Extreme low oil pressure after engine rebuild

[ralph cerbone]

I would expect them to be installed already out of the box, but I have never used an aftermarket crank, given stock Honda crankshafts are some of the best forged cranks ever made. It is not unusual for a crankshaft to have these galleys. Below is the picture of the oem ball plugging the oil galley. Whenever I have a crankshaft cleaned up my machinist pulls these plugs cleans the galleys and then re-plugs them with allen plugs. I know this is your first build but an experienced engine builder should have noticed these missing regardless of the crankshaft being used. Especially pulling it apart 3x.

what 911 posted is correct , ok you made the mistake of not checking their work. when you ordered these parts did the vendors question you on your engine building experience , there are certain questions they should ask and from these they can tell at what skill level your at. I give you a lot of credit for undertaking this project and more for your patience .I had a friend install a 396 c.i. in a 67 camaro , called me stating oil was pouring out when he started the engine . I was pretty sure what the problem was,removed tranny and saw a galley plug was missing .Installed a 1/8 plug in the oil galley ,then fired motor ,it was ok . The engine builder told him it was probably the oil filter .I gave him a camshaft and told him to throw it thru his front window ,he told the engine shop what i said (shop owner was a friend of mine ),yea that sounds like ralphy. I have no patience for this b.s.

 

[FXMDKen]

I would expect them to be installed already out of the box, but I have never used an aftermarket crank, given stock Honda crankshafts are some of the best forged cranks ever made. It is not unusual for a crankshaft to have these galleys. Below is the picture of the oem ball plugging the oil galley. Whenever I have a crankshaft cleaned up my machinist pulls these plugs cleans the galleys and then re-plugs them with allen plugs. I know this is your first build but an experienced engine builder should have noticed these missing regardless of the crankshaft being used. Especially pulling it apart 3x.

The BC crankshaft comes with them uninstalled, it is up to the machinist or engine builder to double check the galleys are clean and clear. They come in a bag that is included in the box, which could very easily be over looked, misplaced, or thrown out. In the dozens of BC cranks we have used in various platforms we never encountered this issue???

However, as you mentioned an experienced engine builder would realize this. They would also know what the pistons would look like at deck height, that the rod bearings for aftermarket rods need to be machined flush, that the main caps are align honed to the main bearings that are supplied and do not require two additional sets of over/unders, etc... I expressed on many occasions the need for an experienced engine builder as well. But, all this is "water under the bridge". The plugs have been sent out at our cost and hopefully this project will work out. I am sure it will hold anything that they throw at it as long as it has been built properly and tuned accordingly.

Thanks for your input, you are one of the few vocal members here on prime with substantial knowledge.

 

[nsxinkl]

The BC crankshaft comes with them uninstalled, it is up to the machinist or engine builder to double check the galleys are clean and clear. They come in a bag that is included in the box, which could very easily be over looked, misplaced, or thrown out. In the dozens of BC cranks we have used in various platforms we never encountered this issue???

Mr Dan Benson, the machinist has confirmed that the bag is not included in the box. I personally delivered the box to my mechanic and opened it with him, we did look extra carefully for other components and none were found in the box. I have asked you in my email whether there is such a plug. You chose to ignore that email as you find my numerous emails and questions rather tiresome and annoying.

I do admit that i have no experience in engine building. As a vendor it should be part of your customer service to provide guidance, advice and help to your customers especially one as inexperienced as I. Throughout this fiasco, i am surprised that my machinist and other members of nsxprime are more helpful, patient and tolerant than the vendor.

You did leave out some vital parts (apart from the plugs) when you shipped it to Mr Dan Benson (which you did send subsequently). As a responsible vendor, you should ensure that all the parts are boxed up and shipped out properly, especially to a customer who lives half way across the globe. It is not right of you to insinuate that my mechanic, mechanist or I threw the parts away. We may be inexperience but we are no fools.

Anyway, I thank you for shipping the missing parts out to me.

 

[E-Nough Logic]

I don't know all the details but unless they had a specific reason to open the package, I wouldn't expect FXMD to open the packaging from Brian Crower just to check its contents, and I also wouldn't expect Dan to know whether the plugs are included as he is just the middle man in all this. The crank passed through many hands before it was delivered and who knows what happened to the plugs if they were ever there. Unfortunately it went unnoticed for so long. Just chalk it up to a very unfortunate set of circumstances unless you are looking for someone to burn, then by all means whoever assembled the motor.

 

[nsxinkl]

I don't know all the details but unless they had a specific reason to open the package, I wouldn't expect FXMD to open the packaging from Brian Crower just to check its contents, and I also wouldn't expect Dan to know whether the plugs are included as he is just the middle man in all this. The crank passed through many hands before it was delivered and who knows what happened to the plugs if they were ever there. Unfortunately it went unnoticed for so long. Just chalk it up to a very unfortunate set of circumstances unless you are looking for someone to burn, then by all means whoever assembled the motor.

Dan Benson was kind and accomodating enough to receive the boxes from other vendors on behalf before I arrange for my courier to collect all the boxes from him. He did inspect the contents of the boxes. It was he who told me that fxmd left out a few bearings in boxes (which they did send out to Dan after I informed them).

Let's let this matter rest. I only wanna complete my engine build.

 

[nsxinkl]

I have received the plugs but the instructions is not included in the parcel even though Ken of FXMD promised me that he will send it to me. This will further delay my project.

 

[FXMDKen]

Dan Benson was kind and accomodating enough to receive the boxes from other vendors on behalf before I arrange for my courier to collect all the boxes from him. He did inspect the contents of the boxes. It was he who told me that fxmd left out a few bearings in boxes (which they did send out to Dan after I informed them).

Let's let this matter rest. I only wanna complete my engine build.

If this is your logic wouldn't he have noticed that the oil galley plugs were not installed or missing since he opened the box from BC? I am still not sure how we would be responsible for their packaging? I'm not trying to point the finger at Ben but I am having a hard time rationalizing why you continue to focus the blame on us for something that comes packaged from the manufacturer? In addition, I dont think missing bearings would have caused this issue as it was here state side prior to the motor build? What would cause an issue would be installing these bearings without machining them correctly and running the motor.

I sent you exactly what comes from BC when you purchase a crankshaft. I dont think I should be responsible for writing an instruction manual for their product. Having said that, I believe you will install the circular threaded plugs into the circular threaded oil galley holes, they are the only ones that are threaded on the crankshaft. I would not try to install the circular plugs into any holes that are square or not threaded Prior to doing this it would be wise to clean out and inspect the oil galleys before screwing in the plugs.

 

[nsxinkl]

Plugs installed. Problem solved!:smile:

For the record FXMD promised to send me instructions on a few ocassions but did not do it in the end. I have asked them if there is any plugs which were not included. Instead of answering my question when i need their help most, FXMD chose to ignore my email. If they took the time to read my email and answer it that would have saved me lots of time, money and anxiety! They seem to treat customers as annoying and troublesome troublemakers when their customer service is sought.

I remember their attitude were a whole lot better when they tried to convince me to buy their motor package instead of going for the 3.5 stroker kit from SOS.

 

[Moses]

Having said that, I believe you will install the circular threaded plugs into the circular threaded oil galley holes, they are the only ones that are threaded on the crankshaft. I would not try to install the circular plugs into any holes that are square or not threaded

:biggrin:

 

[Mac Attack]

I would have been interested in instructions too. For example, do you use Loctite? What torque?

All valid questions, and it certainly hurts your image trying to sell this engine build kit in the future when you mock the customer.

Sorry - couldn't help throwing my $0.02 in from the peanut gallery.


NSXINKL: If you have a chance someday, I know people would be interested in your build thread. You have a very nice car and have made a lot of changes to it (and have unfortunately had to deal with a few problematic vendors).

Dave

 

[FXMDKen]

I would have been interested in instructions too. For example, do you use Loctite? What torque?

All valid questions, and it certainly hurts your image trying to sell this engine build kit in the future when you mock the customer.

Sorry - couldn't help throwing my $0.02 in from the peanut gallery.

Dave

Dave,

I understand what you are saying. In this case enough was enough, I can only take so many accusations and finger pointing… We do not, will not, and do not need to tolerate this sort of behavior regardless of being a buyer or seller.

To those tuned in, Nick at Applied Motorsports is an excellent tech with a great deal of experience building this motor as well as bulletproof transmissions. I would also recommend Science of Speed and or course Shad at Driving Ambition. You will pay a hefty premium, but if you need your hand held throughout the entire process I would seek their services.

 

[nsxinkl]

Dave,

I understand what you are saying. In this case enough was enough, I can only take so many accusations and finger pointing… We do not, will not, and do not need to tolerate this sort of behavior regardless of being a buyer or buyer.

I don't think you understand at all. You ignore my questions in my email to you which could have save me all the hassle, time and cost. You didn't include bearings and plugs in your parcel. You didn't provide instructions even though you promised to send and told me to follow those instructions strictly. Finally, you mock me for asking for instructions which you purposely chose not to send together with the missing plugs despite your earlier promises to do so. These are not accusations and finger pointing. These are legitimate complaints about your mistakes and deplorable attitude towards your paying customers.

I agree with you - enough is enough! Throughout all these, you were not apologetic and showed no remorse whatsoever for your mistake and the trouble which you have caused others. All you care about is defending yourself (by denying all fault and insinuating that your mistake and oversight was caused by others) and being irritated for the customer service which is expected of you (you deemed all these as annoying, troublesome and tiresome).

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

 

[FXMDKen]

I don't think you understand at all. You ignore my questions in my email to you which could have save me all the hassle, time and cost. You didn't include bearings and plugs in your parcel. You didn't provide instructions even though you promised to send and told me to follow those instructions strictly. Finally, you mock me for asking for instructions which you purposely chose not to send together with the missing plugs despite your earlier promises to do so. These are not accusations and finger pointing. These are legitimate complaints about your mistakes and deplorable attitude towards your paying customers.

I agree with you - enough is enough! Throughout all these, you were not apologetic and showed no remorse whatsoever for your mistake and the trouble which you have caused others. All you care about is defending yourself (by denying all fault and insinuating that your mistake and oversight was caused by others) and being irritated for the customer service which is expected of you (you deemed all these as annoying, troublesome and tiresome).

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

I believe one email was not answered at that time as it was over looked by mistake. Another email took a day as it was on the weekend and I had a private event, but was answered shortly after. My runner did forget to put in the rod bearings, which were ordered and sent in a timely manner.

As mentioned many times before, we are not responsible for the packaging of the manufacturer thus we do not consider the plugs to be in any way shape of form our fault. Although this was the case we still shipped them out on our dime as it was the right thing to do.

I thought there were instructions included in the packaging of the BC box, but BC does not provide them, only what was sent to you in the package. Parts card, sticker, plugs.

If you think we should be at BC watching them package all of their parts, or if we should make sure the machinist does not misplace them or forget to tell you they are not there then you can put the blame on us. However, I would think the machinist would tell you post machine work that they are not there (or possibly he assumed the engine builder was competent), or at the very least when your engine builder assembled this motor he would have realized this as well, especially after three times. I believe this is the core issue that is being argued?

Yes, I did mock you, am not apologetic, and have zero remorse for your situation. I would normally feel compassion in this situation but that has long since washed away after the constant accusations on a public forum as well as emails regarding false accusations that ended up being a lack of experience and knowledge on your engine builders part.

Quite simply, you brought this situation on yourself by not having a qualified engine builder assembling this motor. Instead of taking responsibility for this and chalking it up to experience you choose to look for pity on a public forum and attempt to villainize me in the process.

 

[Ponyboy]

Whoa...this turned into a train wreck.

 

[nsxinkl]

Yes, I did mock you, am not apologetic, and have zero remorse for your situation. I would normally feel compassion in this situation but that has long since washed away after the constant accusations on a public forum as well as emails regarding false accusations that ended up being a lack of experience and knowledge on your engine builders part.

I rest my case. Res Ipsa Loquitar!

 

[FXMDKen]

Whoa...this turned into a train wreck.

Tell me about it! Perhaps it’s the election that has me fired up, the sense of entitlement we Americans feel these days ( I know he is not), the lack of responsibility and accountability over the years by our financial institutions, and the constant character assassination I am seeing everyday through media channels by both political parties.

Something with this really hit a nerve, it seems as though in today’s society everyone it looking to blame the other guy and I am tired of it. Who knows though, in some of your eyes I may be the one pointing the finger as well!

I hope this matter is put to rest as I do not spend much time here and when I do I try to be constructive and helpful.

 

[1-Old-Man]

I would be very interested in hearing what your hot oil pressure is after the problem(s) have been corrected. I am a slavish devotee of oil pressure and don't feel comfortable unless I see something on the order of 3 bars (~45psi) at high idle and maybe 5 bars (~75psi) or more before the relief valve (ball and spring) opens. As I said, I'd be very interested in seeing your readings after it goes back together.