Clutch spring / input shaft seal / time to replace clutch i suppose!

[xxxdominion]

So I was driving back to work form lunch the other day and noticed a faint but distinct smell of gear oil emanating from the X. I made it to work took a peek under the car and sure enough, a pretty substantial amount of gear oil was leaking from directly under the clutch or clutch area. I figured I could make it the 11 miles home with out much of a fuss but I only made it 4 miles before shifting became impossible and the clutch began to grab at the slightest movement from a depressed pedal position. I limped the car in 4th through parking lot and into an advanced auto parts lot where I called a tow truck and had it towed to bay county Honda.

that was yesterday.

Today I get a call saying the clutch replacement will be 3500 including tax and labor if that's all they need to do. I don't think there is any transmission damage due to a loss of fluid because it shifts perfectly when the car is off and no rotation is present, no hang ups or hiccups rowing through the gears.

I refuse to pay "Genuine Acura" prices which equates to 2200 just for the OEM clutch and 1k in labor when I can do all of this myself. Any recommendations on clutches? any primers ever use SPEC clutches or EXEDY? If I'm going to do the clutch id rather go with aftermarket + lightweight flywheel for cheaper than what the price hiked stock clutch will go for. The sucky thing is, just a week ago I successfully completed the 90k service. and it was running completely fine for about 300 miles ( took a little road trip weekend).

 

[Sulley]

Sounds more like the slave cylinder.

 

[xxxdominion]

Slave / master cylinder replaced 2 months ago. Tech at Honda confirmed clutch is kaput.

 

[scammy]

I just installed the SOS 350 and it is light at the pedal and handles everything i throw at it

 

[xxxdominion]

I just installed the SOS 350 and it is light at the pedal and handles everything i throw at it

Awesome! just ordered the exede hyper single disc 375 ft lb rated clutch. Ive heard good things. its lighter than OEM and less complicated.

DOes anyone have any advice on the amount of transmission seals i should purchase? I want to do the input / output shaft seals / tansaxle seals while the tranny is out.

 

[nsxnut]

You have an early car if the snap ring fix hasn't been done now would be the time.

It is about a 1000 in labor to take the trani out. It is already out doing the clutch.
I would have it looked at. The syncros do ware out. Now would be the time to address.

 

[xxxdominion]

You have an early car if the snap ring fix hasn't been done now would be the time.

It is about a 1000 in labor to take the trani out. It is already out doing the clutch.
I would have it looked at. The syncros do ware out. Now would be the time to address.

That's some good advice. Where would I buy replacement sycros? I'll be doing the clutch install and seals myself. Its not overly complicated, less complicated then a 90k service which I did as well. Slave and master are already new. Ordered both bearings / input outpous shaft seals/ shaft repair sleeves. No idea where to order sycros. Or I might take it to a transmission guy i know who has worked on them before. I coudn't swallow the 4k+ clutch install at the dealer when the clutch and labor wouldn't be warrantied. If they messed something up I'd be out of pocket 4k, if I mess something up I'll be out of pocket 1200.

A lot of people tell me to take it to a dealer or shop but its not a complicated car to work on, the tech is fairly old. The fear factor is the mid engined design i suppose. Id rather learn on my own and if i make a mistake, I can fix it and learn the ins and outs at the same time.

 

[nsxnut]

Dealer. I order parts from Acura of Reno.


I would look into the snap ring issue. If your car is within range or has been fixed.
When it goes it can destroy the case. It was only an issue on early cars.

 

[xxxdominion]

Clutch has arrived. everything is in order. the bearings and seals should be here tomorrow. Have an appointment with my mechanic to have the transmission syncros checked / replaced and ahve the tranny given a once over for good measure / check snap ring. I'll let you guys know how the exedy stage 3 performs.

Its a 35% weight reduction over the stock twin disc and will hold 450 ft lbs of torque for future power upgrades. The flywheel is forged one piece chromoly and the housing is one piece forged aluminum. total cost of the clutch was 1145 for those wondering. Came with an alignment tool as well. =D hopefully i'll have her back on the road before next weekend to start the 500 mile break in period.

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[JD Cross]

Did you find out where the fluid was coming from?
Was it clutch fluid or transmission oil?

 

[xxxdominion]

Did you find out where the fluid was coming from?
Was it clutch fluid or transmission oil?

Not yet. I've been refraining from working on the car due to the heat and humidity. No fans or ac in my garage and its pushing around 95+ with 100% humidity. The tech at Honda suspects its the input shaft seal, I cant find records of the seals being replaced. We will see though. I'll post some pics of the seals and source of leakage when the trans comes out. I'll probably take the time to clean the exhaust and replace the gaskets for those as well.

 

[davidf]

Since the tranny is out, it's now a good time to replace the slave and hose as well. Especially if that is a stiffer engaging clutch.

 

[xxxdominion]

Since the tranny is out, it's now a good time to replace the slave and hose as well. Especially if that is a stiffer engaging clutch.

Slave and master were done about 2 months ago when the slave suddenly gave out on a group cruise. Thank you for the input though! I'll try and work on the car and update this thread more this weekend. I have a lot to do so hopefully I can make some time to crawl back under the car. right now the trans is ready to come out, just need to remove the mount bolts / housing bolts and set it on the ground. to survey the damage. Removing the starter indicated some pretty catastrophic failure. the teeth on the starter have some damage as well as the aluminum housing near the starter. After popping off the clutch cover I could see pieces of clutch.

I'm hoping no severe damage was done to the housing or input shaft / seal area. we will see soon enough =)

 

[xxxdominion]

so here is this no name brand clutch installed. One of the retaining springs failed / sheared as seen in the later photos.
some substantial damage to the bell housing but nothing major, just some battle scars.
picture of the spring that broke
too bad, since the friction surfaces or "pucks" had a good 65% life left in them, we noted the clutch failure to simple mechanical failure of a spring housing retainer.
old clutch next to the EXEDY stage 3.
EXEDY installed with no hiccups what so ever. The real interesting part was getting the new thrust bearing installed. took some ingenuity and a trip to Home Depot to get some double length screws. The manual said just insert the bearing and tighten the housing bolts down until the forks crest the bearing wall and pop into place. you need at least 1-1/2 " of space to tighten the housing down over the bearing on the flywheel. so we got some 3 1/2" bolts form Home Depot, and used the magnesium face off a Mag Lite to set underneath the bearing while we tightened the bolts in a star formation around the housing on top of the flywheel. worked like a charm.

The leak we think came form the input shaft seal when the clutch became unstable, causing the input shaft to vibrate up, down, left, and right causing a gap to form between the seal and the main shaft allowing transmission fluid to sneak through. Its the only logical explanation as there were no cracks apparent in the case after a good cleaning with some brake clean.

Monday I'll give acura a call and take the transmission to them to have all the seals re-done and sycros replaced. SO far so good.

Doing this on the garage floor is no fun, someone want to gift me a lift? =D

 

[shawn110975]

I have been doing it without a lift in my shop for some time now it gets easier everytime but I wish I had a lift myself would make things easy def.

good job doing it your self saved a ton a cash. F the dealerships LOL

 

[Larry Bastanza]

That is a Centerforce rebuilt clutch. How many miles are on it? I installed many of those when Centerforce was doing them, long ago. They were always pretty reliable.

Regards,
LarryB

 

[xxxdominion]

That is a Centerforce rebuilt clutch. How many miles are on it? I installed many of those when Centerforce was doing them, long ago. They were always pretty reliable.

Regards,
LarryB

Id have to dig through the service records. but I believe the clutch was done around.. 05 ish? so maybe 35k miles ago. Both friction surfaces still had a lot of meat on them.. I mean a LOT. I'm going to see if I can have the clutch rebuilt for a spare or for sale. There is no damage to anything. Just the springs damaged the transmission clutch housing (scuffed it up a bit). Thank you for the info though.

Kind of threw me off because when I first bought the car it seemed like the clutch was slipping slightly, but it went away over time as if it hadn't actually been broken in much or driven very hard.

 

[RYU]

The part about the trip to HD didn't sound fun I hate those moments.

Did you evenly torque down the pressure plate? Its quite important to do so whereby the clutch disc is clamped down evenly.

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It took me 30+mins to bold down my OS Giken clutch with 18 or so bolts LOL... sigh...

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Most of those parts do seem to be available:

http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org...omp=List All&vinnoT=&trim=&trans=&view=normal

HTH,
LarryB

 

[xxxdominion]

The part about the trip to HD didn't sound fun I hate those moments.

Did you evenly torque down the pressure plate? Its quite important to do so whereby the clutch disc is clamped down evenly.




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It took me 30+mins to bold down my OS Giken clutch with 18 or so bolts LOL... sigh...

Holy stage 15 clutch batman! yes I torqued the case bolts to recommended specs in the star formation with the alignment tool installed. Centered quite nicely.

So you must be making at least 600+ hp for that clutch haha! The pucks on the EXEDY look similar to your twin disk except its a 6 puck with a wider surface. Looks like I could trade your clutch for a running Honda civic hehe!...

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Most of those parts do seem to be available:

http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org...omp=List All&vinnoT=&trim=&trans=&view=normal

HTH,
LarryB

very cool and thank you for that link. The only question is, where the guide spring set goes in to the center pressure plate. there are.. (strap springs?) that go from the housing to the center pressure plate. they aren't listed. If you look in the 2nd to last photo I posted of the old clutch, there are the little metal fingers sticking down. Those also failed when the guide spring housing failed. those are what swung out and scarred the clutch housing and threw the clutch off balance.

Would those come with a new center pressure plate or are they bought separately? they are basically riveted on to the center pressure plate.

 

[xxxdominion]

Alright need a little help here. Got the trans back in last night and got all of the other suspension components and little bits put back on. Attached everything according to the manual electronics wise, double checked all connections and bolts.

Filled the trans back up with fluid, reconnected the starter / transmission ground cable, then re attached the battery. The transmission will not go in to reverse but it will shift through 1-5 no problem. kind of thinking i may have accidentally rotated the reverse syncro when reconnecting the shift fork for the reverse gear set. but nevermind. If i have to pull the trans back out.. so be it.

When i tried to start the car the only light that came on the dash was the little battery light in the far top left of the gauge cluster. Set the battery on a charger for 2 hours hoping it was just dead from sitting for a few months in its cradle. Tried again and no lights on dash, no click from the starter. Could this be something with the factory alarm system? i have no idea.

Edit. Headlights / tail lights will turn on. No dash lights, windows have no power.

 

[ftuhy]

Main relay? Ignition switch contacts failed or dirty? (There are numerous threads on those little nasty gremlins)

 

[xxxdominion]

Main relay? Ignition switch contacts failed or dirty? (There are numerous threads on those little nasty gremlins)

If the main relay goes out, wont the engine still crank but not fire?

if there are no cluster lights when the key is turned to the no2 position and there is no power to the windows. but headlights, door locks, seats, fuel pump, all have power? just seems odd. All I did was unplug the connections that go to the transmission for removal / installation.

Edit. checking the ignition now.

 

[RYU]

Did you short out the starter wire during install? Maybe you just arc'd it. Sometimes that's enough to cause electrical problems. If you unplugged the battery prior to trans removal then you won't have this issue.

 

[xxxdominion]

Did you short out the starter wire during install? Maybe you just arc'd it. Sometimes that's enough to cause electrical problems. If you unplugged the battery prior to trans removal then you won't have this issue.

Just did the ignition switch cleaning with electrical grease. No change in symptoms.

Battery was unplugged during removal of all electrical components. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

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