Camber Correction Hardware

[Thom]

Design and testing is finished and the final product is complete and ready. It’s been almost a year since this project started, but thankfully it has taken this long; a better product is the result. The issues have been worked through, testing has shown solid design, and fitment is now universal. The gain of camber is calculated to be +2°±0.2° . The following is the description of the USPTO Patent Pending product. I think most will be excited.

After lowering your NSX, this is the only product that can return your NSX to OEM specifications. The product replaces the rear upper control arm axial compliant bushings with non-compliant self lubricating polymer bearing material mated to a billet T6-6061 offset pivot; offsetting the axial pivot of the upper control arm away from the chassis allows a gain of about +2.0±0.2° of positive camber. As a legal statement, these parts are not street legal; liability is assumed by the buyer.

1) The first illustration is of the rear-upper-control-arm with OEM compliant bearing. A red line illustrates the current axial position in line with the mounting holes.


2) The second illustration is of the rear-upper-control-arm containing the Patent Pending camber correction bearings. Two red lines illustrate the offset from OEM axial pivot point.


3) The third picture illustrates the OEM axial bushings, bottom pieces, next to the Patent Pending camber correction bearings, top pieces.



The first run of production will be finished in the next few weeks and will make 13 sets available. The first kits will cost $450 plus shipping and appropriate taxes; introductory price. Depending on how fast these parts move will determine production volume in the future. If you want to be added to the list please reply. Preorder and pay if you desire to bump production numbers.

Though this is not intended to be a DIY kit, a shop that can press out the OEM pivots would be required; installation of the new parts requires specially designed tools. Currently the option is to remove the rear-upper-control-arm send it to Ayotte Technologies (405 Appalachian Way, McKinney, Texas 75071) for removal of old hardware and installation of the new hardware. Negotiations are being made to have a multiple regional shops, including a local Dallas/Ft. Worth NSX shop perform the installation on site. If you send your product to Ayotte Tech. once an upper-control-arm set is received it will be shipped back within the day, pending payment, and product availability. Out of state (Texas) residents are responsible for sales tax. Texas residents will incur local tax rate on the order. Please send PM on Prime to insure a kit is available before sending you control-arm or payment.

The following is an alphabetized list of those who specifically stated a desire for this kit. These individuals have first shot on the kit and will only be charged introductory price, whenever they have the kit installed.

http://www.geocities.com/thomayotte/AyotteTech.html

03 raw nsx
1TITENSX*
ACCD
ALIENT
atatexan
burbel
Carmine
Chudson1549
Distance runner
Diveboy
Esprit1*
evof575gtc
fdnsx
heretic
HUNTJAMES
Hydro
I Grok NSX
I want NSX
ivanj
jorligan
jorma
kkt
mackash
Matt_337
mmerical
my1stnsx
NSX FoYoAss*
nsxpurextc
nsx4jack
nsxinohio
nsxsupra
NY2NV
Odenspike
Phongnsx
pixelhaus*
PoohBEAR
racer-ex
RudeBoy_baby_NSX
Shumdit
SilverStone05
skyguy
SNDSOUL
Stick-e-rice
TS5NSX
Viper Driver
winreboot

[email protected] (2 sets)


Before and After picts see the following thread

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68657

 

[NSFRBLX]

Very nice!

Simple but effective by the looks of it.

 

[goldNSX]

Good to know it's finished.

Exchange program?

Pics of them installed on a car like before/after.

Some questions: If you do the correction to the rear-upper-control-arm doesn't that mean that the tire/wheel will move outward and could scratch the fender if correction is done too excessively? Orelse why not correct at the lower control arm which would prevent most of the scratching (the tire would move outward too but by less amount for the same correction in degrees)?

 

[Thom]

Good to know it's finished.

Exchange program?

Pics of them installed on a car like before/after.

Some questions: If you do the correction to the rear-upper-control-arm doesn't that mean that the tire/wheel will move outward and could scratch the fender if correction is done too excessively? Orelse why not correct at the lower control arm which would prevent most of the scratching (the tire would move outward too but by less amount for the same correction in degrees)?

Scraping should not occur. The wheel still maintains its natural arc under compression and will tuck into the wheel well.

 

[KooLaid]

Does the $450 intro price include install of the new parts into my arms or will it be a "swap my stocks for your modded arms"?

 

[Thom]

Does the $450 intro price include install of the new parts into my arms or will it be a "swap my stocks for your modded arms"?

It will be an install of new hardware into your uppers. The Ball joint is not removable from the upper arm, and I'm sure you don't want someone elses upper with a worn out ball joint. The great thing about this is if you choose to get new upper-control-arms, due to ball joint wear, the camber correction hardware can be transfered to the new upper. New polymer bearings would be required if this occurred.

Also, the self lubricating polymer bearings are replacable and can be replaced if they wear down beyond tolerance. The polymer bearing material used is one of the strongest, lowest wear in harsher environments than the NSX and should last you several years before any thought of replacement. The proto-type camber hardware that has been under test for the last year shows nearly zero wear on the polymer bearing.

 

[Thom]

Good to know it's finished.

Exchange program?

Pics of them installed on a car like before/after.

Some questions: If you do the correction to the rear-upper-control-arm doesn't that mean that the tire/wheel will move outward and could scratch the fender if correction is done too excessively? Orelse why not correct at the lower control arm which would prevent most of the scratching (the tire would move outward too but by less amount for the same correction in degrees)?

Before and after pics can be viewed at the following link:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68657

 

[JeffShoots]

Few questions:

How do I know if I need to be corrected :biggrin:

With a 1" drop I can still get my track alignment so what alignment is this setup for?

And is this like the H&R Camber kit?

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84262

 

[odenspike]

Awesome Thom! :biggrin:

For those interested I have seen the prototypes in person and things look great and definetly works!

Now for us technically challenged people can somebody put together a step by step removal write up of the control arm? :smile:


Charlie

 

[Thom]

Few questions:

How do I know if I need to be corrected :biggrin:

With a 1" drop I can still get my track alignment so what alignment is this setup for?

And is this like the H&R Camber kit?

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84262

If you're using your NSX for the track and the current aggressive alignment works, you probably don't need this hardware. This hardware is for NSXes that have been lowered to any degree that cannot be returned to OEM camber specs even with the most extrem adjustments of the OEM camber adjustment cams, and need a return to OEM specs or more. It would mrerly give you a more positive camber adjustment capability than you currently have; sometimes that is good, but you have to be the judge.

 

[JeffShoots]

Cool, I think I got it now.

If you drop the car say 1.25" to 1.50" this would allow for OEM camber settings?

Or for a guy that only streets the car and wants the most mileage out of a set of tires and doesnt care about a loss of handling.
They could also run the same alignment as say a diesel 1 ton truck :smile:

I don't see how you guys with 1.25" + drop can drive your car on the street. With just a 1" drop I scrape on EVERYTHING but my "crabwalking" curb entering skills have increased

Thanks for your time, Jeff

If you're using your NSX for the track and the current aggressive alignment works, you probably don't need this hardware. This hardware is for NSXes that have been lowered to any degree that cannot be returned to OEM camber specs even with the most extrem adjustments of the OEM camber adjustment cams, and need a return to OEM specs or more. It would mrerly give you a more positive camber adjustment capability than you currently have; sometimes that is good, but you have to be the judge.

 

[Thom]

Cool, I think I got it now.

If you drop the car say 1.25" to 1.50" this would allow for OEM camber settings?

Or for a guy that only streets the car and wants the most mileage out of a set of tires and doesnt care about a loss of handling.
They could also run the same alignment as say a diesel 1 ton truck :smile:...

LOL.

Anyhow, let me elaborate some more.

Someone that lowers there car 1.25-1.5" goes from OEM camber to anywhere from -2.2° or more in the rears. That includes the possible 1.33° adjustment capable in the cams. If the adjustments were dialed all the way out that would be -3.5°

I've even heard as much as 3.5° with one lowering, which +2.2° savings would set the rears within OEM specs without much adjustment. (neg, 3.5-2.2 = 1.3, and allow for adjustment from about neg 1.3-2.6° using the cams)

If an NSX was lowered and at best had -2.4° the hardware after installed would allow for a possible adjustment from about neg 0.2-1.5°; that's OEM capable.

Though it wouldn't be aggressively trackable like yours, OEM settings still provide great turning in most conditions.

For those who dial to -0.2°, they can get better straight away grip.

One NSXer has tires so wide, he can't get the entire patch of tire on the ground to produce all the grip capable. In his situation even if the wheels were nearly straight up the wide tires would produce more grip than most tracked cars.

 

[BlKeViL]

Congrats Thom, lets do another BBQ day/install at my shop one weekend. I have the first set of camber kit beside Thom and it awesome guys.

 

[ChopsJazz]

Congratulations Thom on seeing this project through to completion!

 

[Thom]

Awesome Thom! :biggrin:

For those interested I have seen the prototypes in person and things look great and definetly works!

Now for us technically challenged people can somebody put together a step by step removal write up of the control arm? :smile:


Charlie

Charlie,

I'll try to put something together for you and your type to help you guys remove the upper control arm. There are plenty of others, like Larry B. that can get you going in the right direction.

Thom

 

[Texas91Brent]

Will these work with air suspension too? If so , put me on the list. thks Brent:biggrin:

 

[titaniumdave]

Nice and simple idea, screaming good deal at $450 for all 4 parts installed!

What finish are you using on the 6061 to deal with abrasion? I have found polymers are much tougher than un-coated aluminum. I have had limited success with hard coat anodizing, but it always wears off with time. I have gone to electro-less nickle on my bearing parts, it looks promising!

Will you be offering non-offset parts for guys who just want better handling and are OK with the camber they have? That seems like good price point up-grade if they will hold up to track use. Have you loaded them with R- compounds and race alignment yet?

I noticed you don't have slots in the holes of the front pivot like the stock axles, how do you plan to deal with fitment issues?

 

[Zishan]

Thom,

This is truly exciting news! I can taste the longer lasting tires already! How are we to proceed?

Do we send you funds now to hold a set for us?

Installation, for those of us that can not have down time, can I visit you on an agreed weekend to have product installed?

Please advise. And thank you again on behalf of all the tires I have had that looked brand new, but were completely worn on the inner edges! :tongue:

Regards,
- Zishan



Btw, I think my avatar shows my significant camber.... yikes

 

[Thom]

Will these work with air suspension too? If so , put me on the list. thks Brent:biggrin:

Texas91Brent
I'm not sure how your settup works, so it would be difficult for me to assess. All in all, if the clearances are the same, then YES. I'd would like to see it.

 

[BenDF]

That looks great. Looks like a solid design.

 

[Thom]

Nice and simple idea, screaming good deal at $450 for all 4 parts installed!

What finish are you using on the 6061 to deal with abrasion? I have found polymers are much tougher than un-coated aluminum. I have had limited success with hard coat anodizing, but it always wears off with time. I have gone to electro-less nickle on my bearing parts, it looks promising!

Will you be offering non-offset parts for guys who just want better handling and are OK with the camber they have? That seems like good price point up-grade if they will hold up to track use. Have you loaded them with R- compounds and race alignment yet?

I noticed you don't have slots in the holes of the front pivot like the stock axles, how do you plan to deal with fitment issues?

titaniumdave,

A natural machined aluminum finish is being used. Testing has shown zero measurable wear with use of the current polymer bearing. In testing after the first year there is no measurable reduction in the aluminum bearing material; measurement was made with electronic digital calipers to within 0.5 thousands of an inch.

The reciprocating loads calculated on this arm are very low and the particular polymer bearing used has heat released lubricants distributed within the material that greatly reduce wearing. Electro-less nickel would be a good next step, or even chromed. Validation will constantly continue on tested parts. If the need arises for some type of hard-coating it will be added.

In addition to the natural lubrication in the polymer bearing, Urea grease is applied on the hardware to initialize the bearing. Remanence of the Urea grease stays trapped in the bearing joint just like that applied on a clutch installation; note, these parts can be easily removed from the upper-control-arm and regreased periodically, as desired.

Race compounds… and non-offset…
This can certainly be done. The offset parts had to be made to account for the different surfaces the upper-control-arm faces when in contact with the chassis. OEM style non-compliant fitment would change the current design, the manufacturer would charge some change of program. I would need to have a set number of NSXers for the need to assess the production quantities.

Slots: The mounting holes have been slightly increased in size to account for fitment.

Hope that answers all questions

Thom

 

[KooLaid]

Congratulations one getting this kit as far as you have. Now the nay sayers can shut it, and you've put them in their place. I wish you the best of luck. It looks like a simple but VERY solid product. If in the future I need it, I'll know where to come, even at a "non-introductory" price. So you better be around then!

 

[Thom]

Congratulations ... nay sayers can shut it...you put them in their place...VERY solid product...If ... I need it ... you better be around then!

This has been one of my dream cars since it arrived on the market; unless I die "I'll be here."

 

[Esprit1]

Hi Thom,

I applaud your effort and dedication to bring such a needed product to the NSX community. Now it is time to put money where my mouth was. I will take a set with new ball joints.

You have PM.

Thanks Regard
Paul

 

[titaniumdave]

Hi Thom,

I will take a set with new ball joints.

Can you do this?!?!?!?!