Edmunds 98 ITR vs. New SI

[SOURCE 1]

I have a 2005 RSX but I swapped the engine for the 2007 TSX K24A2 with a Jackson Racing supercharger and she is such a fun car. I think if the RSX came with a double wish bone suspension like the DC2 instead of the lame McPhearson (sp) setup the DC5 would have lived on to the DC2 name. The K series engine is absolutely amazing and much greater than the B series.

What you need to do is buy a DC2R chasis and slap in a K20A ITR engine in it and you have modern day engine power with old school Honda soul and chassis work.

Agree, The car " could have" been amazing. But like with everything Honda is producing it just wasn't enough. I think after the 2000 SI Honda went south with the little sports car market... The early 2000's hatch SI was a joke in my opinion. They did nothing for me. I liked the RSX as a daily. But To put a ton of money in and mod it just wasn't for me.

 

[OneRedNSX]

I have a 2005 RSX but I swapped the engine for the 2007 TSX K24A2 with a Jackson Racing supercharger and she is such a fun car. I think if the RSX came with a double wish bone suspension like the DC2 instead of the lame McPhearson (sp) setup the DC5 would have lived on to the DC2 name. The K series engine is absolutely amazing and much greater than the B series.

What you need to do is buy a DC2R chasis and slap in a K20A ITR engine in it and you have modern day engine power with old school Honda soul and chassis work.

I bought mine new in 04 before the tsx swap was even being steadily done. The point was that I already spent $24k... I shouldn't have to spend another $8-$10k on mods to make it fun. (I had a greddy turbo kit too).

The rsx is just a shadow of it's former self... Just like the rx8 / rx7... It seems like Mazda said "let's make a rx7 but more liveable so they numbed the suspension, neutered the engine and threw a back seat in it. Then change the number from 7 to 8 so we can add more suck to it"... That's what the dc5 is to the dc2. We don't want marshmallows Honda, we want fun cars!

 

[nsxtasy]

ehhh.....not bad but soooo little power down low.

Apparently you don't understand the difference between horsepower and torque, and the effect of gearing on acceleration. What Hondas give up in torque (at the low end of the revband) they gain back (and more!) in the ability to maintain that torque at the upper end of the revband, and to extend that revband to very high levels, thereby taking advantage of shorter gearing. You can gain a better understanding of how this works and why it is important by reading this article by Bruce Augenstein.

 

[jonas1jp]

I had a 99 Civic Si, then an NSX, then an S2000. I loved the way all of them handled, but the Si is what started it all for me. Very similar to the ITR, with a little less horsies, and a little lower redline. I ordered a new Si a few years back when they were first re-released; white with black interior. It came in, I drove it, and told them to keep it. The connection to the car is gone in my opinion. The throttle is crap, followed very closely by the steering. After a bit of soul searching, I decided it was time to start my collection. It was going to start with the right car; a white 98 ITR. I found a perfect example in Houston in August 2010 with 23,000 miles; a one-owner unmolested car. Unfortunately, at the same time we discovered we were victims of real estate fraud. It could only happen to me. Crap.

 

[nsxn8]

Thanks for all the RSX input. Guess I'll have to pass on that one. My dream daily driver... a rwd Integra with a 9k redline 2.4L!!! Please Honda?! Make this, and I'll be first in line to throw down a hefty deposit!

 

[Jetpilot3]

Good article. The last line is true however. There is nothing in either Honda or Acura's lineup I'd own except maybe the Pilot or Ridgeline p/u should I need the carrying capacity.

There's just too many other good vehicles out there which stir the soul that Acura and Honda lost a long time ago...:frown:

 

[HBui39]

I bought mine new in 04 before the tsx swap was even being steadily done. The point was that I already spent $24k... I shouldn't have to spend another $8-$10k on mods to make it fun. (I had a greddy turbo kit too).

The rsx is just a shadow of it's former self... Just like the rx8 / rx7... It seems like Mazda said "let's make a rx7 but more liveable so they numbed the suspension, neutered the engine and threw a back seat in it. Then change the number from 7 to 8 so we can add more suck to it"... That's what the dc5 is to the dc2. We don't want marshmallows Honda, we want fun cars!

don't speak ill of Mazda, they never intended the RX-8 to be an RX-7 replacement. they wanted a 4 seater sports car with a smooth accelerating engine for passenger comfort. it may not be the right concept, but they achieved it. the naming of the cars doesn't work like that... RX-7 is their 2 seater sports car, so a new RX-7 would still be called RX-7... RX-8 is a different type of car, hence the different name...

Honda lost its way and the people who made Honda what it was are gone, so there is no hope left. They left us with a few good ones... NSX, S2K, ITR... get em while you can.

 

[BD]

Other than the weight issue, is K20/24 better than H22?

I always though the H22 is the best 4 banner Honda ever made, even better than the F20/F22, in terms of drivability.

 

[OneRedNSX]

don't speak ill of Mazda, they never intended the RX-8 to be an RX-7 replacement. they wanted a 4 seater sports car with a smooth accelerating engine for passenger comfort. it may not be the right concept, but they achieved it. the naming of the cars doesn't work like that... RX-7 is their 2 seater sports car, so a new RX-7 would still be called RX-7... RX-8 is a different type of car, hence the different name...

Honda lost its way and the people who made Honda what it was are gone, so there is no hope left. They left us with a few good ones... NSX, S2K, ITR... get em while you can.

Wha?

They intended for the 8 to lead into a new 7. They did not get the 'concept' correct. If you recall, their "concept" was way down on power and way up on oil consumption and engine warranty claims. The 4 seat / 4 door deal was an attempt to lure buyers who would have a hard time justifying a RX7 to the wife and insurance company but wanted that sporty rotary that they remembered from the FC / FD years. (Everybody understands what naming sequences are used for cars, so I hope you weren't seriously trying to lecture somebody who has owned the majority of cars you listed...) Mazda was trying to maintain its "enthusiast" image (zoom zoom and all that) and this time period was the start of its decline. The lackluster performance of the RX8 is a big reason as to why you have yet to see anything other than a 'concept' rx7...

There are many similarities between Mazda and Honda... as many see Mazda as taking the same road...

• Former "sporty" cars being replaced by more mainstream versions...
• Halo cars that have been in some phase of development or another for a decade...
• Disconnect with the enthusiast base that made it popular to begin with...

I'm not talking about Honda there... but I could be... Mazda fits the bill just as nicely. Cars like the MS Protege, MP5, Miata, MS Miata, 323 GT/GTX variants, MS 6, 626GT, etc... All either dead or now just a vanilla car, produced for the masses...

The miata was praised for its entire career, up until the new, more 'comfortable' style was unveiled. RX8 was a huge disappointment for anybody other than a rotary fanboy. Mazdaspeed is a joke. They only thing that mazda seems to be pushing the envelope in these days is their styling... if only they weren't convinced people wanted to drive cars that resembled the Joker or a blowfish...

The point is, Mazda used to be right up there with enthusiast loyalty... while not always as 'popular' as Honda has been, they had quite a long run of getting things right. Now, just like Honda, they have been snuck-up on by competitors that realize that there is quite a market for customers who simply don't want a civic / accord.

 

[HBui39]

Wha?

They intended for the 8 to lead into a new 7. They did not get the 'concept' correct. If you recall, their "concept" was way down on power and way up on oil consumption and engine warranty claims. The 4 seat / 4 door deal was an attempt to lure buyers who would have a hard time justifying a RX7 to the wife and insurance company but wanted that sporty rotary that they remembered from the FC / FD years. (Everybody understands what naming sequences are used for cars, so I hope you weren't seriously trying to lecture somebody who has owned the majority of cars you listed...) Mazda was trying to maintain its "enthusiast" image (zoom zoom and all that) and this time period was the start of its decline. The lackluster performance of the RX8 is a big reason as to why you have yet to see anything other than a 'concept' rx7...

There are many similarities between Mazda and Honda... as many see Mazda as taking the same road...

• Former "sporty" cars being replaced by more mainstream versions...
• Halo cars that have been in some phase of development or another for a decade...
• Disconnect with the enthusiast base that made it popular to begin with...

I'm not talking about Honda there... but I could be... Mazda fits the bill just as nicely. Cars like the MS Protege, MP5, Miata, MS Miata, 323 GT/GTX variants, MS 6, 626GT, etc... All either dead or now just a vanilla car, produced for the masses...

The miata was praised for its entire career, up until the new, more 'comfortable' style was unveiled. RX8 was a huge disappointment for anybody other than a rotary fanboy. Mazdaspeed is a joke. They only thing that mazda seems to be pushing the envelope in these days is their styling... if only they weren't convinced people wanted to drive cars that resembled the Joker or a blowfish...

The point is, Mazda used to be right up there with enthusiast loyalty... while not always as 'popular' as Honda has been, they had quite a long run of getting things right. Now, just like Honda, they have been snuck-up on by competitors that realize that there is quite a market for customers who simply don't want a civic / accord.

whatever dude, you are so wrong in so many ways. i'm not gonna waste my time trying to correct you.

 

[bee_are_bee]

I always though the H22 is the best 4 banner Honda ever made, even better than the F20/F22, in terms of drivability.

Why do you say that? Just curious. I've owned both a '93 and '97 Prelude and currently own an '06 S2000.

 

[OneRedNSX]

whatever dude, you are so wrong in so many ways. i'm not gonna waste my time trying to correct you.

That is fine... saves me the trouble of reading whatever you write back after having no apparent experience with the cars in this conversation.

 

[BD]

Why do you say that? Just curious. I've owned both a '93 and '97 Prelude and currently own an '06 S2000.

I had a 1997 and a 1998 Prelude, and also AP1/AP2 S2k.

I still think the Prelude is a nicer car.

The engine is smoother, the VTEC kicks in Harder at a lower RPM, and personally, I don't think the S2k motor is faster, even though the test datas all show differently.

I guess it comes down to the way the car drives. I really like the H22 Preludes.

 

[Track Addict]

Apparently you don't understand the difference between horsepower and torque, and the effect of gearing on acceleration. What Hondas give up in torque (at the low end of the revband) they gain back (and more!) in the ability to maintain that torque at the upper end of the revband, and to extend that revband to very high levels, thereby taking advantage of shorter gearing. You can gain a better understanding of how this works and why it is important by reading this article by Bruce Augenstein.

QFT!


Thank you for posting this. :hug:

 

[BD]

Or they can tune the the torque at low RPM. I remember the first gen RL had all of the torque by 2000 RPM, so the car felt like a little V8...

 

[JonBoy]

The Type-R was quite light, even for its day. Drive it into a wall, then do the same with the newer Si, then tell me which you want to own. There's a reason the Type-R was fast and nimble and there's a reason they don't still make it.

 

[hondacbx]

This week I bought an ex Realtime Type R ! I cant wait to get it on the track. ( did a post on ITRCA gen. discussion) RSX-S is my daily driver ,ITR is a garage queen. I have tracked them both, ITR is by far the better car in stock form.

 

[docjohn]

This week I bought an ex Realtime Type R ! I cant wait to get it on the track. ( did a post on ITRCA gen. discussion) RSX-S is my daily driver ,ITR is a garage queen. I have tracked them both, ITR is by far the better car in stock form.

congrats are they selling any other of thier cars,like the tsx ect..and if you don't mind posting how much? or just PM me.

 

[Nukem]

I agree with everything you said except if I am reading this right(and correct me if I am wrong on what I think you mean) but the RX8 was not a replacement for the RX7. Just another edition to the rotary line up. I agree I think Mazda as well as Honda have lost the passion and will probably not regain it until it's too late.

Wha?

They intended for the 8 to lead into a new 7. They did not get the 'concept' correct. If you recall, their "concept" was way down on power and way up on oil consumption and engine warranty claims. The 4 seat / 4 door deal was an attempt to lure buyers who would have a hard time justifying a RX7 to the wife and insurance company but wanted that sporty rotary that they remembered from the FC / FD years. (Everybody understands what naming sequences are used for cars, so I hope you weren't seriously trying to lecture somebody who has owned the majority of cars you listed...) Mazda was trying to maintain its "enthusiast" image (zoom zoom and all that) and this time period was the start of its decline. The lackluster performance of the RX8 is a big reason as to why you have yet to see anything other than a 'concept' rx7...

There are many similarities between Mazda and Honda... as many see Mazda as taking the same road...

• Former "sporty" cars being replaced by more mainstream versions...
• Halo cars that have been in some phase of development or another for a decade...
• Disconnect with the enthusiast base that made it popular to begin with...

I'm not talking about Honda there... but I could be... Mazda fits the bill just as nicely. Cars like the MS Protege, MP5, Miata, MS Miata, 323 GT/GTX variants, MS 6, 626GT, etc... All either dead or now just a vanilla car, produced for the masses...

The miata was praised for its entire career, up until the new, more 'comfortable' style was unveiled. RX8 was a huge disappointment for anybody other than a rotary fanboy. Mazdaspeed is a joke. They only thing that mazda seems to be pushing the envelope in these days is their styling... if only they weren't convinced people wanted to drive cars that resembled the Joker or a blowfish...

The point is, Mazda used to be right up there with enthusiast loyalty... while not always as 'popular' as Honda has been, they had quite a long run of getting things right. Now, just like Honda, they have been snuck-up on by competitors that realize that there is quite a market for customers who simply don't want a civic / accord.

 

[nsxtasy]

The Type-R was quite light, even for its day. Drive it into a wall, then do the same with the newer Si, then tell me which you want to own. There's a reason the Type-R was fast and nimble and there's a reason they don't still make it.

If you are trying to imply that the Integra Type R is not crashworthy, then you are mistaken.

 

[Blacknot]

ehhh.....not bad but soooo little power down low.

I have a 4.77 rear in my S2000 and it really changed the car. Around a track it really helps