Front Downforce question

[jmp]

Have a 91 ctsc, susp., brakes, decent rubber, etc and entirely stock body except for a type r real spoiler. Doing brake ducting now as more than once when I have tracked, developed a front brake shuddering. Hope this helps.

My question regards front spoilers to develop enhanced downforce on the track like the rear spoiler I have added. I have seen some vehicles with (excuse the imperfect terminology here) a wing on either side in front of the front wheel wells, perhaps 3" to 4" above the bottom of the body that are nearly horizontal with a tapering upward from front to rear. Have no idea what these wings are called but to the inexpert eye the would appear to create downforce without comprising street driveablity (ie no lower and so not hitting parking curbs).

They probably also look pretty decent in carbon fiber.

What are these called and does anyone make them for a 91? Does anyone have experience with them and are they effective? Thanks to all!

 

[CL65 Captain]

Have a 91 ctsc, susp., brakes, decent rubber, etc and entirely stock body except for a type r real spoiler. Doing brake ducting now as more than once when I have tracked, developed a front brake shuddering. Hope this helps.

My question regards front spoilers to develop enhanced downforce on the track like the rear spoiler I have added. I have seen some vehicles with (excuse the imperfect terminology here) a wing on either side in front of the front wheel wells, perhaps 3" to 4" above the bottom of the body that are nearly horizontal with a tapering upward from front to rear. Have no idea what these wings are called but to the inexpert eye the would appear to create downforce without comprising street driveablity (ie no lower and so not hitting parking curbs).

They probably also look pretty decent in carbon fiber.

What are these called and does anyone make them for a 91? Does anyone have experience with them and are they effective? Thanks to all!

they are called Canards. Ask NSXBuilder, he has them on his car.

IMO they are ugly for a street car and there are better ways to create front downforce - including a splitter, sealed undertray and vented hood. Canards are not really for downforce at all, but to manage air traveling around the car. This reduces drag and minimizes air flowing from the side of the car to the underside. That's how they "create" downforce.


http://nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157047

 

[phryxis]

Have a 91 ctsc, susp., brakes, decent rubber, etc and entirely stock body except for a type r real spoiler. Doing brake ducting now as more than once when I have tracked, developed a front brake shuddering. Hope this helps.

My question regards front spoilers to develop enhanced downforce on the track like the rear spoiler I have added. I have seen some vehicles with (excuse the imperfect terminology here) a wing on either side in front of the front wheel wells, perhaps 3" to 4" above the bottom of the body that are nearly horizontal with a tapering upward from front to rear. Have no idea what these wings are called but to the inexpert eye the would appear to create downforce without comprising street driveablity (ie no lower and so not hitting parking curbs).

They probably also look pretty decent in carbon fiber.

What are these called and does anyone make them for a 91? Does anyone have experience with them and are they effective? Thanks to all!

They are called canards.

I have no actual driving experience with them, but they are used extensively on time attack cars so they are certainly beneficial.

 

[docjohn]

put the words front canards into the search function.I think a good front splitter and a front hood duct with the type r underbody tray will net more front downforce than the canards and nothing else.In general though street cars like the nsx benefit from mods to increase mechanical grip rather than aero grip.....imho canards on a street car are more placebo......you becoming a better driver will outweigh any mods you could do to your car when charted with lap times.

 

[RYU]

It was good for something like 16lbs of downforce on the GT3 RS. Don't quote me on the amount.. my memory sucks

For front downforce this is what i'd do.. I know.. you didn't ask.
>> Type R under tray and Type R vented hood with radiator duct. Then if I still can't beat the guy with the stock civic then i'll do the splitter and canards. Then if he's still faster yet i'd make it look like this

Oh, yea.. I should have just paid for driving lessons. Doh!

 

[HBui39]

brake shuddering doesn't sound aerodynamics related... check these out.

http://www.ct-engineering.com/ProductLineup/AcuraNSX/AcuraNSXSuspensionChassisUpgrades/CompetitionFrontNonComplianceClampNSX/tabid/1026/Default.aspx

 

[CL65 Captain]

Brake shuddering is more than likely pad deposit buildup on the rotors. This can be caused by numerous things including:

1. not properly bedding in pads
2. pads and rotors being incompatible - ie RacingBrake rotors do not like Carbotech pad material and will form smears, hotspots and pad build up.
3. overheating a pad that is not designed for the temp you are subjecting it to.
4. switching pads to different manufacturer/pad material on the same rotor (ie - going from a street pad to track pad).

 

[liftnot]

they are called Canards.
Aka - Ankle slicer:biggrin:

there are better ways to create front downforce - including a splitter, sealed undertray and vented hood. Canards are not really for downforce at all,

front splitter and a front hood duct with the type r underbody tray will net more front downforce than the canards

+ 1 Like others have chimed in....a frt splitter is much more efficient to produce DF than canards, even a small one.

 

[jmp]

thnx.

 

[g3driver]

Have a 91 ctsc, susp., brakes, decent rubber, etc and entirely stock body except for a type r real spoiler. Doing brake ducting now as more than once when I have tracked, developed a front brake shuddering. Hope this helps.

My question regards front spoilers to develop enhanced downforce on the track like the rear spoiler I have added. I have seen some vehicles with (excuse the imperfect terminology here) a wing on either side in front of the front wheel wells, perhaps 3" to 4" above the bottom of the body that are nearly horizontal with a tapering upward from front to rear. Have no idea what these wings are called but to the inexpert eye the would appear to create downforce without comprising street driveablity (ie no lower and so not hitting parking curbs).

They probably also look pretty decent in carbon fiber.

What are these called and does anyone make them for a 91? Does anyone have experience with them and are they effective? Thanks to all!

I had the same thing and similar setup. What stopped it for me was buying a set of Hubcentric rings for Enkei rims. I have rfp01.
http://www.daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=1917
Seemed to stop my vibration.
Hope this helps.
http://www.outrageousracing.com

 

[jmp]

thanks to all.

 

[Gansan]

The small front dive planes/canards make a bit of downforce on their own, but in an integrated aero package, they are often used to alter how air flows down the sides of the car. You can use them to reduce the amount air that slips under the side skirts, which increases downforce more than you would think if you were looking at them in isolation.

 

[geometro]

In agreement with the rest of the folks here, a splitter would be the best bang for the buck modification for adding front downforce.

Then add a front undertray and ducted hood.

Finally canards for the last N-th amount.

 

[1K2GO]

This:

 

[nsxbuilder]

It's called the 'every little bit helps' rule, kind of like weight reduction and owning Apple stock. I ran for years without the winglets, and now that I have them I'll never take them off - should be standard on the car. Like when I did the vented hood, it was a directly noticeable change for the better on high speed cornering and more noticeably, braking. Before I added them there was always a bit of squirm coming down from 100+ for a tight corner, but with the canards it was just planted, flat and predictable.

I'm adding the R wing this week, and will see how that affects the balance...may need the front under tray then. It never ends. Isn't it great?

 

[HIJACKER]

This:

Who makes it and where can I buy?

 

[1K2GO]

Who makes it and where can I buy?

From the guy on the right (in the pic) Shad Huntley @ http://www.drivingambition.us/

This is a track only component, not suitable for the street. I learned this the hard way. It must be custom fabbed to your car and aint cheap either. According to Kip Olson, combined with a real race wing, its good for approx 2 seconds per lap. Thats downforce.