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Big Brake Kit using Acura RL calipers

Nice work as far as the cosmetic upgrade goes but I'm going to agree with Hugh here. My E92 M3 went to Stoptech to be prototyped for their first BBK kit for my car. There was a considerable amount of work done to make sure it was a balanced kit. At the time, Stoptech basically just had the 6, 4, and 2 piston calipers. The new Trophy series was not available. But these calipers could have any combination of piston diameters by themselves. They all start off the same squeeze forged caliper with pilot holes but the piston diameters set them apart. I wouldn't even consider buying an ST60 caliper unless it was the same one that they chose for my car and with the same rotors.

This works great for the look though!
 
Nice work as far as the cosmetic upgrade goes but I'm going to agree with Hugh here.

Salvation! Thanks MR. Gotta see if they have the Trophy for the NSX ready yet. Maybe I'll upgrade my ST-40s. Anyone interested in a used but loved for set? :)
 
Could I use the RL rotors instead of custom rotors?
Whats the price of a Stop Tech BBK frt set? What are the Rotora's like ?
 
This is not an option. The nsx abs is hooked up diagonally. RF and LR tied together as are LF and RR. You would need two valves not one. I have not heard of this working properly.

Jeez, I didn't even think of that. I'm shaking my head at myself right now.

Differing pads may be your only option right now outside of playing with different caliper and rotor combinations. However, I'd be careful tracking it until you get the pad combo dialed in. Though it wouldn't be as "exciting" as an extreme rear wheel bias, you may be leaving some braking performance on the table still.

Good luck!

PS - aren't the Stoptechs front BBKs specifically balanced with the stock braking bias?
 
Hey now! I drive with these calipers.....

strf1.jpg

Is this your car? Love the wheels!
 
Hugh said:
Thanks MR. Gotta see if they have the Trophy for the NSX ready yet.

I'm thinking about getting a set to upgrade my existing ST60 and ST40 set on the BMW. There will be 2 versions, a full race version and a streetable version. For the street version, there would be no other benefit than having different looking calipers and weight savings.

Whats the price of a Stop Tech BBK frt set? What are the Rotora's like ?

Rotora was the first to offer sponsorship to my BMW. I did a lot of research on them, talked to people that tracked with them and came to the conclusion that they were not on par. The people I talked to complained about "clapping" a phenomenon that was well known by their original supplier whom put in a design element to prevent clapping but was subsequently removed by Rotora to make the caliper design different. Not one of the people I talked to who tracked with Rotora brakes would have recommended them to me so I stayed away.
 
Rotora was the first to offer sponsorship to my BMW. I did a lot of research on them, talked to people that tracked with them and came to the conclusion that they were not on par. The people I talked to complained about "clapping" a phenomenon that was well known by their original supplier whom put in a design element to prevent clapping but was subsequently removed by Rotora to make the caliper design different. Not one of the people I talked to who tracked with Rotora brakes would have recommended them to me so I stayed away.
Apparently Rotora had a huge influx of cash, R&D, and resources and their products made a huge jump in improvement. Ive driven on a few Rotora systems years ago and would agree with what you have heard.

Recently, I did the 25 Hours of Thunderhill in the E0 class in an E36 M3 that was equipped with Rotora's new 6 piston front caliper and 4 piston rear. We finished 1st in class and 2nd overall. The brakes were phenomenal -despite my initial hesitation and skepticism before driving the car. The brakes remained consistent and had great pedal feel (wasn't the best pad choice though) and I would definitely recommend them.

02_thill_top_tenish.jpg

51_thill_afternoon_drop.jpg


James Clay of Bimmerworld stated that replacing the Fronts calipers only (on an M3) moves the brake bias very slightly rearward. The only disadvantage is you don't get the full benefit up front, but no real negatives.

-Similar feedback to my post #9.
 
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Don't know the dimensions of TL-s, just worked with this one caliper from the Acura line. Most sets I build are with Brembo calipers.

The TL-s caliper IS a brembo . You probably mean radial mount brembo though .
 
The TL-s caliper IS a brembo . You probably mean radial mount brembo though .

OK. Brembo supplies calipers for many models of many brands. Good point, but not relevant to this thread.

These RL calipers are made by ADVICS, cast on the back of the caliper. Part # 45018-SJA-A01 & 45019-SJA-A01, used on 2005-2008, some 2009 models. These are radial mounts.

All other Brembo I build around have been new calipers, supplied by Brembo Racing North America.
 
OK. Brembo supplies calipers for many models of many brands. Good point, but not relevant to this thread.

These RL calipers are made by ADVICS, cast on the back of the caliper. Part # 45018-SJA-A01 & 45019-SJA-A01, used on 2005-2008, some 2009 models. These are radial mounts.

All other Brembo I build around have been new calipers, supplied by Brembo Racing North America.
+1

Heck, many companies can buy the rights to use the name "Brembo" on their own products, they don't have to be designed or manufactured by Brembo, which is unfortunate. The Nissan R35 GTR is an example of this. The pads, rotors, and calipers all 'say' Brembo but none of which were designed or manufactured by Brembo.

Brembo Racing North America? That's a pretty good contact, how'd you get that? :wink:
 
+1

Brembo Racing North America? That's a pretty good contact, how'd you get that? :wink:

+1, indeed!

Brembo Race Engineer is a mountain biker:wink:, as well as friend of many racing NSXers, yourself included, Factor X Factory/Works Driver(hired gun...).:biggrin:
 
One thing I was considering for down the line is to swap out the front calipers for Spoon monoblock aluminum calipers. Supposedly, the Spoon S2000 AP2 calipers will mount right up to the NSX with a bracket you can get from Spoon. One prime member did this I think... Anyway, maybe this setup would be closer to OEM balance then a TL/RL/Brembo BBK caliper? Just a thought.
 
I will be getting a set of Spoon monoblocks for my 99 soon. And I can keep the stock rotors
 
I will be getting a set of Spoon monoblocks for my 99 soon. And I can keep the stock rotors

Why not save the money and keep the stock brakes:confused::confused:

What is your goal with making the change?

Stock rotors with different calipers, at best will give you stock 'like braking'. Most cases, braking will be poorer and you didn't even fill up the wheel like we did with the RL set.

I don't get it...help me here
 
^^^+1
even using oem calipers (bracket changed) on a larger rotor would be better if you are trying to save money. unless it is all for the 'look'.
 
Unsprung weight savings, better high-temp durability and the linear feel of a non-floating caliper is what I was thinking about. Though, this would probably be one of the last mods to my NSX, since the money is better spent elsewhere at this point, like on Skip Barber. :D

Why not save the money and keep the stock brakes:confused::confused:

What is your goal with making the change?

Stock rotors with different calipers, at best will give you stock 'like braking'. Most cases, braking will be poorer and you didn't even fill up the wheel like we did with the RL set.

I don't get it...help me here
 
What bracket is needed for the Spoon's. I emailed [email protected] and he said i would not need adapters for my 99 and I would be able to use my stock rotors.
 
The guy that got his ass chewed off for it was me. I came up with the RL brake setup about two years ago. Let me clarify:

There are many factors to a brake setup. Those of you who believe your NSX brakes are the best thing since sliced bread and want optimal bias, leave the car alone.

The big benefit of the RL calipers guys...is that it is one of the lightest and biggest calipers I've ever come across. its only 7lbs compared to the NSX's almost 14lbs. Its a weight reduction in unsprung weight if you get rotors that are less than a few lbs heavier than stock.

In terms of bias, no one ever said to JUST upgrade the front and leave the rear alone. This is why 4 pot caliper kits for all 4 wheels are like 4,000$ and I was selling the front RL upgrade completeted for under a grand. You will want to upgrade the back either to the 97 spec or via some type of relocator, and with ABS, you can get damn close to optimal bias, but absolutley perfect bias may be just for a stock car, hell going with bigger and way wider wheels and more agressive pads is prone to shift it maybe a percent or two but come on, in terms of fade resistance and weight loss, your lap times are gonna go down. I drive a Civic without ABS, i got a lot more biasing issues to consider than you guys with race designed suspension and ABS which is gonna push the brakes to their limits easier than I can do with my foot.

Oh, and those "stoptech" painted rotors are Brembo calipers from a Porsche 911 turbo from the mid 90s. I just happen to know it by looking at it.


The RL calipers are a radial mount compared to the TL-S which are tabular. Those also have SUCH an offset that the front rotor is gonna need to have an offset of about 0. (super short hat). The RL 4 pot caliper is way better, much better designed pad, and its a better designed caliper. AS good as the TL-S is made by brembo, i do not believe brembo to be the absolute best caliper manufacturer on the planet, I would put Nissin just above them. The RL caliper is made by Advics, a derivitive of Sumitomo (rememer those 300ZX and RX7 aluminum 4 pots?) based in America. It is a better design if you ask me, and the pad is bigger, and uses a more honda-like pad shape with obtuse leading and trailing edges and an overall design that promotes more radial heat distribution. The RL with these brakes is an AWD with electonic diffs, not a FWD, and was way heavier than the TL-S (its over 4000lbs!!!) and being only in automatic, bigger brakes were needed.

Bottom line, the RL caliper rocks and after this many years IS better than the NSX caliper, but you gotta do your homework and/or own testing for those of you who want "100% perfect bias". My civic with 205/45 tires can stop from 60 in under 90 feet with 4 wheel NSX brakes (97 in the front and 91 in the back.) Hows my bias? Pretty bad in the rain!!
 
Oh, and those "stoptech" painted rotors are Brembo calipers from a Porsche 911 turbo from the mid 90s. I just happen to know it by looking at it.

Directly from StopTech's web site.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/faqs.shtml#12

Isn't the StopTech ST-40 caliper is the same as a Brembo or Porsche Big Red?

The ST-40 is a completely new caliper designed specifically to perform on the street and track. The Patented "Bolt-in" Bridge is unique to our design, making the ST-40 two times stiffer than the competition. The ST-40 offers 8 different piston diameters to choose from, so the caliper can be made to specifically balance any application. The ST-40 can be made to fit from 28 to 35mm thick rotors and 328 to 380mm rotor diameters. Dust boots are standard on all street calipers, and commonly available pad wear sensors can be used. Though the ST-40 will mount in the same place as a Brembo F-40 or F-50 caliper and uses common pistons and seals, it is a superior caliper in terms of stiffness, versatility and price. Porsche Big Red calipers have a taller pad and require a larger rotor annulus (heavier rotor). While this taller pad sometimes lasts longer, for a given rotor and piston size the brake torque is less.
 
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