Door speaker question

[TURBO2GO]

Im going to replace the blows speakers soon, and am wondering, is there a harness I can use and not cut the factory wires for the door speakers? Do they fit into the Blows housings with a real connector?

Also, how hard is it to run new wire in case I want to bi-amp?

 

[bngl3rt]

Also, how hard is it to run new wire in case I want to bi-amp?

Lol... audiophile.... :wink:

 

[Stephen@NCAutoUSA]

Im going to replace the blows speakers soon, and am wondering, is there a harness I can use and not cut the factory wires for the door speakers? Do they fit into the Blows housings with a real connector?

Also, how hard is it to run new wire in case I want to bi-amp?

If you don't want to cut your factory wires then you'll need to fish wires. I've never tried nor have I even looked to see if it's easy but I heard it's annoying. However it can be done. Get the electric lube out buddy.

 

[NSX2398]

Im going to replace the blows speakers soon, and am wondering, is there a harness I can use and not cut the factory wires for the door speakers? Do they fit into the Blows housings with a real connector?

Also, how hard is it to run new wire in case I want to bi-amp?

SOS sells a connector harness that fits between the factory wiring harness and the OEM head unit. This allows you to make your own wiring mods on the SOS harness piece and not touch the factory wiring.

The 'blows' speakers (as you say) are small and it's unlikely that any new ones could be retrofit into the OEM enclosures. However, SOS also sells door speaker enclosures .. you'll have to check if you can fit your new speakers into them.

With regard to the wiring, the existing wiring is fine for most reasonable power applications. There are actually 4 factory wires going to each door .. 2 wires (+ and Gnd) to power the 'blows' amp and 2 for the audio. For your new application, you'll have to splice into the two audio wires because I know of no adapter that would plug into the connector. It you decide to bi-amp, you might be able to additionally use the 2 power wires if those wires come from the head unit (I can't remember and would have to check the wiring diagram).

 

[TURBO2GO]

I wasn't suggesting I wanted to use the factory enclosures. I already have the SOS door plates. I wanted to bi-amp for alignment reasons, not to be an audiophile. So the question is, can I use all 4 wires... If I can, that's huge. I also already have the SOS wire harness, aftermarket radio/aftermarket head unit.

 

[Briank]

I would just fix the stock speaker amps, lots cheaper and way less hassle. But I am biased. :wink:

 

[NSX2398]

Bad news ...I checked the wiring diagram in my '91 shop manual and only the audio wires come from the amp. Both the power and Gnd wires are part of the same wiring harness as the audio wires that goes to the door but the Gnd wires terminate at Gnd points behind the left and right kick panels and not sure where the power comes from but it might be the kick panels as well. However, the power wire might come off the same harness wire as a number of other power devices such as door locks and mirrors so who knows if you could separate it out for use with the speakers.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Ian thanks much for the info, that's what I needed to know. So the choices are either use the crossover and forget bi-amping, run new wire, or install the tweeters in the dash.

 

[sylcurt]

Hi Turbo...

for what its worth, I really gave it a good look for running new wire and fishing it through the factory boot near the hinges...I've done this before on my other cars , but this one was just going to get way to difficult and without good access to the inside of door in that area, and kick panel area where they come in, I finally gave up. I know what you are saying regarding bi-amp wiring , but running the wire through is a real bugger

I would use crossover and keep tweeter in door rather than cutting dash, but thats just my opinion.

 

[RYU]

Turbo - this is something I was looking into. Might not get to it until next year (too many NSX projects!) but might as well discuss it..

I'm assuming the door amps have 3 or 4 wires feeding it. 3 if it's sharing a common ground and 4 if not.

There's likely a low volt, small gauge signal wire pair coming from the head unit thru the boot into the door amp. This will be a + and - signal wire. My question is... how thick are these wires? Are these 18g, 16g?

If they're decently thick you can use these as the main speakers wires from the amp in the cab somewhere to the door speakers. You won't need to rewire in this scenario but you're limited to maybe 40-50watts RMS to the door speakers.

You probably know this but most aftermarket speakers are designed for an infinite baffle setup in the doors. I'm not sure how they will perform in the bose enclosure but my guess is it's probably favorable. How big are those factory speakers anyway? Aren't they only 4"? I don't know of any midbass woofers that are that small.

What micro amp are you using again?

Due to all the complexity and due to the fact that the OEM doesn't sound that bad.. i'm still using my factory setup but bypassed the head unit and have it wired directly to my Android phone.

 

[grybrd]

I would just fix the stock speaker amps, lots cheaper and way less hassle. But I am biased. :wink:

...and darned good at what you do to repair the Bose system, says someone who is most impressed with the stock sound system now that the sub-woofer amp is repaired (and an iPod adapter was added in lieu of the CD player.) It's awesome!

 

[NSX2398]

I'm assuming the door amps have 3 or 4 wires feeding it. 3 if it's sharing a common ground and 4 if not.

There's likely a low volt, small gauge signal wire pair coming from the head unit thru the boot into the door amp. This will be a + and - signal wire. My question is... how thick are these wires? Are these 18g, 16g?

In my post#4 above, I confirmed that there are 4 wires .. 2 audio (+ and -) as well as a Gnd and +12V. Don't recall what gauge they were but they're not large .. I'm guessing 18g max.

If they're decently thick you can use these as the main speakers wires from the amp in the cab somewhere to the door speakers. You won't need to rewire in this scenario but you're limited to maybe 40-50watts RMS to the door speakers.

I installed an aftermarket amp but kept the OEM speakers and wiring for now although I had to bypass the amps in the doors in order to do that. Worked fine.

 

[TURBO2GO]

In my post#4 above, I confirmed that there are 4 wires .. 2 audio (+ and -) as well as a Gnd and +12V. Don't recall what gauge they were but they're not large .. I'm guessing 18g max.

I installed an aftermarket amp but kept the OEM speakers and wiring for now although I had to bypass the amps in the doors in order to do that. Worked fine.

Have you verified all these are in the door? All 4? 18 gauge is fine for the tweeters. Are they all in the same haress?

 

[RYU]

In my post#4 above, I confirmed that there are 4 wires .. 2 audio (+ and -) as well as a Gnd and +12V. Don't recall what gauge they were but they're not large .. I'm guessing 18g max.

I installed an aftermarket amp but kept the OEM speakers and wiring for now although I had to bypass the amps in the doors in order to do that. Worked fine.

Thanks Ian. I had missed that sorry. 18g might still be ok for 30watts RMS. I prefer to run a min of 16g but i'm also considering powering the door speakers off the head unit (saves weight too) or a small amp with line level signal from my Android device or tablet. I did that in my S2000 and with an efficient 6.5" separates it sounded fantastic. I don't listen to loud music so perhaps 18g may be fine.

Appreciate the confirmation!

Now the question is... to use the factory enclosures or not...

 

[TURBO2GO]

Bad news ...I checked the wiring diagram in my '91 shop manual and only the audio wires come from the amp. Both the power and Gnd wires are part of the same wiring harness as the audio wires that goes to the door but the Gnd wires terminate at Gnd points behind the left and right kick panels and not sure where the power comes from but it might be the kick panels as well. However, the power wire might come off the same harness wire as a number of other power devices such as door locks and mirrors so who knows if you could separate it out for use with the speakers.

The bold part is what confused me. Post #4 says the are 4 wires, then this post says two never make it to the door?

 

[TURBO2GO]

Ryu, 18 gauge is Plenty for the tweeters. This is a short run! Don't forget wire is heavy too, the less you use the better.

 

[RYU]

Ryu, 18 gauge is Plenty for the tweeters. This is a short run! Don't forget wire is heavy too, the less you use the better.

But I plan to run the crossovers (if any) in the door. The 18g wire will be the main line for the midbass driver and the tweeters. In which case it's probably just "enough" for 30watts RMS. I've been out of the scene for a while but i'd like to think speakers have gotten more efficient over the years.

 

[TURBO2GO]

But I plan to run the crossovers (if any) in the door. The 18g wire will be the main line for the midbass driver and the tweeters. In which case it's probably just "enough" for 30watts RMS. I've been out of the scene for a while but i'd like to think speakers have gotten more efficient over the years.

Speaker sensitivity has nothing to do with it, with an 18 gauge wire I can drive almost any speaker behind its intended design. I don't know where you are getting this 30 watt RMS figure from either, it is rather arbitrary and doesn't really mean anything. The concern is the overall resistance the wire itself presents to the amp, and length has A LOT to do with that as does the wire material, number of strands, the purity of the metal, etc. We are talking about 5 feet. It is negligible. if you look inside giant speakers, the woofers often have 18 gauge going from the crossover to the driver. It's a short run.

I don't think the door which Is somewhat exposed to the elements is a great location for xovers either. But... There isn't a whole lot of space in this car. I was trying to get 4 conductors buys I may not even mount the tweets in the doors. I'll see.

 

[RYU]

Speaker sensitivity has nothing to do with it, with an 18 gauge wire I can drive almost any speaker behind its intended design. I don't know where you are getting this 30 watt RMS figure from either, it is rather arbitrary and doesn't really mean anything. The concern is the overall resistance the wire itself presents to the amp, and length has A LOT to do with that as does the wire material, number of strands, the purity of the metal, etc. We are talking about 5 feet. It is negligible. if you look inside giant speakers, the woofers often have 18 gauge going from the crossover to the driver. It's a short run.

I don't think the door which Is somewhat exposed to the elements is a great location for xovers either. But... There isn't a whole lot of space in this car. I was trying to get 4 conductors buys I may not even mount the tweets in the doors. I'll see.

30watts RMS is just a rough baseline. It's my own personal benchmark.

Yes, I agree distance is a big contributing factor to resistance but i'd like to think the bose signal wires are decent enough wires that when i'm comparing 18g OEM Honda wire vs. 18g (insert aftermarket company here) they are relatively apples to apples. No need to complicate the matter. My brain is too small as it is.

I don't drive the NSX enough to worry about the elements affecting the x-overs. I wish I did! :frown:

 

[NSX3tek]

Turbo-
Here's a good write up that also shows the speaker wires.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129860

On the left with the brown harness:

*The top 2 (orange, white) are speaker wires coming from the dash. If you follow those wires, you can see he's feeding that into the crossover.

*The lower 2 (red/yellow, forgot the other one) are power wires (+-) for the door amp.

 

[TURBO2GO]

So where is the other end of the power wires? At the radio harness or elsewhere? Thanks for the pic and info!

 

[comtec]

Hey Dave,
Haven't read the entire thread so i don't know if this has been answered.

There are 4 wires that terminate to plug C656 on the passenger door speaker and C609 on the drivers door speaker.

pin 1- Yellow/red stripe (+12v) Fuse 51 hood relay box fed through power amp relay
pin 2- White (signal +) To head unit
pin 3- Black (12v GRD) To G401/G402 left/right kick panel
pin 5- Orange (signal -) To head unit

The colors change inside the speaker.


Mike

 

[NSX2398]

The bold part is what confused me. Post #4 says the are 4 wires, then this post says two never make it to the door?

My comment about the 4 wires was from the point of view of the 4 pin connector that plugs into the door speaker enclosure. My other comment was from the perspective of where the wires come from or go to. All of the four wires come through the existing wire harness that goes to the door, but in the case of the +12v, I believe that it might just be one of many that come off a common +12v wire in the harness, as opposed to it being a separate wire in the harness. In comtec's last post, he is confirming each of the 4 pins in the connector and also (as I had said) that the ground wires actually terminate in ground points in the kick panels .. and, although I'm not sure it is conclusive, his comment about the +12v coming through a relay suggests that it might be part of a common +12v feed for a lot of other power components in the door. The picture in the shop manual of the door harness certainly suggests that as well.

 

[chrisfrom619]

Hey Dave,
Haven't read the entire thread so i don't know if this has been answered.

There are 4 wires that terminate to plug C656 on the passenger door speaker and C609 on the drivers door speaker.

pin 1- Yellow/red stripe (+12v) Fuse 51 hood relay box fed through power amp relay
pin 2- White (signal +) To head unit
pin 3- Black (12v GRD) To G401/G402 left/right kick panel
pin 5- Orange (signal -) To head unit

The colors change inside the speaker.


Mike

Is this mean I can trace no.2 and 5 pin from the door all the way to the head unit harness? If yes I can run my wires from external amp back to the head unit.

Thanks
Chris

 

[EuroBoutique]

We are working on a few NSX projects but you do NOT need to cut the wiring. Just solder a tap to the existing harness, you can remove it later and the wire stays intact.