An Intimate Week with Horsepower (Pahrump Event with the BaschBoost)

[ScienceofSpeed]

I had a great week beginning on Tuesday that I thought I’d share. I shipped my NSX from NSXPO in WI to Basch Acura Service in Phoenix, AZ for BaschBoost Supercharger installation as well as some maintenance work. It has been quite some time since I’ve seen my car, and I was excited to see Whitey as well as Jane and Mark Basch again. Mark was gracious enough to pick me up from the airport on Tuesday evening as well as put me up in Hotel Basch (with exclusive ammenities such as Dinah the Dog). It has been a real pleasure meeting and doing business with great people such as Mark, Jane, and Nick. Truly outstanding figures in the NSX community. Mark's work and character is outstanding, and the fact that there were several NSXes from distances in excess of 2000 miles is a testament of the regard that he is held up to by his customers.

After completing the supercharger installation, we fired up the car, and it sounded GREAT! I was excited that the tone and volume of the exhaust note did not change dramatically like how I have seen other supercharger systems silence the exhaust note. The car now sounds plain evil, with a jet turbine-esque whine coupling with the fierce JGTC exhaust note. On top of the supercharger installation, we also had Comptech headers installed along with fluid flushes. Kudos to Comptech for their redesign of the flex joint to the 95+ style ball joint. Great innovation for the header system. We decided to not test drive the car until the fuel pressure meter would be available tomorrow morning. I had to be content with the drive outside to wash off my car in the meantime. The anticipation was killing me! I hardly slept that night

The next day, we headed off to the Basch shop where we metered the fuel pressure. Everything looked great. At the same time, a new supercharger was going in on a 97+ Monte Carlo Blue, which is the first NA2 install on a 97+ NSX. We were excited to see that BOTH the targa top boot and brace fit perfectly! No odd targa boot tops or redesigned strut braces to deal with! I have been very impressed with the design of the supercharger, especially the way that it integrates so well in the car.

BaschBoost Supercharger installed on a 1997 NSX

We dyno’ed my car, and I was very happy with the results. 379.7 max RWHP and max 268 RWT.

continued...

[This message has been edited by ScienceofSpeed (edited 19 November 2001).]

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

posting since UBB doesn't seem to like long posts...

As an FYI, my car has Comptech headers, and a TAITEC exhaust. The engine is stock, and the supercharger is using the finalized 4” pulley. No tuning work was done to the car; it was literally a ‘bolt-on’ experience.

Unfortunately, we ran out of time for the installation on the NA2 97+ NSX, and we were not able to get a finalized dyno plot. Note that both kits are still in beta phase, completing reliability (read thousands of miles of street driving and flogging at the track).

During the idle time, I was able to weigh in Whitey. At about 2850lbs with a full tank of gas, all fluids topped off, and lots of junk in the trunk, the car is light, but not as light as I had hoped for. Good news is the car is balanced nearly perfect with driver at about 49.7 and 51.3 cross distribution thanks to a good corner-balancing job with the TEIN suspension.

After departing quite late, we endured the long drive to Pahrump, NV to attend the track event. Pahrump was a very technical track that rewards driver skill more than sheer horsepower. I did get to stretch the legs on the NSX on the drive to the track as well as all day at the track. I was very impressed with the power delivery and derivability of my NSX. I was somewhat apprehensive about going to the forced induction route, as I’ve always been a big fan of NA linear power. I was relieved that I did not have to significantly modify my driving technique, as the car felt like there was a larger engine vs. a shot of non-linear power to upset my concentration and put me in the pit of little boulders surrounding the track (yikes!).

I always enjoy track events with the NSX guys because of the camaraderie and courtesy expressed. I had a great time (although I was a little disappointed that there were no promised show girls after lugging my spare helmet all the way from WA).

After the event, three of us sprinted to LA and then north to Calabasas to meet up with the SoCal group there. Despite being dead tired (I was running on 2 hours of sleep from the previous evening’s gruelling drive) I was able to show the BaschBoost as well as some of the other ScienceofSpeed goodies on Whitey. It was great to meet the SoCal bunch, especially John Richards who was kind enough to point us in the direction of a place to stay, and provide washing facilities the next morning, thanks John!

The next morning, we were back on our way to the Bay Area where we had time to fit the new twin ducted hood (price TBA). The BaschBoost was also on display in San Francisco at Hill Top Auto, where more rides were given. Great to finally meet new faces from e-mail!

New CFRP Hood

New FRP Hood

It’s great to be a car guy.

Cheers,
-- Chris


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www.ScienceofSpeed.com - Click for more info

[This message has been edited by ScienceofSpeed (edited 19 November 2001).]

[This message has been edited by ScienceofSpeed (edited 19 November 2001).]

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Lud -- I think UBB needs to be reindexed. I'm getting very erratic performance.

-- Chris

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www.ScienceofSpeed.com - Click for more info

 

[bonzo]

Chris,
Thanks for your update--I am living vicariously through people like you to understand what the "BaschBoost" experience is all about. I have not even installed i/h/e yet on my stock '94...I expect that when I modify, I'll go big (including BB!). It's great to hear descriptions of the power delivery. It would probably make a huge difference on my car. Thanks again for the review/pictures.

------------------
Steve
'94 Brooklands Green Coupe (stock)
'01 Lexus GS430

 

[Lud]

Originally posted by ScienceofSpeed:
Lud -- I think UBB needs to be reindexed.

Done

 

[Craig]

Chris, It was nice meeting you in So. Cal. Thanks for the E-Ticket Ride!!

 

[ak]

Awesome dyno graph...look at that torque just keeps on going! That's sick.

I have a question though. The air/fuel ratio looks very lean for forced induction engine esp around 5000 rpm...I thought you should keep it below 13:1 or less to be safe. Is this how this kit will run or it just wasn't tuned at that time when it was dynoed?

 

[Lud]

Chris - That is a fantastic writeup... Better than most of the stuff in the car magazines I subscribe to! You say it's great being a car guy, I say it's great being a part of this group! Thanks for sharing.

 

[nsxman]

Hi Chris...

I am glad you made it back to Washington safe and sound.

A question. Can you or MB offer an explanation for the rapid oscillations in the torque and HP plots at about 5000 rpm?

Jim

 

[BryanZublin]

>Can you or MB offer an explanation for the
>rapid oscillations in the torque and HP
>plots at about 5000 rpm?

I have seen this response on DynoJet graphs of normally aspirated NSX's as well. I would guess that it is inherent in the DynoJet system, maybe a resonance of the rotating drum.


------------------
Zublin Engineering
http://www.zublin.com

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

I forgot to mention as well that the car averaged 24.2 MPG over 300 miles from Pahrump to LA. This involved multiple triple digit (in KPH of course) runs as well as driving over mountainous passes. This is about the same mileage I get normal driving. The car averaged 26.7 mpg on the drive from LA to SF, including more than a couple speed bursts and driving on mostly flat I-5 highway.

Thanks Lud & all.

The minor peaks were attributed to noise on the dynojet by the dyno operator. More testing and tuning will be done before release, of course.

-- Chris

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[NSXY]

Chris/Mark:

What about AK's question above regarding keeping the air/fuel ratio below 13:1. I know nothing about this. RSVP.



------------------
NSXY
95 NSX-T, 5 sp, Red/Tan, Stock, except Dunlaptya SP9000s

 

[nsxtasy]

This involved multiple triple digit (in KPH of course) runs

KPH = kicks per hour

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

The A/F ratio displayed is on an untuned BETA phase kit. The ratio is within acceptable range, though future production kits will be tuned slightly more rich as a safety layer.

Cheers,
-- Chris

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www.ScienceofSpeed.com - Click for more info

 

[NSXY]

Chris/Mark:

As part of the continuing clinic, I have another question: What does the stock NSX air/fuel mixture graph look like when dyned, compared with the BB SC graph? That is, for a BB SCed NSX, does it make sense to tune to match the stock A/F, or do you tune for a richer mixture than stock? (Obviously, I know nothing about these things, and that's why I visit NSX Prime: to learn stuff). RSVP.

------------------
NSXY
95 NSX-T, 5 sp, Red/Tan, Stock, except Dunlaptya SP9000s

 

[cojones]

We dyno’ed my car, and I was very happy with the results. 379.7 max RWHP and max 268 RWT.

Did you have a comparable baseline on your NA motor (a "before" picture) ??

Impressive... most impressive.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

No, we ran out of time to do a baseline before the install. Typically, bone stock NA1 NSXes dyno at about 230-240 RWHP, some are lower, some are higher.

Regards,
-- Chris

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www.ScienceofSpeed.com - Click for more info

 

[NSXTech]

Originally posted by NSXY:
Chris/Mark:

As part of the continuing clinic, I have another question: What does the stock NSX air/fuel mixture graph look like when dyned, compared with the BB SC graph? That is, for a BB SCed NSX, does it make sense to tune to match the stock A/F, or do you tune for a richer mixture than stock? (Obviously, I know nothing about these things, and that's why I visit NSX Prime: to learn stuff). RSVP.

In a perfect world, you could tune an SC car to run on the same a/f ratio as a NA car. There are two problems with that- 1) we do not live in a perfect world. 2) real answer is that a forced induction motor will need addl fuel quicker than a stock fuel system can provide it. A stock NSX is equipped to add fuel to the intake track at least as quick as you can add air, which you do simply by depressing the accelerator. In an SC NSX however, more air is added very suddenly and very quickly as soon as the blower begins to spool up, and the stock system cannot match this fuel requirement quick enough. To do this requires more pressure available to the rail from the pump, which we address with the boost a pump voltage inverter. Then you need more pressure to the injectors, which is accomplished in BaschBoost with a) B&M fuel Command regulator which allows more fuel pressure to the regulator initially, AND the Paxton rising rate FMU which adds an addl "X"
number of psi of fuel per psi of boost, matching the rising demand for fuel to the rising rate of boost. Also- you need to make sure the injectors know you want the most of everything from them under boost, so we send a signal to the MAP sensor to tell them so, via the SmartMapper.

Would I prefer to have a slightly richer mixture than 13.5:1? Yes. Will we? Yes. Is that easy and without its own dangers? NO!
Too rich is NOT better than too lean. While too lean can cause a sudden death, too rich can be worse. It causes a slow death known as cylinder wash, whereby all the extra fuel you inject dilutes the oil which is supposed to be protecting the cylinder walls, and washes it away before it does any protecting at all. How fast is sudden death? Well, it occurs during a single combustion cycle wherein the mixture is too lean to be stable AND the heat caused from air being compressed excessively causes this unstable mixture to light off too soon before the piston finishes its "up" stroke and is forced down and out the side of the block. Put another way, approx .015 of a second.
How slow is slow death? You can destroy an engine in an hour of driving too rich, or even less if you were doing continuous dyno pulls to redline with, say, large JDM Honda injectors, at, say, 90 psi fuel pressure.

Anyhow, some of this is certainly the Walt Disney version of fuel management. This is done soley for the benifit of those of you who are alsways asking me for the simple explanations. Fuel management is no joke and I take it DEADLY serious. We are working on a
final iteration of the fuel system we have now which uses electronics to increase the fuel only slightly, and only at a certain rpm range where the extra bit of margin of safety seems important to me. I will sell no SC before it is time, OR before every and all dangers I see even remotely possible, no longer exist.

In the broader picture- we are pretty much right on target for our roll out of install dates. There is a shop full of CNC android types in Phx typing away as we speak to get the machines ready. They will start carving out metal pieces this week as all the hardware is in its final form. We have had no failures on our beta cars, and the miles are continuing to rack up. The current fuel system is 98 per cent, but we are working on the 100 per cent perfection goal. We are testing the last new parts today or tomorrow-
we have had a set of power pulleys made for 3 of the beta testers, in order to increase belt size from 5 groove to 6. We just need to make sure idle quality doesn't suffer noticabally from the lack of balancer rubber.
Gruupe M does this with no probs, but they used steel or iron to make their pulleys. We are making ours out of unobtainium for weight and other considerations. We are testing these new pulleys at the track at Firebird Raceway Dec 1 and 2 if anybody in or near Phoenix wants to go joy riding, please feel free to come by and have Mark J scare the s--- out of you. I NEVER take anybody in my car for rides, I'm just too lousy of a driver to do that, but MJ loves showing off and if any of you have seen him race lately, you know he is getting too good for his own good. (is that good syntax? Ken?)
BZ *might* make it, Nick *might* make it, Chris W will not be traveling this far again so soon. (too bad- he is also *quite* the speed demon) Anybody wanting to see the fastest NA NSX and driver I know of, Dale Rampsperger in Deep Purple is also promising to be there. We have 15 or more NSX's coming this weekend, and AZSRA has given us our own run group for the weekend- should be a killer time. Private me if you want details on signing up for the event. Spectators just need to show up.
All of you who have placed oreders with SoS, Dali, or Basch direct, will have a chance to confirm your order (read: place a deposit) within the next ten days, and get an install date. I do not have a count at hand, but it alreday exceeds our first production run. We will probably have a few left however after we seperate the buyers from the wishers; either way the second run will probably occur before the end of the year, at this rate.

I hope I haven't created more questions than I answered! If so, please feel to ask. I have not been here (Forum) as often as I would like, but you can't imagine the demands on my time right now, with the Phx shop, the Poway shop, the BaschBoost, and the rest of lifes fun stuff, of which there seems to be no shortage.
Cheers,
Mark Basch

 

[nsxtasy]

I have not been here (Forum) as often as I would like, but you can't imagine the demands on my time right now

Mark - Your willingness to share your knowledge, and your patience in spending time here and on the e-mail lists, helping so many people with problems, and answering so many questions, are impressive and very much appreciated.

We are very fortunate that the most experienced guy around is also one of the nicest guys around.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 27 November 2001).]

 

[NOS]

I sat down with Larry from NSX Modified last night looking through the Claims on this new Supercharger set up. Keeping in mind that there is no mention of replacing the injectors for higher flow models, the numbers and hp claims do NOT add up.

I will concede that the installation looks good, without the need to loose the engine cover.

My suggestion, have the dyno tests done by an independant source, or even better a shoot out between this new Supercharger and the NSX Modified Turbo set up !!

Roll on the competition.

------------------
Bjorn "NOS" Morris

95 Brooklands Green NSX-T
ZEX 150hp shot NOS
Magnaflow Cat Back
OZ 3 Piece Alloys
Lowered Race Springs and Shocks
etc.etc.etc.

 

[nsxtasy]

Hmmm... Sounds like NOS is saying that one of the vendors to the NSX community is going around slamming another vendor's product. If it's true, this would be a first... and would not reflect well on Larry. If it's NOT true, then NOS should correct the record and apologize.

As far as the numbers adding up, I'll place my money on Mark Basch any day of the week.

*edit* to properly attribute the statement of Larry's involvement as an allegation by NOS, rather than fact.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 04 December 2001).]

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Here is how the numbers add up: "Superior Engineering Nets Superior Performance". No mystery, deceit, or magic behind that.

-- Chris

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www.ScienceofSpeed.com - Click for more info

 

[4g62bt2c30a]

Yea .....Blame it on larry thats good or maby corky bell or heh, better yet hmm.... carol shelby hehehehe.... I have no affilation with Larry or anyone over at NSX modified. It looks to me like a setup?

 

[Exotica]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Hmmm... Sounds like one of the vendors to the NSX community is going around slamming another vendor's product. This is a first... and does not reflect well on Larry.

Originally posted by 4g62bt2c30a:
Yea .....Blame it on larry thats good or maby corky bell or heh, better yet hmm.... carol shelby hehehehe.... I have no affilation with Larry or anyone over at NSX modified. It looks to me like a setup?

I don't know Larry at all and won't begin to say anything bad about him...but in this thread we have a first time poster "NOS" sitting down with Larry from NSX Modified and determining that Mark's system isn't capable of meeting the stated power levels, then moments later we have "4g62bt2c30a" (who has been down talking the BaschBoost all along) giving Larry a plug: http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003110.html (see post at 13:51 December 04)

Something seems fishy to me...

[This message has been edited by Exotica (edited 04 December 2001).]

 

[ilya]

I don't know who this new guy is, but I will bet Larry said no such thing. In fact, I'm sure he has no idea of this post. That will change. It's not his style to do this and I'll make sure he is aware of this post... real quick!

I speak to Larry all the time. He personally stated to me no less than a week ago... that although he does not know how it is being done, he trusts Mark's reputation and believes that everything is being done honestly and without any deception. He did say that the numbers 'do not add up', but not in your context. He stated that they do not because he does not know how it is being done. He truly does not know how such numbers can be produced safely w/ stock injectors.
However, he followed that by saying that he trusts Mark to be an honest person and is sure that all the dyno info is trustworthy.
He is just as interested as everyone else to see the final product and how it produces the power. The difference is that he has enough maturity to put trust in proven vendors, unlike some who have posted lately, and trust that all will be revealed in time with honest results.

NOS, I do not know you.
If you think you are helping, you are not. You are misrepresenting a vendor, without his knowledge, and causing unnecessary damage.
Larry is too busy to monitor this board and what is posted in his name. I take it upon myself to make sure he is not misrepresented.

I suggest you refrain from these kinds of posts. Larry is a friend of mine, and a trusted mechanic, and I will insure his reputation isn't harmed by rogue posts, well meaning or not. Competition or not, and personal issues aside, Larry has been very clear to me that he has the utmost respect for Mark Basch, his honesty, and his work.

Please be careful when you make claims on behalf of vendors because it can do more harm than you think.

I suggest you either delete or edit your post. Then I will change mine to reflect.
Sorry for the harshness, but this is the most ricockulous vendor bashing I have EVER seen.
I will not allow a good vendor to be misrepresented on this forum, especialy one I deal with on a regular basis.

Please ignore the comment made by NOS about 'the numbers do not add up.' Larry said no such thing in any context resembling his post.

peace


[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 04 December 2001).]

[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 04 December 2001).]