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Food for thought - Supra Vs. Viper
- Thread starter angus
- Start date
I had a buddy who was a Supra fan and ownd a MKIII and MKIV. Seems he was on on the note that the viper was more of the next step up from a Supra in terms of HP. I would like to see what is said here on this subject.
I am aware of 1000+ HP builds on the 2JZ-GTE, but I figure the Viper was a bit more potential for greater numbers. I think for stock to max tune, the Supra has a tremendous gain over the Viper.
I would like to some analysis of this.
I am aware of 1000+ HP builds on the 2JZ-GTE, but I figure the Viper was a bit more potential for greater numbers. I think for stock to max tune, the Supra has a tremendous gain over the Viper.
I would like to some analysis of this.
The old adage there is no substitution for cubic inches comes to mind.. As a viper owner I can tell you the torque is incredible! Plus vipers in factory form are very mild, Hennessy is putting twin turbos on them and getting around 2,000hp out of them. I read an article where they were comparing the viper, zr1 vette and the ford gt. They said the gt and the zr1 were about tapped for hp (both being supercharged) but the viper had a lot more potential. All were factory 600hp.
The 2000 Viper GTS Coupe was my first American car in more than 15 years. Since you are an NSX owner, I will assume that you are a fan of build quality, reliability, and all the things normal foreign car owners look for. I wanted the high horsepower American muscle; just once. Within 1 month of getting the Viper, the handbrake came out of the center console (yes, it actually came out), the electric door handles quit working, the radio stopped working, and the mirror controls broke. Back in the early 90's I bought my Dad's IROC-Z (yes i know, please forgive me . . . . I was 16). The Viper reminded me of the IROC-Z every time I shut the door. CLAAAAAAAANG!! I still love that body style, but what a hunk of Dodge that thing was. So, there it is. Supra all the way.
There is a Nsx owner here who has had both and still has his viper and nsx I hope he will chim in
Maybe I didn't make clear that I've had both also. Regardless, it's only my opinion. :biggrin:
I currently have both a nsx and a viper but i do not own a supra.
The viper came out as a modern day replacement for the a/c cobra. The idea is simple, big engine light and simple car. They never have and never will produce a viper with a cup holder or cruse control.
The viper is really a race car on the street. I can and have had the transmission out in 20 mins so when you are at the track and want to change gears or something like that it can be done with much problem. I can get a torque wrench on all 10 spark plug and get to every bolt on the back of the engine. I have had the good fortune to not have any of the problems that jonas1jp had with his viper.
I am sure a supra is as easy to work on as my viper but the are two totally different cars and philosophies behind them.
I love my nsx but wish when Honda was designing it they would have put a access panel in the trunk to make getting at the rear of the engine easier..lol..
Vipers are pretty and somehow exotic, I'd go Viper over the Supra :0
Why get a second gen GTS when you can find a third gen SRT-10 for the same price range?
There have even been some deals on third gen coupes for around $45-48k - the viper market has been especially soft the last few months.
There have even been some deals on third gen coupes for around $45-48k - the viper market has been especially soft the last few months.
Hey I know that guy. :wink: No replacement for displacement when making power. The biggest difference power wise is that you can make big power on pump gas in the Viper and not in any small displacement car. Model year 2000+ Vipers require new pistons to make big power so bang for the buck 1997-1999 is your best bet.
Aside from both cars being fast, the Supra and Viper are very different. You need to drive both as that will tell you which one you want.
To the guy who said the Viper is built poorly, well it is a hand built car. I have not had the issues with mine that you have had with yours. I will say that NSX door handles are known to break as well, do a search. I actually take pride in having a handmade car built in America. Sorta unhip on this site but whatever.
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Because the GTS is the best looking Viper to date at least to me it is.
I agree and disagree. There is something muscular and exotic and brutal about the GTS that the RT and the SRT failed to capture. However, I think that the SRT is a better looking car, while the GTS is a better looking Viper.
As a former GTS ACR owner/driver, I agree!
Now, the Viper will dominate HP potential. The Supra has a great engine, but the Viper's 8.0 will always win in a HP war, its HP will have a better band and be more usable as well. Not to mention the Viper is more aerodynamic, and lighter by a substantial margin as well.
If HP potential is your ONLY goal, the Viper wins without contest.
The Supra wins in a number of other categories, but none of those were listed as being criteria.
The OP is talking about GTSs which are Gen 2s. The ones you are seeing cheap are Gen 1 RT-10s. Even those cheap ones are the same cost a solid NA1 NSX or TT Supra.
You’re the first person I have ever heard lump the MKIII and MKIV Supra's together. The MKIII's are almost free, with runners starting at $2k. No real collectability with them as the MKIV bests it in every way.
Dollar per dollar an older Viper might be better, but it depends on how much money you're putting in total...because after a certain amount of power, the Viper's transmission have serious issues and have no pull in fifth, if i recall correctly...at which point, the Supra starts looking better...
Unless you just want a big number HP car and don't plan to tap into that kind of power...
Unless you just want a big number HP car and don't plan to tap into that kind of power...
What... Where did you come up with this? No pull in fifth, what does that even mean? Why are you posting while the grown up are talking?
Just in case the OP actually wants facts, the Viper transmission can handle insane amounts of power. What has happened in the past is Vipers braking transmissions running the mile. This is due to Viper's making 1500 rwtq to go along with their 1500rwhp. A Supra at 1500rwhp will make closer to 900rwtq.
Most sane people will never get within 700hp of those types of cars nor would they want the trade offs that come with them. As I said before you really need to drive both cars as dyno graphs only tell half the story.
Taking this in a slightly different direction. Ilmore marine in the UK
Takes the Viper motor, tweaks it to 725hp and sells them for offshore
powerboat racing. Don't quote me on this but I think they get 75k per motor!
They make a ton of torque which is needed to push 8 ton boats through 6th waves. From what have heard from race teams is that the motor is nearly bulletproof.
http://www.mercuryracing.com/_media/pdf/Merc-vs-Ilmore--Boating.pdf
Great read for boaters.
Takes the Viper motor, tweaks it to 725hp and sells them for offshore
powerboat racing. Don't quote me on this but I think they get 75k per motor!
They make a ton of torque which is needed to push 8 ton boats through 6th waves. From what have heard from race teams is that the motor is nearly bulletproof.
http://www.mercuryracing.com/_media/pdf/Merc-vs-Ilmore--Boating.pdf
Great read for boaters.
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To the guy who said the Viper is built poorly, well it is a hand built car. I have not had the issues with mine that you have had with yours. I will say that NSX door handles are known to break as well, do a search. I actually take pride in having a handmade car built in America. Sorta unhip on this site but whatever.
This is an American hand-built car; much different than the normal story when you talk about hand-built.
Comparing the reliability of the NSX and the Viper is not something that carries a lot of clout with me, but feel free.
I thought I'd share my experience of owning the vehicle. After all, I had always wanted one. I don't care what's popular on Prime - I have found most people here to be genuine car nuts and able to find the attraction of many different automobiles. Personally, I thought it was junk. It's a beautiful design, but junk. I'm entitled to that opinion - no eye-rolling necessary.
Somewhat off topic of the thread, but just to makes the facts an actual Part of your message... The Ford GT motor is easily capable of 800 rwhp without changing anything, including the fuel supply. Just swapping my pulley got me 643 rwhp and 620 rwtq. And fwiw, 500 of that torque is there at 1500 rpm. Putting a whipple on there, with zero changed to motor or even fuel, puts 825rwhp on tap.
wow that is really cool!
I was just quoting the article. The Ford GT is one on my favorite cars and hope to be privileged enough to one day own one myself.
Umm what? Vipers really excel at high speed pulls. The trans is a very simple very bulletproof and time-proven designed transmission, I haven't seen many with issues/failure.
I just stay away from them because I've heard about them blowing up on the track from a friend on more than one occasion. Vettes and Lamborghinis seem to do just fine, but the Vipers can't manage to stay together through a whole day is what he said.
Could be mods or whatever.
Now's probably a better time than ever to get into one though. I can't justify paying the Supra prices. Hardly any of those left unmodified anymore.
Could be mods or whatever.
Now's probably a better time than ever to get into one though. I can't justify paying the Supra prices. Hardly any of those left unmodified anymore.
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Nothing against usafdarkhorse, but why is it that claims of poor reliability or performance or outrageous costs always come by 2nd or 3rd hand?
It's difficult to find someone saying "this car sucks" without attaching "my friend's dad told me so" to the end of it.
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