with you.

If you own a race car (I'm talking about a REAL race car, not one driven to and from track days) then N2 makes life a little easier (expansion w/heat, etc.) otherwise....

If you have the time/money to use nitrogen in your tires I have some terrific swamp property in Florida I'd like to sell you.

Harry

Not a pain. Just takes some extra time. Find a friend who works on Air Conditioning systems. He should have a vacuum pump that removes all the oxygen from an AC system. He should be able to adapt it to the tires valves to vacuum out a good amount of the air with unbeading the tire. Heck, he should also even be able to hook you up with some free nitrogen if he does more than just car ac systems.

 

[Autophile]

Come on guys... you know how long it takes for tires to "corrode" filled with "air"? Might be an issue for cars in a museum....

I understand that it would take a long time, which is why I said "slowly." However, as an engineer, I wanted to point out all liabilities, even those that would seem to be insignificant.

Speaking of corrosion, water and oxygen can also attack the wheel itself, especially if the wheel is made of steel. Likewise, pure nitrogen can attack magnesium wheels. Again, this is based on thermodynamics, not kinetics.

 

[nigel]

I have only been in aviation for 24 yrs., as a pilot and I.A. The ONLY reason they use NO2 in aircraft is that outside, compressed air contains more H2O molecules than NO2. Acft (jets) that travel at high altitudes, where the OAT is below freezing, (minus 20), can cause the H2O molecules in compressed air to condense and freeze, causing an out of balance situation in the affected tyre(s). This could be considered a problem in an aircraft (jet) that has a high touchdown speed. Most Part 91 and some part 135 acft. don't fly at altitudes that would require NO2 because the OAT at there respective altitudes aren't high enough to be concerned with freezing. If compressed air is good enough for aircraft, then i'm sure it's good for your NSX, unless you are just a fanatic. Spend your time enjoying your car, instead of this kind of stuff.