Considering Gruppe M

[slashmatt]

My mechanic has recommended the Gruppe M supercharger for my NSX ('95 NSX-T). He's installed plenty of Comptechs and two Gruppe M's. He really thinks that the torque of the GM is superior to the CT. He actually gave a reasonable explaination too. The CT shortens the intake runners significantly, and the GM does not. Anyway, he thinks I'll be happier with the torque curve on the GM.

I know that not *too* many people have experience with the GM S/C, but if anyone has heard of reliability/warranty issues (not warranty of the car but warranty of the S/C parts), I'd like to hear about it.

I know that CT stands behind their product, but if GM can stand behind theirs, and it's a reliable piece of equipment, I'd really like to try it out. If nothing else, at least it would make my car unique.

edit: I know that I lose my strut brace w/ the GM, but I'll use a normal straight bar strut brace for a while. As the car will eventually be a track car, the cage I'll install later will take up the slack (pun intended).

 

[na14yu]

There's a couple of good threads on the GMSC if you do a search for them. Here are two to search results to get you started!

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43197

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21805

 

[slashmatt]

Something tells me I'm going to end up with the CTSC. I'm a little afraid that if something goes wrong with the Gruppe M, I'll have too hard of a time trying to get the problem resolved.

Another question. What would be more effective, building up/sleeving my 3.0 or just buying a second hand 3.2 and doing the same thing? I hear that the heads on the 3.2 better, and second hand heads are a little tough to come by.

 

[01blacks4]

BBSC is the way to go in my opinon, which i am sure is different from many others

 

[Surff78]

FX is the way to GOOO!
hands down the best out there!

 

[01blacks4]

he is talking SC no turbo....

 

[The Kid]

I like the basch boost as well. Properly tuned via (AEM, etc.) it can be very inexpensive and scary fast.

 

[slashmatt]

I like the basch boost as well. Properly tuned via (AEM, etc.) it can be very inexpensive and scary fast.

AEM in a 95 requires an OBDI conversion. A little pricey.

 

[peiserg]

I like the basch boost as well. Properly tuned via (AEM, etc.) it can be very inexpensive and scary fast.

how come you're trying to source a used ctsc then? It seems like there are more often bbsc's on the used market than ctsc's..FX might have one or two laying around from conversions to FX X00's turbo systems..

 

[KGP]

.FX might have one or two laying around from conversions to FX X00's turbo systems..

They might, but that doesn't mean they are theirs to sell.

 

[Veleno]

I would think the best guy to answer your questions about the GMSC would be Alex V. He's had the supercharger for a while now and seems to be very fast on and off the track! Not to mention he's the authorized U.S. dealer for GM.

 

[slashmatt]

FX is the way to GOOO!
hands down the best out there!

Not for a 95

FX500 = '91-'94

FX400 = '91-'94 & '97+

 

[len3.8]

FX is the way to GOOO!
hands down the best out there!

Which ones have you had on your car?
Just wondering how you came up with your Summation for FI that are available.
:smile:

 

[ak]

Who still sells GruppeM SC in US? Last time I checked, GMSC is going for 1,500,000 yen in japan.

 

[NetViper]

Not for a 95

FX500 = '91-'94

FX400 = '91-'94 & '97+

That is not correct,

FX500 = any car

FX400 = 97+ only.

 

[ibDursty]

That is not correct,

FX500 = any car

FX400 = 97+ only.

Yeah, that's what I thought. I'll probably go CTSC as mine's a 95 T and I have to have somewhere to stow the top. Maybe I'll go with Marks hatch conversion so you can use the same engine cover with the CTSC. Gruppe takes up a lot of the space under the glass.

 

[slashmatt]

That is not correct,

FX500 = any car

FX400 = 97+ only.

Okay. Is this because the cylinder wall liners on the 3.2 can handle boost, because it probably isn't due to engine management since both can use computers (HKS V-Con '97+, AEM 91-94).

Anyway, yes, I found out about the price(ouch!), I've e-mailed Alex V., talked to several people, and I just feel more comfortable with the CTSC.

 

[AU_NSX]

Okay. Is this because the cylinder wall liners on the 3.2 can handle boost,

No, as Factor X have said... it is because 400hp can be achieved easier and cheaper with the addition of the CTSC. They do not wish to compete in this sector. However supercharging the OBDII is a problem and that is why Factor X offer the FX400 for OBDII cars.

500hp OTOH needs turbocharging and engine modifications...

 

[AU_NSX]

My mechanic has recommended the Gruppe M supercharger for my NSX ('95 NSX-T). He's installed plenty of Comptechs and two Gruppe M's. He really thinks that the torque of the GM is superior to the CT. He actually gave a reasonable explaination too. The CT shortens the intake runners significantly, and the GM does not. Anyway, he thinks I'll be happier with the torque curve on the GM.

I know that not *too* many people have experience with the GM S/C, but if anyone has heard of reliability/warranty issues (not warranty of the car but warranty of the S/C parts), I'd like to hear about it.

I know that CT stands behind their product, but if GM can stand behind theirs, and it's a reliable piece of equipment, I'd really like to try it out.

Look the Gruppe M is a top quality product and I know you won't have any reliability/warranty issues with it!

It is made in Japan like the NSX and is the most popular method of FI in Japan, and in some ways is superior to the Comptech product as it has an intercooler option as well.

However, you are in the States and in the US the CTSC is by far the most popularmethod of FI. There are more technicians experienced in installing, maintaining, tuning etc in the US as well that is where Comptech is based and where all the spares can be sourced.

I think both products are reliable, both offer 6 and 9psi versions and both companies stand behing their product... In Japan I would go with the Gruppe M. In America, I would go with Comptech!

 

[slashmatt]

I just heard from Alex Vizcarra, the Gruppe M importer. He sent me a nice letter and explained everything very well. There is a current issue with the availability of the Eaton supercharger though, and it is unclear whether they have stopped or just delayed the production of the unit used in Gruppe M's kit or whether Gruppe M will redesign their kit to use one of the currently available Eaton superchargers. It's unfortunate, because after I read Alex V.'s response, I felt very comfortable purchasing one of the kits, but the last one was sold 2 months ago.

There is no issue with the price. For OBD1 NA1, $8500, for OBDII drive by wire NA1 (maybe 2 as well, i didn't check) it's $9500. Yes, Gruppe M knows how to reprogram OBDII. Why don't more of us know this fact?

 

[nsxhk]

I'm actually very interested in reading what Alex V's has to say about the GMSC

Henry.

 

[slashmatt]

Mr. Vizcarra,



I found your e-mail address on nsxprime. My mechanic has recommended the Gruppe M supercharger for it’s superior torque characteristics.



I’ve got three concerns:



1.The only prices I’ve seen on the supercharger aren’t “real” prices. (i.e. they are “subject” to change) As the US dollar is low compared to the Japanese yen, what would I actually pay for the kit?

2.The Japanese website shows three different NA1 NSX applications. I have a 1995 NSX. Is that NA1-100, NA1-110, or NA1-120? I know that NA2’s are the later model NSX’s.

3.If there was a problem with the supercharger, what kind of warranty (on the SC not the car) would I have access to? Who is in charge of that process? And, due to the rarity of the kit in the US, what is the normal response time for solving such issues?

--------------------------------

Hi Mr. [deleted],

Thanks for your interest in the Gruppe M SC kit for the NSX. I am and have been for the past 6 years, the exclusive importer of Gruppe M NSX performance parts in the US. I have been supplying the various NSX vendors such as Dali Racing and SOS.

Your mechanic is right about the superior torque characteristics of the kit. It has by far produced the most peak torque, with the flattest curve and earliest usable levels as compared to other forced induction solutions. It truly addresses the inherent deficiencies of the NSX engine, that is the lack of low to mid-range torque. Here are my responses to your questions:

1. Retail pricing for the kit has always been the same as it was introduced in the US back in 1999. That is $8500 for 91 to 94 NSX (OBD 1) , and $9500 for '95 and up (OBD 2, fly by wire throttle, NSX-T's included).

2. The kit does not really go by that distinction. The differences lie whether or not your car has the fly-by-wire throttle system. Your car has the fly-by-wire; the additional costs is mainly due to the increased complexity of the computer system in the later model cars.

3. Thus far we have had not one issue or problem with any of the kits sold in the US. As long as it has been installed properly, it works right out of the box. But in the event of a problem, I am the person to contact with regards to technical support or questions regarding the kit. If a defective part is the problem, I ship out a replacement ASAP if I have it in stock, or there is usually a 2-3 week delay if I don't and will have to come from Japan. I can usually respond to any questions within 24 hours, if not immediately.

The unfortunate news is that there is no kit available for sale at the moment. The last kit was sold 2 months ago, and EATON, the blower manufacturer, has delayed production of the blower unit used in the kit. As far as I know, there is still no word as to when EATON will resume production, or if Gruppe M will decide to redesign the kit around the current models available.

Please let me know if you have any more questions.

Best regards,

Alex
AV Motorsport
Gruppe M NSX Performance

 

[NetViper]

I have always wanted to drive a GruppeM, but never got the chance. I was hoping to drive Brents at NSXPO 2002, but never got the chance. From what I have heard, those that have them, love them. Brents old car was actually for sale in Macon (2 hours from me), but again never drove it. He did sell the SC to someone on prime, but I don't know who. The kit does make the most TQ out of any SC, but it also makes the lowest HP. However, for daily driving, it would probably be the most fun. The biggest downside to me is it is HUGE and Ugly.

 

[slashmatt]

This "Huge and Ugly" thing just makes me laugh.

It's only "ugly" because that's not what you are used to seeing.

The "huge" part allows it to use the stock manifold, which in turn allows you to have the full length intake runners, and that is what provides better torque.

To me, it's sexy.