Best Coilovers for under a grand?

[docjohn]

amazing Dave..you now have 5000.$ worth of thread for a 999.$ suspension.Prime delivers good value:biggrin:

 

[NetViper]

amazing Dave..you now have 5000.$ worth of thread for a 999.$ suspension.Prime delivers good value:biggrin:

It is getting intresting for sure. Lots of good stuff.

Here is a new question.

Several have said the dampers are junk on Megan or BC and that a Bilstein setup is a much higher quality shock and I am better off with Bilstein + OEM Springs.... why are the dampers junk?

Bilstien setup: $650 shipped. Set of Springs $300. Total $950.

So what makes that so much better than a BC setup: Total $1000.

I can't see that the price of the BC or Megan shocks means they bad dampers considering it is problably within pennies of the Bilstein.

 

[Moses]

So where can I get the Zanardi springs.

 

[e.pie]

It is getting intresting for sure. Lots of good stuff.

Here is a new question.

Several have said the dampers are junk on Megan or BC and that a Bilstein setup is a much higher quality shock and I am better off with Bilstein + OEM Springs.... why are the dampers junk?

Bilstien setup: $650 shipped. Set of Springs $300. Total $950.

So what makes that so much better than a BC setup: Total $1000.

I can't see that the price of the BC or Megan shocks means they bad dampers considering it is problably within pennies of the Bilstein.

It's all in the valving, cheap coilovers have poor valving, adjustment knobs that do next to nothing, low quality control, etc.


There is a really good thread about various coilovers over on MotoIQ
http://www.motoiq.com/forum/afv/topic/aff/15/aft/134/afpg/1.aspx

 

[docjohn]

So where can I get the Zanardi springs.

I got mine from my local dealer.with a set of koni yellows from tire rack that susp was about 1100. I liked it .

 

[RYU]

So what makes that so much better than a BC setup: Total $1000.

I'm not sure you'll get good feedback on the BC's in this forum. I think you'll instead get some folks who will classify them as "cheap asian coilovers" which has been the case on previous threads.

I posted on a different thread on here a review (with a shock dyno) on the BC's but I can't find it atm. I believe they were the ER series. At the time BC only sold the NSX specific set in BR series. The range and stability of the shock adjustment seemed pretty good. I would like to see someone order a set from them but get them revalved for say a 7-8K/8-9K setup on Swift springs. It's too bad they don't make the inverted monotube with external reservoir for the NSX.

There's a ton of reviews online for other cars. Don't have your NSXPrime blinders on and read away!

EDIT TO ADD: Found the review with dyno plots. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1804991

 

[d.n]

The above Dyno on the Suby site is the trend I've seen on some of these "lower brand" monotubes is to have essentially a single adjustable shock with low bump and adjustable rebound that goes quite high. From what I've seen on my other car, this allowed the use of a stiffer spring while still feeling "softish". On the road I believe that initial softness is what allowed that setup to absorb road imperfections on the street and kept the tires planted over berms / rumble strips on the track while still having the stiffer spring rate to reduce weight transfer. On the street I dialed back the rebound and had an "acceptably" firm/sporty ride. I actually prefer this setup now, but have been told by real setup guys that this type of shock setup has unwanted side effects (somebody who knows will hopefully chime in)

Also I should mention that I didn't read much of the review, but the comment about spring lengths leads me to believe that the OP on that post does not understand compression / droop travel at all which says a lot as far as experience in the area of adjustable coilovers (I consider myself very junior in this area)

 

[d.n]

Okay I found it, here is the review of the setup I'm running on my other car. While not BC per se, the shock dyno seems to be set up similarly so I hope you all consider this relevant. Post #51 is the review to read. My own notes on the street setup with softer springs are in post #112

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=416705&highlight=dgr&page=3

shock dyno numbers for that setup to show the similar setup (low bump, high adjustable rebound)
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=427406

 

[N Spec]

One note I will add about the bilsteins are that they have a slight cold squeak. Not an issue if you don't drive in winter, but still noticeable when temps are below ~70F. I have tried lubes and they help, but they wear out eventually. Otherwise the bilsteins are great and are definitely firmer than stock.

 

[EZdoesIt]

So I got really curious about the KW V3 NSXprime owners seems to be so enamored with. There really is a huge halo effect on the KWs here than on other forums i've noticed and it's really hilarious.

Someone please help me understand why someone is willing to pay $2400+ these coilovers. Here's what I see so far as a new comer.

* It's a steel body shock so weight savings just went out the door.
* Who makes their springs? KW? I'm expecting Eibach or Swift to justify the premium.
* The street ride is great...well ok that's also a benefit of the soft spring rate. Even someone here mentioned they up the rate to 450#. Hell... put a set of linear rate lowering springs on Bilsteins and you'll likely get the same comfort - just w/o the adjustment. So if I want higher rates does that mean I have to buy new springs at even more costs?
* On the point of adjustment... So I have to remove the tire or jack up the car to make an adjustment because the bump adjustment is on the bottom? I guess the rebound is up top? Why didn't they make it simple (it's a street/sport shock afterall) and do just one valve to adjust compression/rebound at the same time?
* This doesn't have an adjustable lower shock bracket which allows you adjust your spring preload independent of ride height. Yes, this might not even be a pro for some tuners so that's a wash I guess.
* The biggest kicker... and this practically hit me like a semi truck. You have to use the factory upper cup from the oem setup? They're kidding right?.. a $2400 set and they don't give you a proper cup mount or monoball? Evidently that's extra...
* So this leaves the magical valving? What am I missing? I'll pitch in for an independent shock dyno test. I'd like to hear more than just it turns great around corners.

Just trying to justify the outrageous price... but really more trying to justify what everyone is seeing that i'm not. What I am seeing is forum bandwagon effect. I'd probably pay $1600-1800 for a set IF the damping was really that good. $2400...?

Honestly... I admire the marketing machine KW folks have implemented. Not sure i'd buy their product (yet) but i'd certainly buy their stock!

No offense to current owners but i'm hoping, really hoping, to see/hear more than just forum heresay. This isn't f-chat or honda-tech...at least I thought.

 

[stevenlee]

RYU asked for a photo of the rear shocks,
I purchased a spare set of KW's to study them and compare them with OEM shocks, but I was able to buy a single Bilstein and I only bought the front shock to study it.
Sorry no Bilstein in this photo of rear OEM & KW shocks.

Note that the OEM body is about 1/2 inch longer than the KW and the OEM shaft is about 1-3/8 inch longer than the KW.

 

[stuntman]

Nsxprime has turned in to MR2OC.

Theres a great shock comparison done by SCC with shock dynos and sweeps through the adjustment range for many brands including KW for the s2000.

Fwiw KW is the oem supplier for Mercedes' black series cars, viper acr, novitec rosso, and has a Motorsports branch which has won many professional championships. They are hugely popular in the porsche and bmw crowd and get a lot of positive feedback on forums other than our small little one.

 

[NetViper]

They are hugely popular in the porsche and bmw crowd and get a lot of positive feedback on forums other than our small little one.

There is lots of positive feedback on the KW here to. Nobody is saying they are not great. The question again is are the BR coliovers good enough for most drivers who do not track their cars.

 

[Mac Attack]

I'm not saying KW's aren't worth it.

As someone that deals with the strictest QA in the world, it is easy to see why the KW's are priced where they are.

In order to be an OE supplier, sure, they had to go with a SS body, special plastic adjustable collar, and very tight quality control. All that jacks up overhead and therefore price.

There is nothing special about their valving or performance. In fact, on the track, the M3's I drove with KW's was not a very pleasing experience. Spring rates are too soft for serious track performance. However, I agree that these are a great mix of everyday driver and occasional HPDE's.

It's a personal decision if you want to spend an extra $1k+ on these over the cheaper Asian coilovers. Keep in mind it will mainly be for peace of mind knowing the quality is as OE as you can get.

Personally, I went with a "cheap" Asian coilover since:
- I don't have to drive my car during the winter in the rust belt, and don't need the SS body or corrosion-resistance of the KW's.
- Prefer a stiffer spring rate than 350lb/in.
- Felt that the Asian quality had improved enough to "take a chance on them."

FYI - I went with the $2500 version of the "cheap Asian coilovers." So, I was taking a pretty big chance. KW's hadn't been released at that time. As stated before, after three years they perform the same as new, haven't leaked, and haven't rusted apart

Would I but KSports again? Definitely! If I had to spend my $2500 to spend again, would I buy the same model? Probably. It would be a tough call if I wanted to add another $1500 and get some rebuilt used Motons or something like that.

Here they are after three years and ~25k miles:

 

[stuntman]

There is lots of positive feedback on the KW here to. Nobody is saying they are not great. The question again is are the BR coliovers good enough for most drivers who do not track their cars.

Thats almost unanswerable. People can only buy it and report back with subjective feedback if they are happy or not. Since every situation is different, whether its a better fit for a person is also subjective. A side by side dyno comparison wouldnt hurt though.

People are often very defensive and protective of their purchasing decision. I frankly dont really care much since ive driven on most options available for the nsx on the nsx except some of the recent offerings and am just trying to clarify misconceptions on many ends. However it is getting a bit old with a lack of two way questions and interactions and everyone is entitled to buy whatever they want.

 

[NetViper]

Thats almost unanswerable. People can only buy it and report back with subjective feedback if they are happy or not. Since every situation is different, whether its a better fit for a person is also subjective. A side by side dyno comparison wouldnt hurt though.

People are often very defensive and protective of their purchasing decision. I frankly dont really care much since ive driven on most options available for the nsx on the nsx except some of the recent offerings and am just trying to clarify misconceptions on many ends. However it is getting a bit old with a lack of two way questions and interactions and everyone is entitled to buy whatever they want.

I appreciate your opinion in the thread a lot. I also realize you are the 1% that drives their NSX faster than anyone else on the planet. So our needs our different.

I am curious why you went with the KW set up vs the Motons?

 

[Mac Attack]

People are often very defensive and protective of their purchasing decision.

You are exactly right. That's what I tell A LOT of people to try and not read into the fanboy hype of various products on the internet.

Not only do you have to weed through people's purchase defense, but you also need to read through folks hype of the products they are sponsored by.

It is hard to get completely objective viewpoints of any product review for those reasons and the fact that we are all different in what we like. :wink:

Dave

 

[Mac Attack]

I appreciate your opinion in the thread a lot. I also realize you are the 1% that drives their NSX faster than anyone else on the planet. So our needs our different.

I am curious why you went with the KW set up vs the Motons?

Probably because of the KW sponsorship.

I'm sure there was also a significant price break for buying them on the personal cars. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Dave

 

[stuntman]

You are exactly right. That's what I tell A LOT of people to try and not read into the fanboy hype of various products on the internet.

Not only do you have to weed through people's purchase defense, but you also need to read through folks hype of the products they are sponsored by.

It is hard to get completely objective viewpoints of any product review for those reasons and the fact that we are all different in what we like. :wink:

Dave

You forget i had teins, koni yellow ground control, and kw on MY own car. Let alone all the other nsxs ive driven, including a ksport equipped car. I could have had a set of motons but since i was so happy with kws on many other cars ive driven i wanted to try them on the nsx back before they even offered them for our cars. It fits my street comfort and track competence needs and i wanted to explore a system that fit a void in the nsx market for price and oerformance. Ive played with 3-way motons on nsxs for years and won many rime attacks on them but their price point is hard for most of the community to swollow. Id rather play and tune something that more people can benefit on. You dont think i could have had a set of motons for free?

You do come off as defensive on your ksports. I frankly dont care much on the kw front other than to clarify misconceptions and help people tune their cars for probably the first coilover kit without very high (esp rear) spring rates -which i like).

 

[Mac Attack]

You forget i had teins, koni yellow ground control, and kw on MY own car. Let alone all the other nsxs ive driven, including a ksport equipped car. I could have had a set of motons but since i was so happy with kws on many other cars ive driven i wanted to try them on the nsx back before they even offered them for our cars. It fits my street comfort and track competence needs and i wanted to explore a system that fit a void in the nsx market for price and oerformance. Ive played with 3-way motons on nsxs for years and won many rime attacks on them but their price point is hard for most of the community to swollow. Id rather play and tune something that more people can benefit on. You dont think i could have had a set of motons for free?

You do come off as defensive on your ksports. I frankly dont care much on the kw front other than to clarify misconceptions and help people tune their cars for probably the first coilover kit without very high (esp rear) spring rates -which i like).

Obviously touched a nerve there.

FYI - One of my old racing sponsors used to be Penske. I've had the best in the racing industry before, thank you. It's obvious you don't know much about the technical aspects of shock design (your question on what digressive/linear meant earlier), but your hype of KW products made me point out the obvious sponsorship bias for other folks to help make up their own minds.

I don't have any personal gain stating my unbiased opinion on the KSports. They didn't give them to me, I'm not sponsored by them, and I did a lot of research before their purchase. They've held up well and I'm just trying to dispel with the old-fashioned notion that the Asian coilovers are junk. IMO, I think KSports are about the same design and qulity as Teins. Also, the KSports have a soft rear too :wink:

I think a lot of good information has come from this thread. Hopefully it will help the OP in their decision.

Dave

 

[stuntman]

Obviously touched a nerve there.

FYI - One of my old racing sponsors used to be Penske. I've had the best in the racing industry before, thank you. It's obvious you don't know much about the technical aspects of shock design (your question on what digressive/linear meant earlier), but your hype of KW products made me point out the obvious sponsorship bias for other folks to help make up their own minds.

I don't have any personal gain stating my unbiased opinion on the KSports. They didn't give them to me, I'm not sponsored by them, and I did a lot of research before their purchase. They've held up well and I'm just trying to dispel with the old-fashioned notion that the Asian coilovers are junk. IMO, I think KSports are about the same design and qulity as Teins. Also, the KSports have a soft rear too :wink:

I think a lot of good information has come from this thread. Hopefully it will help the OP in their decision.

Dave

Its pretty obvious the you felt attacked with the 'cheap asian coilover' when that comment wasnt directed at you or ksport.

I apologize i couldnt read your mind with the 'digressive/linear' comment when it could have been interpreted that you used the "/" to mean they are the same thing since you sid not elaborate digressive comp and linear rebound.

I dont care to get into a pissing match on credentials which is really taking away from this thread. But youre probably right, even though the company i drive for who uses penskes in the top form of racing in the country or the car i compete with which uses ASTs which have almost identical internals as penskes. No shock company has a magical valving or design, and you can make many designs win with work. It just depends how hard you want to work.

I like kws the way you like ksports. We gave our feedback and all this banter is just a waste of time. Im glad you like your ksports. They were pretty good. But i think you need to ket it go and move on.

For the record my kws on my m3 werent free ir sponsored. I do like them that much for my intended uses.

 

[docjohn]

Dave time for you to choose something,and let us know how it goes.....but make sure to ride in as many cars as possible next month.

 

[ken sampson]

After reading all this I just ordered my KW-V3's found them for 2070.00 delivered. Shad also gave me some very good feed back on them.
They will replace my Bil's
Ken

 

[RYU]

Jesus H. Christ. Please tell me how you keep your car so darn clean.

Here they are after three years and ~25k miles:

 

[BATMANs]

After reading all this I just ordered my KW-V3's found them for 2070.00 delivered......

is this just for you or is this price for anyone? If it's for everyone, mind sharing the source?