Alignment issue

[djleeseawausa]

Hi Prime,

I have question about the alingment issue I have. I installed KW V3 by Prime recommened shop here in WA. I am having some alingment issues. I haven't driven the car for months and it is sitting in the garage.
I have driven probably less than 100 miles since the KWv3 was installed. But I had to take my car to alignment two times already. I drove the car again today and the car was pulling to right again. I am not sure if I need to keep taking the alignment done or may be drive little bit more until the it settles down first. I read few thread and may need kit to fix the camber issue? I am not an experty so Please help.
I am sharing the last alignment detail so you can take a look.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3y3ebrvfb5l6qhz/Screenshot 2022-02-10 094812.png?dl=0


Thanks!

 

[Valhalla]

Doesn't look quite correct to me. I might suggest the following;
Front -
Caster - equal on both sides and 8 degrees is about max anyway but equal.
Camber - max negative but equal. You should be able to pull -1.5 to -2.0 but equal again
Toe - This is your biggest issue. You need toe OUT in the front and toe IN in the rear. Don't need a lot, maybe 4mm total.
Rear -
Camber - looks good but if tire wear is an issue for you, see if they can lessen to -2.0
Toe - In just a little to about 2 - 4mm.

Check the Wiki Section for a lot more info. With new suspension it does take a little while for the car to settle on the springs so make sure your height adjustment is correct. You may want to corner balance too before you have the alignment redone. Good luck.

 

[djleeseawausa]

Thanks for your advise. I will take the car back to the shop and try again.

Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk

 

[docjohn]

some folks who want max rear tire life go to 0 toe rear...the front toe has various pros cons for slight + vs -...most folks me included go slightly toe out in front.

 

[Honcho]

Great advice from our members here. One thing to keep in mind is the toe setting on the NSX is designed to account for two main things: (1) the design of the OEM tires, which are corner-specific and actually "scrub" laterally as they roll; and (2) the compliance of the rubber suspension bushings- the toe will change under load as the rubber flexes. If you have non-OEM tires and non-compliance bushings, you can get away with less toe overall. Most owners go with what [MENTION=25419]Valhalla[/MENTION] said and are just fine.

 

[RYU]

1. how low is your car?
2. why does the rear camber look wacky? is there a hardware problem back there? (EDIT: nevermind. The numerical value doesn't match with the graphic of the wheel position)

 

[asylum]

Alignment seems ok. We can always discuss of preferences with toe in or out front. But this is not the cause of your problem. How bad is the car pulling right ? Most of the time the car will pull right because of the lateral slope of the road.

 

[CB72]

Alignment seems ok. We can always discuss of preferences with toe in or out front. But this is not the cause of your problem. How bad is the car pulling right ? Most of the time the car will pull right because of the lateral slope of the road.

Yes, and the more so with toe-out up front.
That's one of the reasons I prefer slight toe-in.
The car feels much more stable without requiring constant corrections on poor roads.

 

[hlakhani]

unrelated to your problem, but that's quite a lot of negative camber in the rear compared to the front. have you checked your toe links?

 

[djleeseawausa]

Thanks guys. I am taking my nsx to the Zahntech auto in Redmond WA again. They are the one who performed the alignment in the past and they are willing to correct the issue again. I shared your comments about and this is what they have responded

"The car may pull to the side with the least*caster. I checked the alignment results and your car did have less caster on the right although everything is in spec. It's possible there could be an issue with tires or maybe we just need to tweak the caster a bit to get it tracking properly. Also we could swap the tires from*left to right temporarily to see if that has an effect."

They strongly believe that the problem is the caster. But I will take your feedback to them tomorrow so they find out the issue


Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk

 

[djleeseawausa]

I don't have exact measurement but this is the current height.
I don't believe that the tires would be an issue because it was just fine until I installed new kwv3 by Zahntech.

Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk

 

[djleeseawausa]

Updates. I took my NSX to Zahntech in Redmond WA and they corrected the issues. As members were saying, the Toe was the issues and the steering wheel is centered again. Thanks Prime!

Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk

 

[MarineNSX93]

Doesn't look quite correct to me. I might suggest the following;
Front -
Caster - equal on both sides and 8 degrees is about max anyway but equal.
Camber - max negative but equal. You should be able to pull -1.5 to -2.0 but equal again
Toe - This is your biggest issue. You need toe OUT in the front and toe IN in the rear. Don't need a lot, maybe 4mm total.
Rear -
Camber - looks good but if tire wear is an issue for you, see if they can lessen to -2.0
Toe - In just a little to about 2 - 4mm.

Check the Wiki Section for a lot more info. With new suspension it does take a little while for the car to settle on the springs so make sure your height adjustment is correct. You may want to corner balance too before you have the alignment redone. Good luck.

What do you mean by Toe out and in? I have the same problem. I have 0 Toe in front and 0.14 positive toe in both rears.

is in negative and out positive?

Thanks.

 

[Valhalla]

Hey Mike. Long time. In the rear you want a little toe IN. As a reference think someone walking pigeon toed. That means the front side of the tire is a little closer to centerline than the back of the tire. You posted up .13 Toe IN. But is .13 in inches? If so, i would take some of that out so that you, are at .13 combined for both tires. Again, you want the rears toe IN.

Up front you want a little toe OUT. Think of Charlie Chaplin who walked like a duck. The front of the tire should be pushed out and the rear of the tire closer to centerline. This helps greatly with stability but doesn't hurt your turn in to corners much. I would shoot for the same .13 inches total for both tires. Hope this helps.

 

[LJSB]

FYI
A few points I'd like to make.
Toe in or out is a terminology that can confuse folks.
IMO negative and positive are better terms since in geometry numbers are negative or positive not "in or out".

An important point is the proper alignment procedure. After a caster adjustment the tech needs to do another caster swing and check the readings again as they will change. Not doing this can misrepresent the numbers and the actual state of the suspension geometry and, a incorrect value for the toe. Almost always it is manifest in a vehicle pulling to one side or the other, usually it seems to be to the right.

This incorrect alignment procedure is fairly common and I have had NSX's come to me after being aligned elsewhere and the car wants to go in circles. The techs don't read the procedure listed at the top of the specs so this happens and at some of the very best dealers and alignment shops. Sometimes the car is returned to the original shop and they do another alignment and surprise the toe is out! They fix that and the car is better BUT, another caster swing and toe tweek during the original alignment would have found this toe problem and NOT be returned.

This car, if aligned correctly, feel like it is on rails and I have seen the surprise on many people's faces when they feel their car after being correctly aligned. If your NSX is not aligned correctly you will never have the driving experience that makes this car so wonderful and as it was meant to be.

 

[LJSB]

What do you mean by Toe out and in? I have the same problem. I have 0 Toe in front and 0.14 positive toe in both rears.

is in negative and out positive?

Thanks.

Toe is relative to the center line of the vehicle. Pointing to the center line or "in", is positive toe (+)
Away from out center line is out or negative (-)

I strongly suggest using the term neg(-) or positive (+) since we are discussing geometry (numbers) in vehicle alignment.