Anybody else have sleep problems?

[robr]

Surprised I could not find a thread for this other than questions about melotonin and a 'why do we sleep' thread.

I can't sleep. Had problems for years but it's getting worse. I've slept maybe 3 hours in the past two nights. I don't drink caffeine, melotonin doesn't help, trazodone helps get me to sleep but doesn't keep me asleep. The problem really just seems to be I think too much. I am constantly juggling a million things in my head between work (a lot of stress and not enough people to do the work), community involvement and family related things and I can't shut it all off. I will lay in bed for hours until it's time to get up, or just go into work at 4am. I shut off my phone at night so I'm not tempted to check email and such while in bed. I don't want to use heavy sleeping medications that will leave you groggy. I read every night after I get in bed to help my mind relax and between that and the trazodone I can sleep for a while. If I don't take trazodone, I can't sleep at all. I stopped taking it for about a week a couple months back when my vision started going downhill as one of the possible side effects listed was "blurry vision" (didn't help, guess I'm just getting old) and it was a horrible week for sleep. Also I recently bought a new mattress which is quite comfy thinking that might help.

Any other recommendations?

 

[mr envy]

is your job physical at all? I used to have all kinds of sleep issues until I started a new physically demanding job, between that and some exercise i'm stuffed when I eventually get to bed and now manage atleast 6 hours. just a thought sorry

 

[robr]

No, I'm in tech, but I do CrossFit 3x per week.

 

[NSXLNT]

Do you get any exercise? I find I sleep a little bit better when I get a physical workout, either on the job or recreation. Yoga? Meditation? Don't eat anything close to bedtime. Personally, I don't remember what it feels like to be rested and energized.

 

[sippy2]

I am exactly the same as you. Fought it for years. My method that works for me...1 or 1/2 tazodone 50mg at bedtime. When I wake..usually 3-3:30...another 1/2 pill imediately. Then in my head I go to one of my passions...either golf or recently... fantasizing about my first track day in the NSX. Absolutely not think about any real life(work,family issues,finances,etc.)

Works for me about 80-90 percent of the time.

It is truly a curse.

 

[chumch]

I also have a very active mind at bedtime which often makes it tough to sleep. This has helped some, along with a benadryl a half hour before bed.
http://www.hammacher.com/Product/60587?cm_cat=ProductSEM&cm_pla=AdWordsPLA&source=PRODSEM

 

[robr]

Oh yes, I sleep with a fan for the white noise and the breeze blowing on my face helps.

 

[gleibig]

I don't have problems falling asleep, but I know I wake up 20+ times (probably more than I'm aware of) every night. No problems falling back asleep. Wake up, roll over, fall asleep.....repeat every 15-30minutes.
My snooze alarm goes off every 5min. I can wake up and fall back asleep several times in that 5min. My alarm is set for 7:15. I usually will wake up a few times between 5:30&6:30 feeling refreshed like I could get up then, but since I don't have too, I go back to sleep. When my alarm finally wakes me up, I'm so tired that I can't even open my eyes. I wind up hitting the snooze button for about 40min every morning.
It hasn't affected me during the day, so I just let it go.

 

[shawn110975]

dont feel alone I havent sleep since I was 12 years old im 37 now. I have the same issue my brain doesnt turn off when I lay down. my eyes are closed but I am fully awake.
I think about everything, like things i did that day and things I did years ago, like falling off a skateboard ramp " if I had knee pads I wouldnt have messed my knee up " etc.
I dont take any sleep aids, actually I dont even take asprin, I hate pills. I dont have L4 L5 discs in my back due to a car accident and have pain constantlly but I ignore it.
the injurys when I was younger I have throbbing pulsing pain in my injury knee I ignore it. maybe these pains are why I dont sleep but who knows.
but the pains in my body are nothing compared to my brain never shutting off. its like my off switch is broken. my wife laughs and says it can be 4:45Am and if she asks me a question I will answer her as if I was standing next to her, perfectly awake.

your healthy till you see a Dr. in my book.

 

[blue_myriddn]

I have been using a sleep mask for the past few years mostly as an aid to focus my mind on sleep rather than wandering and it seems to help. Something about the complete darkness makes my mind less apt to dwell on other things.

There are a bunch of different styles on the market now a days, they aren't all pink and frilly like they used to be (although if that's what works for you, who am I to say....)

 

[steveny]

Total darkness helps me to sleep. Even so I don't really sleep that much. I go to bed early, you know this rob, but usually watch TV for a few hours. Same issue you have just can't stop thinking. It's way worse on days that I don't bust ass. I need to wear myself out to get a good nights sleep. Last few nights have been very difficult. I think I might have slept a few hours last night. Mostly just laid in bed and read on the iPad. I think the current issue is Claritin D that I'm taking for this freaking pollen that's driving me nuts. I was getting great sleep for the last month but I was also working on the theater everyday and super tired when I got to bed.

 

[robr]

I was thinking of you when I wrote this Steve, you immediately came to mind as someone with the same problem. I figure there are probably a lot of us in this forum.

 

[shawn110975]

now here a question are we all techs, computer consultants, electonic etc. home land security, DOD or some other shit we cant talk about, but computer related?

 

[steveny]

I was thinking of you when I wrote this Steve, you immediately came to mind as someone with the same problem. I figure there are probably a lot of us in this forum.

I hardly ever sleep more than a few hours a night. I have just learned to deal with it and use that time to be productive. If my body's tired but my mind is sharp I either read or write. I used that time to teach myself the options and futures market. The best part about that time is everyone else is sleeping so I can laser focus. Even something as easy as doing the laundry. Anything but staring at the ceiling. However last night I watched six episodes of Ax Men. That was a total waste.

I've got a new project in the works that will keep my nights full. I found an aluminum barrel stand, from a vineyard, that a tenant left behind. It's about 18 inches high and three feet in diameter. There a two inch lip around the outside of the table so I'm gonna fill the table with all kinds of neat stuff then encapsulate it in epoxy. I'm thinking exotic car keys, window stickers, that kind of stuff. Just something to keep my mind busy. I've been using that theater a lot at night. Peter Gabriel has a concert in 3D that's just amazing! Watched it three times now.

 

[sippy2]

now here a question are we all techs, computer consultants, electonic etc. home land security, DOD or some other shit we cant talk about, but computer related?

I am 58 y/o and have fought this since I was in my early 30's...before my world revolved around computers.

 

[docjohn]

anxiety seems to be an issue for you.A couple of things to try.....the human body does need to physicly work..so you need some regular exercise.....a glass of wine before bed may help relieve anxiety.Benzodiazipines are great but have some addictive qualities......What you really need to do is get your brain to relax...it is up to you to figure out why your mind is running through all these isues during bedtime,and try some work arounds like i mentioned.Most reasons folks can't sleep is worrying about money and keeping your family happy/healthy/safe.

 

[clr1024]

I haven't slept well in years, at least 15 years or so, I should say I have OK times being able to sleep then horrible times where I won't sleep for seemingly days. My fiancee said she's never seen anything like it. I have tried Trazadone years ago but I am just groggy in the morning, so I am either in a daze because of the medication, or because I didn't sleep. Ambien does not work on me either.
I excercise a fair amount and was to the point where I was just passing out from sheer exhaustion by the end of the day but that takes a lot out of your body,( I was working out twice a day). Like you I think a lot at night and that's what keeps me up. Friends have suggested yoga and meditation which I have yet to try. Might be worth looking into, I know there's some free meditation help guides out there on audio. Good luck, just wanted to say I feel your pain.

 

[gleibig]

I tried ambien once. I hallucinated and thought the vase on my dresser was a giant clown head and it was trying to steal my watches.

 

[steveny]

I tried ambien once. I hallucinated and thought the vase on my dresser was a giant clown head and it was trying to steal my watches.

Damn, I thought I disguised that clown better than that.

 

[phryxis]

You guys should look into taking Magnesium before bed. Most people have a Mg deficiency, and it is an excellent relaxation aid, that isn't a prescription drug.

Here's an article about it: Huffington Post: The Most Powerful Relaxation Mineral Available

And some random quotes from articles I googled:

http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/living-with-insomnia-11/natural-solutions

Magnesium. Magnesium apparently plays a key role in the regulation of sleep. Research has shown that even marginal magnesium deficiency can prevent the brain from settling down at night. One of the most absorbable forms of magnesium is magnesium citrate powder, available in health food stores. Try taking two doses, following label directions, a day, with the second dose right before bed. You can also get magnesium from food. Good sources include green leafy vegetables, wheat germ, pumpkin seeds, and almonds.

http://www.nutritionalmagnesium.org/articles/insomnia/309-how-magnesium-helps-you-sleep.html

Studies suggest that magnesium deficiency may also be one of the causes of insomnia, a condition that is experienced by an estimated one out of two Americans. Magnesium eases anxiety, relaxes muscles and nerves resulting in an overall improvement of your night’s sleep.

I personally take Doctor's Best Chelated Magnesium and it's been great. I don't personally have sleep problems, but my girl does, and her quality of sleep and ability to go to sleep has improved dramatically after we started taking Mg. I'd suggest taking 2 or 3 of the pills 30 minutes before bed. If you do decide to take Mg, realize the first couple of days you might feel groggy the next day, but it goes away.

Give it a shot, $15 is a small price to pay if it helps you sleep better at night. Best thing of all, it's a mineral, and not a drug.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, another thing I personally do is a sort of meditation. When I am ready to go to sleep, and I'm laying in bed, I literally force myself to think of a pitch black void. I think of pitch black, and force myself to concentrate on this. If thoughts creep into my mind, I keep overriding it with blackness. This is the last thing I remember thinking about every night. The 2nd to last thing is what mods I want to do to my NSX.

 

[RYU]

^^ I have considered ingesting these bad boys. That will fulfill your sleep problems as well as quench parts of your NSX mod list.

In terms of sleep problems. I have them and it's typically work related (as in got too many things to juggle). Daily exercise in the form of swimming, weights, cardio, and yoga have done wonders for me. Still a WIP though because I have an A.D.D. problem when it comes to my To-Do list.

BTW.. I've found that sporadic exercise schedules are actually worse for my sleep schedule. Even twice a week is not enough. It makes my body equilibrium feel totally out of whack. Better not excercise at all and get fat and lazy while sleeping better and dying of a heart attack.

 

[EAC]

anxiety seems to be an issue for you.A couple of things to try.....the human body does need to physicly work..so you need some regular exercise.....a glass of wine before bed may help relieve anxiety.Benzodiazipines are great but have some addictive qualities......What you really need to do is get your brain to relax...it is up to you to figure out why your mind is running through all these isues during bedtime,and try some work arounds like i mentioned.Most reasons folks can't sleep is worrying about money and keeping your family happy/healthy/safe.

^^^ this, or rub a few out

 

[robr]

Hmmm... anxiety? I never considered that, I had to go google to look at symptoms but many do seem to fit. Perhaps much of the root cause is after 13 years of doing startups (hoping one will hit big!!), I'm used to working essentially 24/7, I never turn off. I don't know how to, I don't want to, on the rare occasion I've gone out and forgotten my phone I feel panic. Unless I'm in bed, I'm always in front of a computer or phone doing something. Drives my family crazy. I don't think it's an escape mechanism, I'm just addicted to continually taking in new information. I've been near constantly attached to a computer in one way shape or form for over 35 years. I guess that would mess mess anybody up. Maybe I just need a nice 9-5 job that I can walk away from.... but I love the fast pace of startups. Makes me feel alive to be able to make a difference rather than just another fish in the sea, bogged down in process and lack of agility. And it's not even the equity, I have zero equity in the company I'm at now, but I work just as hard as though I did. I'm addicted.... and perhaps somewhat foolish.

I've also tried the "think of blackness" that someone else mentioned and try to force myself to stay there. I can't do it more than a minute or two. Reading is my escape and relaxation tool.

 

[phryxis]

You're a perfect candidate for magnesium supplements, you should look into it. I've done a lot of research into the topic, and am confident that most people with anxiety issues can be helped by supplementing magnesium.

 

[KSXNSX]

I've been near constantly attached to a computer in one way shape or form for over 35 years.

It's probably many things. Some of the blunter influences being your field of work (high-risk startups), and some of the more acute things being that you use so many gadgets.

I am much the same way, and if you are like me, you are addicted to the internet, your laptop, a TV, your ipad, your phone, etc. You go to sleep with 3 diff devices on.

The light emitted from these gadgets shuts off the production of melatonin in your body, which leads to sleeplessness. This may be one of your problems if you haven't considered it yet. Sorry, didn't get a chance to read through the whole thread.

Try to find your natural rhythm. I know I usually get naturally sleepy around 11PM-11:30PM, but almost always stay up past that time, thereby losing my ability to sleep until much later.

Set one hour of no-gadgets/lighting before that time. Yeah, I know this will be next to impossible. No laptop, phone, ipad, TV, etc. Maybe a soft light bulb, and a book.

Have you tried Schiff Melatonin? Personally, I've found that some brands work better than other (and some don't work at all for me). Schiff is REALLY good for me. Be sure to get the regular type, and not the one with GABA. That leaves me groggy the next day. It used to be available at Costco, and is still available online I think.

Also, you aren't supposed to work out intensely several hours before sleep. It can keep you up. So you might want to adjust your crossfit schedule if you think that could be it.