Yes, agreed that preload and droop are two different things. Can we agree that a spring can be set to 0 preload meaning the spring doesn't bounce around between the top and bottom perch but it can still have some droop depending on how soft the spring rate and how heavy the car is?
Once the weight of the car sits on the springs, they (obviously) won't bounce or rattle around. Yes, at this adjustment of 0 preload, their WILL be droop travel dictated by the spring rate -as you said.
And there's nothing wrong with that - just know what is giving them a "nice ride."
No, it is a combination of spring rate AND dampening.
KWV3's DO NOT HAVE A HIGH SPRING RATE!!!! That's why people going from their Teins to KW's love them.
Here's spring rates of previously-mentioned setups for comparison (courtesy
of Dali):
Front (lb/in) Rear (lb/in)
1997+ NSX 196 224
2003 TypeR 570 465
Comptech Pro 1000 600
Tein Monoflex 674 787
KW V3 350 350
Megan 560 448
As you can see, the KW's have spring rates just a tad more than your OEM ones, yet are still way less than Teins' or Megans. As far as I know, KW's have no magical valving patents like JRZ or Moton, Bilstein, Koni, etc. They just have a standard shim stack. I would like to see a shock dyno of our V3's to see what shim stack design they use. I'm guessing a digressive/linear setup. Now, the bleed holes on your shim stacks is what determines the damper force reaction vs. velocity curves. Shim stacks can be made to have linear characteristics, digresive, or velocity-dependent. Depends on the track/driver.
It's tricky reading through all the perpetuating crap uneducated people post on the internet as "fact." Bottom line is do research (like you are NetViper) and look for objective facts instead of subjective "facts."
Also, I've never heard anyone saying the 2003 TypeR suspension was a decent ride on the street.
Here's a review on my KSports:
http://nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119883
Three years, no leaks, still react the same to my average-quality roads. Now, if you have low-profile tires and desire a stock-like ride, these are not for you. These are the 560/448 lb/in spring rates so they are stiff. But, I also use the OEM 15/16" tires and have decent roads. I also like a stiffer ride.
So, if you do go with Megans, I would recommend you ask for a custom order with ~300lb/in spring rates or less. They'll do this for a small fee. Same with KSports.
Dave
Should be pretty similar in theory.
Mentioned this before as well. 350lbs is so close to your stock rate. Of course it will ride better on the road especially if the damper is valved properly. I then realized people who track their cars with KWs compensate with massive sway bars or simply preferred a lower spring rate which I don't.KWV3's DO NOT HAVE A HIGH SPRING RATE!!!! That's why people going from their Teins to KW's love them.
Are you saying jrz, moton, koni have magical valving? All brands have different design internals or slightly different bypasses and, needle valves, stacks, etc... moton and jrz being pretty much identical.No, it is a combination of spring rate AND dampening.
KWV3's DO NOT HAVE A HIGH SPRING RATE!!!! That's why people going from their Teins to KW's love them.
Here's spring rates of previously-mentioned setups for comparison (courtesy
of Dali):
Front (lb/in) Rear (lb/in)
1997+ NSX 196 224
2003 TypeR 570 465
Comptech Pro 1000 600
Tein Monoflex 674 787
KW V3 350 350
Megan 560 448
As you can see, the KW's have spring rates just a tad more than your OEM ones, yet are still way less than Teins' or Megans. As far as I know, KW's have no magical valving patents like JRZ or Moton, Bilstein, Koni, etc. They just have a standard shim stack. I would like to see a shock dyno of our V3's to see what shim stack design they use. I'm guessing a digressive/linear setup. Now, the bleed holes on your shim stacks is what determines the damper force reaction vs. velocity curves. Shim stacks can be made to have linear characteristics, digresive, or velocity-dependent. Depends on the track/driver.
It's tricky reading through all the perpetuating crap uneducated people post on the internet as "fact." Bottom line is do research (like you are NetViper) and look for objective facts instead of subjective "facts."
Also, I've never heard anyone saying the 2003 TypeR suspension was a decent ride on the street.
Here's a review on my KSports:
http://nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119883
Three years, no leaks, still react the same to my average-quality roads. Now, if you have low-profile tires and desire a stock-like ride, these are not for you. These are the 560/448 lb/in spring rates so they are stiff. But, I also use the OEM 15/16" tires and have decent roads. I also like a stiffer ride.
So, if you do go with Megans, I would recommend you ask for a custom order with ~300lb/in spring rates or less. They'll do this for a small fee. Same with KSports.
Dave
Are those fronts or rear dampers?Mentioned this before as well. 350lbs is so close to your stock rate. Of course it will ride better on the road especially if the damper is valved properly. I then realized people who track their cars with KWs compensate with massive sway bars or simply preferred a lower spring rate which I don't.
No one is saying that KW V3s are bad. They're just so expensive IMHO for what you get. For the folks where money isn't as much of an issue then why didn't you get the JRZs then? Cost is relative for everyone.
On a different note, I agree with e.pie's suggestion on going with Bilsteins and some type of lowered spring setup. I went this route and the street ride was very nice with added mild stiffness in the rate. You just lack any real adjustability and the Bil/spring combo is as heavy as the stock setup. It wasn't until I started going to HPDEs that I wanted a stiffer setup and adjustability in height and damping. I've read some good reviews on the BC's from the Evo and STi forums which is why I started researching them. I'd say, per capita, those guys daily drive AND track their cars much more than over here. You just need to weed thru the boy racers. They then get classified over here as "cheap asian coilovers" so no one tries them and no one provides appropriate feedback.. good or bad.
In terms of ride height with the Bils...
I was also worried of bottoming out the Bils at the ride height I wanted (yes, I know about bump-steer etc). Now i'm wondering if that would have even been the case since the KWs have virtually the same shock body height as the Bils as Stevenlee pointed out on another thread. Then why is bottoming out the Bils such a concern but not for the KWs?
Are those fronts or rear dampers?[/QUOTE]Are you saying jrz, moton, koni have magical valving? All brands have different design internals or slightly different bypasses and, needle valves, stacks, etc... moton and jrz being pretty much identical.
What do you nean by digressive/linear.
[I have the 450lb clubsport rates on my V3s and the ride quality is still very good.
Another problems with many coilovers is the use of very high rear spring rates. The rear wheel rate becomes ALOT more than the front which makes for a looser more oversteering car. The KWs front rates are almost 3x more than oem while the rears are a hundred lbs more. The V3 is a sporty and track competant coilover. If track driving is more of the focus then i would suggest the KW clubsport rates or put the NSX-R spring rates on.
The V3s will not perform like koni yellows. The valving is different and the KWs use a larger diameter piston which is better for control.
QUOTE=RYU;1503025]Mentioned this before as well. 350lbs is so close to your stock rate. Of course it will ride better on the road especially if the damper is valved properly. I then realized people who track their cars with KWs compensate with massive sway bars or simply preferred a lower spring rate which I don't.
No one is saying that KW V3s are bad. They're just so expensive IMHO for what you get. For the folks where money isn't as much of an issue then why didn't you get the JRZs then? Cost is relative for everyone.
On a different note, I agree with e.pie's suggestion on going with Bilsteins and some type of lowered spring setup. I went this route and the street ride was very nice with added mild stiffness in the rate. You just lack any real adjustability and the Bil/spring combo is as heavy as the stock setup. It wasn't until I started going to HPDEs that I wanted a stiffer setup and adjustability in height and damping. I've read some good reviews on the BC's from the Evo and STi forums which is why I started researching them. I'd say, per capita, those guys daily drive AND track their cars much more than over here. You just need to weed thru the boy racers. They then get classified over here as "cheap asian coilovers" so no one tries them and no one provides appropriate feedback.. good or bad.
In terms of ride height with the Bils...
I was also worried of bottoming out the Bils at the ride height I wanted (yes, I know about bump-steer etc). Now i'm wondering if that would have even been the case since the KWs have virtually the same shock body height as the Bils as Stevenlee pointed out on another thread. Then why is bottoming out the Bils such a concern but not for the KWs?
Steven, would love to see a rear comparison if you have them also. Your pic spoke novels...
It's been asked before as well. Here's to hoping someone can provide one!
