Front wheels wandering @80MPH up.

[Jin1976]

I'm suspecting worn front shocks. The mechanic at the alignment shop said ball joints. If it is ball joint how much would the replacement cost?

FYI the wheels tend to go by its own way although not by much, I fear that at higher speed this could affect the car handling performance.

Forgot to mention that before the alignment was done the front tires had been eaten from the inside due to wrong alignment (toe out).

Please help. :frown:

 

[RP-Motorsports]

Re: Front wheels wondering @80MPH up.

What front lip (or absence of one) are you using? I had the RM lip, and my car was stable all the way to 160mph. It got destroyed in a track incident, and I ran without it, and I was scared as hell above 80mph Also if you are running brand new tires, your car will feel loose for a bit until scrubbed in. If you don't have a front air dam aka lip, put one on. If nothing else has changed, check your toe (alignment) or then shocks.

 

[Jin1976]

Re: Front wheels wondering @80MPH up.

Thanks for the quick reply. These are the condtions of my car:

1. The front lower plastic cover under the front bumper was removed (cut).
2. I have the front lip on.
3. Front tires a basically 2005 Pirelli Dragon. Due to incorrect alignment the toe was set toe out resulting in a lot of wearing in the inside of the tires. Wheels are OEM.
4. The front shock need to be replaced and still awaiting for new ones. Rear had been recently replaced.
5. The car now has been correctly aligned.

Everything else is very much OEM. Still the problem is there. :frown:

What front lip (or absence of one) are you using? I had the RM lip, and my car was stable all the way to 160mph. It got destroyed in a track incident, and I ran without it, and I was scared as hell above 80mph Also if you are running brand new tires, your car will feel loose for a bit until scrubbed in. If you don't have a front air dam aka lip, put one on. If nothing else has changed, check your toe (alignment) or then shocks.

 

[Osiris_x11]

sounds familiar!

Jin76er, I'm in a similar situation as you... I get slight vibration & floaty feeling above 80mph lately. Usually I suspect: improper treadwear, unbalanced tires, dead-spot on tires (from sudden/emergency stop from high-speed), or alignment off specs'.

I'm gonna check-it out tomorrow!

I have OEM wheels w/ Yokohama AVS ES100 tires (< 5k miles), alignment was done past June to OEM specs', original stock suspension (>70k'ish miles), no front lip.

In my garage, I have a Comptech front lip, Zanardi suspension, 17/17 Advan Model 5's, Goodyear F1 GS-D3 tires that I will get installed on the NSX this week... then go for a follow-up alignment.

I'll keep you posted on what comes of it! From what I've heard, I'm not so convinced your front floaty-handling at >80mph is suspension/shock related. Make sure all is cool w/ your tires!

What front lip (or absence of one) are you using? I had the RM lip, and my car was stable all the way to 160mph. It got destroyed in a track incident, and I ran without it, and I was scared as hell above 80mph .

That's nuts! I never knew that could happen... :frown: I'm planning to get my aftermarket lip molded to my front bumper valance, I hope that doesn't cause any aerodynamic consequences!

 

[Jett]

Re: Front wheels wondering @80MPH up.

When I reread your post, and allowing for the language difference, what I think you might be referring to is a wheel bearing problem. Have the front wheel bearings been replaced?

If the alignment is set correctly, the inside of the front tires WILL wear much quicker than the outside of the front tires. This is normal due to the "caster" setting which leans the tires in at the top. However, front toe-out is not normal. The fronts wheels should be set with a relatively high amount of toe-in and caster.

I don't think it is ball joints. First, are you absolutely certain that it is not a tire problem? When I had Pirelli P-zeros, they wandered more than any other tire I have ever owned. Although expensive, I didn't like them on the NSX at all. How long have you had the Pirelli tires, and what tire brand did you have on the car before? Is it possible to try another tire brand?

If you are SURE it isn't the tires, check the wheel bearings, front struts, and last the ball joints.

 

[Doc308]

Re: Front wheels wondering @80MPH up.

I just had to have the tie rods replaced on my '92 . It was beginning to feel kind of snakey /floating as well.

 

[MLmotorsport]

I've got a "float" as well - it's most noticeable at hiway speeds. Mine is definitely a tie rod issue. You can tell by jacking the front end of the car up and grabbing the each wheel and wiggling (be sure to lock your steering wheel first - key out). My left one had some fore/aft play. Larry Bastanza found this problem on mine. He said that though it's a tie rod issue - it likely won't need a new one but rahter will need to be properly installed (something about a washer that needs to be bent?). This was confirmed by John Vassos @ Brookfield as he said tie rod replacement is very rarely needed on the NSX's. He's going to have my car this thurs and friday so I will let you know exactly what the fix was.
The "snakey" back and forth motion is a definitely unsettling at higher speeds.

 

[Jin1976]

I'm also beginning to feel it more about the tires first being improper wear on the inside and also them being Pirelli. I never had this problem when I was with Bridgestone or any other tires. I had the tires for about three months now. It was wandering a little bit at the beginning and now a little bit more. I'll try to replace them maybe this weekend and see how it goes.

 

[NSXCELERATE]

Alignment and my highspeed wandering seems to have dissapeared

 

[Gerard van Santen]

Re: Front wheels wondering @80MPH up.

......However, front toe-out is not normal. The fronts wheels should be set with a relatively high amount of toe-in and caster.

Do I read this correct? Are you saying that the front wheels should be set with toe in?

That is not correct. Front needs to be set toe out and the rears need to be set with toe in.

 

[MLmotorsport]

Mine was solved by just putting a new clip on the inner tie rod - i didn't get to see them do it - but it was something like $30 for diagnosis and fix and the swaying was totally gone. Cheap.... yes - I have to just say that John Vassos is an absolute class act! I'm still floored at the kind of care both I and my car got there. I'm going to post more about it on the "Midwest" forum but I can't stop raving about John and Bill at Brookfield!
michael

 

[jgtcnsx]

Re: Front wheels wondering @80MPH up.

When I reread your post, and allowing for the language difference, what I think you might be referring to is a wheel bearing problem. Have the front wheel bearings been replaced?

If the alignment is set correctly, the inside of the front tires WILL wear much quicker than the outside of the front tires. This is normal due to the "caster" setting which leans the tires in at the top. However, front toe-out is not normal. The fronts wheels should be set with a relatively high amount of toe-in and caster.

I don't think it is ball joints. First, are you absolutely certain that it is not a tire problem? When I had Pirelli P-zeros, they wandered more than any other tire I have ever owned. Although expensive, I didn't like them on the NSX at all. How long have you had the Pirelli tires, and what tire brand did you have on the car before? Is it possible to try another tire brand?

If you are SURE it isn't the tires, check the wheel bearings, front struts, and last the ball joints.

caster? caster is the forward or backward tilt of the upper ball joint, you are talking about camber.and nsxs are toe out not toe in, negative toe is toe out, positive toe is toe in

do you have aftermarket springs on?

if your tires wear eating on the inside you had negative camber, if you have negative camber on the right you will pull to the left, and vice versa. if it was toe in or toe out you would have a feathering wear. toe out is normal for the front on the nsx . if it is a camber problem it could be ball joints, or wear of suspension bushings which is causeing the ball joint to move in. if i were you i would go and get it alligned, and get it checked out or even yourself get underneeth and take a look for worn suspension parts. but take care of it, your safety for you and the nsx is worth much more :wink:

 

[jgtcnsx]

Re: Front wheels wondering @80MPH up.

Do I read this correct? Are you saying that the front wheels should be set with toe in?

That is not correct. Front needs to be set toe out and the rears need to be set with toe in.

that is correct :smile:

 

[Jin1976]

I got the car checked today just for safety measure and found out that I may need to replace the inner tie-rods and the tie rod ends. I will get them tommorow and get them installed tommorow night. $$$ :frown:

Do I really need to replace the inner tie-rod?

(11) Inner tie rod
(13) Outer tie rod assembly (tie-rod end)

 

[MLmotorsport]

I originally was told I needed a tie rod to fix the problem as well - but upon an expert inspection they found that the clips(?) holding the inner tie rod in were the problem. I've been told by quite a few relaible sources that the tie rods rarely go on these cars but that the clips are usually the culprit on the inners. As I said before a relatively expensive fix (new rods) was not necessary and $30 later the car was perfect.
good luck
michael

 

[Jin1976]

Okay. Had the tie-rod ends replaced tonight and that has reduced the vibration of the wheel considerably. I will get the wheel aligned tomorrow and test on the flat road to see if the car is wandering again at higher speed.

Also found out that both tie-road had the boot totally flatten and the ball joints swing quite easilly.

Steering wheel now feel tighter than before. Below is the photo of the removed tie-rod ends. The boots are totally flat and ball joints are very loose.

 

[Jett]

After reviewing front-end setup theory, I apologize for my incorrect posting. Toe-out IS normal for the front of an NSX, with a relatively high caster setting, and a relatively high negative camber setting.

I am sorry for being so confused!

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Jin1976,

Go here:

http://www.acuraparts247.com/prddis...R+NSX&catcgry5=TIE+ROD&ListAll=All&vinsrch=no

Notice Part #5 53536-SB2-000 WASHER, TIE ROD LOCK

This is the part Michael had to replace and have set properly to cure his "loose" Inner Toe Rod. If your Inner Toe Rods feel loose at the ball joint (the arm is loose and drops without resistance), they may in fact be bad. Check for play in the ball joint of the Tie Rod.

The best way, as I mentioned in another thread, is to jack up the wheel and hold it at 3:00 and 9:00 o'clock. If it is tight, without play, after the Tie Rod Ends are installed you are finished. If not check the Inner Tie Rods again.

HTH,
LarryB

 

[MLmotorsport]

The best way, as I mentioned in another thread, is to jack up the wheel and hold it at 3:00 and 9:00 o'clock. If it is tight, without play, after the Tie Rod Ends are installed you are finished. If not check the Inner Tie Rods again.

HTH,
LarryB

Now you've hooked a guy who knows what he's talking about :wink: - he was the one who found it on my car!
Thanks Larry :smile:

 

[Jin1976]

Thanks Larry and not to forget all the other inputs. I will check at the dealer if they have those rings.

I hope this thread will help other fellow NSXer's in the future. :smile:

 

[Jin1976]

Okay car wandering issues solved now the car felt floaty at the front when I drove. I think the front shocks need to be replaced. Already made the order and now I think I need it very soon. I will ask the dealer if they got the invoice already or not.

 

[nsxexotic]

ok

 

[MLmotorsport]

ok

Great!

 

[Jin1976]

The thread was from almost 2 years ago guys. Since then I had new front shocks. The floaty feel is still there at very high speed and probably I will solve them by getting the Route-KS front bumper undercover.:biggrin:

 

[MLmotorsport]

The thread was from almost 2 years ago guys.

I know. That doesn't change the pertinance of its contents.
...then again neither does my smart-a one-word reply. :tongue: