Get some air.....

[nsxtcy85]

A local mechanic in my area has custom made something very similar to this for a few NSXs. I don't remember what he quoted me as a price. I think it was around $400. If you can get a dyno that shows improvements and a way to insulate the tube without it looking displeasing, then you will have quite a few customers. Myself included.

My question is, how will you duplicated the flow of wind around the car at speed on a dyno? I don't think a fan will be enough; and it's not like you have access to a wind tunnel/dyno (man wouldn't that be cool though).

I attend the Premier motorsports school in the U.S. We've got big fans :biggrin: I will get video of this as soon as its up.

 

[scorp965]

My question is, how will you duplicated the flow of wind around the car at speed on a dyno? I don't think a fan will be enough; and it's not like you have access to a wind tunnel/dyno (man wouldn't that be cool though).

The flow of wind at speed around the car is irrelevant, the car is not traveling fast enough to take advantage of a "ram air" phenomenon, and even if it were, it does not have a scoop or shaped duct to induce compression.

At nsx speeds, say around 150mph, assuming an ideal situation with a loss-less conversion of velocity to intake pressure, the potential benefit from ram air would be less than 1% - this is with an ideal system. If you were going 300mph, you could see a benefit from ram-air, but you would need a different intake configuration for your rocket-powered nsx.

I am not sure of the available dimensions within the fender, but it would perhaps be better to locate the cone element above the scoop, or in front of it, to avoid direct road-debris -> element flow, which will greatly increase the rate at which the air filter becomes dirty and requires servicing (which will require the removal of the wheel and fender liner). If the element were in front of the scoop, it would still be insulated from the engine bay, it would still have a huge reserve of cool air to draw from, and it would last perhaps twice as long between cleanings, which means less service on the owner's part, and greater performance between service (as the element is not dirty).

I spent some time researching various muffler's and their flow rates a few months ago, when I had a system fabricated for my '94; one of the items I found surprising was the flow bench testing of a straight 2.25" pipe, 14" in length, compared to various scorpion generic mufflers of a similar length. One of the mufflers they were flow testing consistently outperformed the straight pipe, which on the surface makes little sense, until the testers dissected the muffler, and discovered internally the muffler used a 3" pipe, and only the external flanges were 2.25". The longer a pipe, the more restrictive even a straight pipe can be, so by flaring out the mid section of this intake pipe, the car could see a significant benefit.

I look forward to the dyno results from this system. For the version 2 intake you mentioned you were working on, perhaps try incorporating these enhancements; a flared mid-section, a relocated filter element forward of the side scoop, and a ceramic coating to reduce heat soak.

OT: congrats on 1,000 posts

 

[nsxtcy85]

The flow of wind at speed around the car is irrelevant, the car is not traveling fast enough to take advantage of a "ram air" phenomenon, and even if it were, it does not have a scoop or shaped duct to induce compression.

At nsx speeds, say around 150mph, assuming an ideal situation with a loss-less conversion of velocity to intake pressure, the potential benefit from ram air would be less than 1% - this is with an ideal system. If you were going 300mph, you could see a benefit from ram-air, but you would need a different intake configuration for your rocket-powered nsx.

I am not sure of the available dimensions within the fender, but it would perhaps be better to locate the cone element above the scoop, or in front of it, to avoid direct road-debris -> element flow, which will greatly increase the rate at which the air filter becomes dirty and requires servicing (which will require the removal of the wheel and fender liner). If the element were in front of the scoop, it would still be insulated from the engine bay, it would still have a huge reserve of cool air to draw from, and it would last perhaps twice as long between cleanings, which means less service on the owner's part, and greater performance between service (as the element is not dirty).

I spent some time researching various muffler's and their flow rates a few months ago, when I had a system fabricated for my '94; one of the items I found surprising was the flow bench testing of a straight 2.25" pipe, 14" in length, compared to various scorpion generic mufflers of a similar length. One of the mufflers they were flow testing consistently outperformed the straight pipe, which on the surface makes little sense, until the testers dissected the muffler, and discovered internally the muffler used a 3" pipe, and only the external flanges were 2.25". The longer a pipe, the more restrictive even a straight pipe can be, so by flaring out the mid section of this intake pipe, the car could see a significant benefit.

I look forward to the dyno results from this system. For the version 2 intake you mentioned you were working on, perhaps try incorporating these enhancements; a flared mid-section, a relocated filter element forward of the side scoop, and a ceramic coating to reduce heat soak.

OT: congrats on 1,000 posts

The filter right now sits just below the top of the side duct. I think it will be very clear of debris. On the other hand the other AIS systems on the market use a full scoop and I imagine theres lots of sand and small debris in the bottoms of your intake boxes. I know there was mine with just a stock setup and uni foam filter.

Correct. I will have be working on a second version after I get this one set in stone and some people in the community enjoying this nice piece. I plan on trying many different styles. These will not be available for some time though.

Wow 1k posts awesome

 

[Zero-Cool]

That was a dick comment by zero-cool.

-----------------------------------------------------------
thanks....

 

[nsxtcy85]

Well Im bumping my post as I had the only buyer im assuming back out after lack of contact. I see that there is some scepticism. Which is fine. So now im going to offer a one time only price of $225 Shipped to the first buyer of this product with agreement that they will do a full write up after installation and driving experience. Possitive or negative. First to PM me will get this killer deal. I have two available right now. One in black shown and one in red that was ordered for the first buyer who backed out.

 

[pach]

Well Im bumping my post as I had the only buyer im assuming back out after lack of contact. I see that there is some scepticism. Which is fine. So now im going to offer a one time only price of $225 Shipped to the first buyer of this product with agreement that they will do a full write up after installation and driving experience. Possitive or negative. First to PM me will get this killer deal. I have two available right now. One in black shown and one in red that was ordered for the first buyer who backed out.

Your not exactly doing anyone any favors for $225. Its $50 dollars worth of aluminum tubing and a $50 air filter + 2 rubber couplers.. Why dont you offer before and after dynos ? You also might want to offer a hump hose section somewhere to allow a bit of flex since the engine is transversal.
Personally I hope you do make power out of this setup, It could be an affordable setup for those that dont want the factory air box.

 

[nsxtcy85]

Your not exactly doing anyone any favors for $225. Its $50 dollars worth of aluminum tubing and a $50 air filter + 2 rubber couplers.. Why dont you offer before and after dynos ? You also might want to offer a hump hose section somewhere to allow a bit of flex since the engine is transversal.
Personally I hope you do make power out of this setup, It could be an affordable setup for those that dont want the factory air box.

The coupler between the 90 degree angle and the straight piece is flexible enough. BTW your way under estimating the manufactorin cost. I will get dyno resuslts soon enough.

 

[mercedesx7]

Brilliant idea!!

questions, how are u gonna service the knn filter?? do u need to re-open the air-vent everytime u wanna service it?? would it be easier if the filter is in engine bay??

just my 2 cents, buddy.. anyway, i like your idea..

 

[02#154]

Your not exactly doing anyone any favors for $225. Its $50 dollars worth of aluminum tubing and a $50 air filter + 2 rubber couplers.. Why dont you offer before and after dynos ? You also might want to offer a hump hose section somewhere to allow a bit of flex since the engine is transversal.
Personally I hope you do make power out of this setup, It could be an affordable setup for those that dont want the factory air box.

The coupler between the 90 degree angle and the straight piece is flexible enough. BTW your way under estimating the manufactorin cost. I will get dyno resuslts soon enough.

I wasn't going to post anything to this thread but the issues I had are now current discussion.

I used to fab up custom stuff all the time for my previous cars and the product this thread is about looks very much like something I'd make in my garage; that is neither a compliment nor a dis, just statement of fact.

A 2' length of 6061 T6 pipe can be purchased online for about $60. An aluminum u-bend can be had for $34. Pre-cut silicone reducer and hump hoses are about $20 each. Straight silicone hoses are a little less. The type of band clamps shown are about $4 each. The AEM dryflow filter goes for about $50 online.

The prices above are very expensive, too. I doubt anyone here has ever really paid $3.75 for a band clamp, for example, which is the first price I found online. I could build this kit for about a little over $100 (but I'm not... this is nsxtcy85's gig)

You should charge whatever you think the market will bear. It's how every other part for the NSX is priced :tongue:

Just saying.....

J

 

[pach]

You should charge whatever you think the market will bear. It's how every other part for the NSX is priced :tongue:
Just saying.....
J

He should price it with the same markup as exhaust and raise it to $400. :biggrin:

 

[4AU4LIFE]

would it be easier if the filter is in engine bay??

The whole idea is to get the open air filter out of the engine bay so it won't get heat soaked with the engine bay air.
There are plenty of products out there that allow you to have a pipe coming directly off the t/b and do away with the factory airbox.

 

[nsxtcy85]

The whole idea is to get the open air filter out of the engine bay so it won't get heat soaked with the engine bay air.
There are plenty of products out there that allow you to have a pipe coming directly off the t/b and do away with the factory airbox.

Thank you for clearing that up for me.

Yes you will have to removed the rear drivers fender liner to update your filter but this might be something you need to do yearly and only if you drive it daily.

 

[KSXNSX]

I've always wondered why no one has made a system like this for the NSX--and why it wasn't designed this way from the factory.

The product looks great. Make sure the inside of the piping is clean. I've seen products where the make the outside polished, but the inside is utter junk--ironically, the inside is where cleanliness/smoothness/etc. matter the most in terms of intake piping.

How does it sound? I've heard some intakes sound as loud as exhausts--something that I really like.

Please post a video of the sound.

Also, would access to the filter involve removing the fender lining?

One major question: What is securing the intake? It doesn't seem like anything is holding it in place; it looks like it just rests on the rubber piece where the pipe exits the engine bay.

 

[Prospeed]

I'm surprised most people haven't seen this before for the NSX. I saw this about a year ago on dali's website.... It's called the PYTHON!! :biggrin: Looks like Mark never got a chance to complete it... but its on his website...

http://daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=2056#Moreinfo

All in all the AEM cold air intakes have done well on other cars... It would be interesting to see this baby vs. the OEM airbox with uni filter and air scoop. I do recommend having it ceramic coated or anything else then a shiny pipe because it will conduct a lot of heat from the engine as well as the sun.

 

[jmp]

This is a simple great solution to creating a clean-flowing truly cold air instake. Two of my questions have already been addressed -- (a) heat transfer in the engine bay through the aluminium tubing -- solution: wrap; & (b) access to replace filter -- requires opening liner.

My remaining questions are: How big of a deal is it to remove the quarter-panel liner? I use my hi-boost CTSC daily and currently have the oem airbox.

Last question: When do we get to see a comparative dyno sheet? I am ready to buy.

 

[mrbythatmuch]

So you are really concerned about heat soaking the air inlet box...

So your changing out a plastic box for and aluminum one Last I checked metal conducts heat better than plastic!

I guess if your sold on using that shape of a filter then placing outside of the engine bay is the way to go. This way it would be the same as the cold air intake the stock system enjoys. hummm same as stock? I got it! gee how about just change the filter in the existing air box to a less restrictive one! After which you have already confirmed it provides the same or better filtration than the stock air filter, I'd hate to destroy my engine for a hp gain I can't even measure on a dyno.

 

[KooLaid]

I'm surprised most people haven't seen this before for the NSX. I saw this about a year ago on dali's website.... It's called the PYTHON!! :biggrin: Looks like Mark never got a chance to complete it... but its on his website...

http://daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=2056#Moreinfo

All in all the AEM cold air intakes have done well on other cars... It would be interesting to see this baby vs. the OEM airbox with uni filter and air scoop. I do recommend having it ceramic coated or anything else then a shiny pipe because it will conduct a lot of heat from the engine as well as the sun.

Yeah, I've been waiting on that one too.

 

[nsxtcy85]

I've always wondered why no one has made a system like this for the NSX--and why it wasn't designed this way from the factory.

The product looks great. Make sure the inside of the piping is clean. I've seen products where the make the outside polished, but the inside is utter junk--ironically, the inside is where cleanliness/smoothness/etc. matter the most in terms of intake piping.

How does it sound? I've heard some intakes sound as loud as exhausts--something that I really like.

Please post a video of the sound.

Also, would access to the filter involve removing the fender lining?

One major question: What is securing the intake? It doesn't seem like anything is holding it in place; it looks like it just rests on the rubber piece where the pipe exits the engine bay.

The inside of the pipe is very smooth. I will post pics if you would like?

The intake is the loudest intake of an nsx that I have heard and ive heard them all. I will try to get a video soon.

The intake is held on very stong by itself but not show in the picture it mounts to the same bracket that the factory one does. Sorry these are early stage pictures.

 

[nsxtcy85]

This is a simple great solution to creating a clean-flowing truly cold air instake. Two of my questions have already been addressed -- (a) heat transfer in the engine bay through the aluminium tubing -- solution: wrap; & (b) access to replace filter -- requires opening liner.

My remaining questions are: How big of a deal is it to remove the quarter-panel liner? I use my hi-boost CTSC daily and currently have the oem airbox.

Last question: When do we get to see a comparative dyno sheet? I am ready to buy.

15 minutes. Really if you can change your own oil than you can do this.

The dyno sheet will be up as soon as someone as I find a donar car in the ohio area that has a downforce intake style scoop with uni foam setup.

 

[nsxtcy85]

So you are really concerned about heat soaking the air inlet box...

So your changing out a plastic box for and aluminum one Last I checked metal conducts heat better than plastic!

I guess if your sold on using that shape of a filter then placing outside of the engine bay is the way to go. This way it would be the same as the cold air intake the stock system enjoys. hummm same as stock? I got it! gee how about just change the filter in the existing air box to a less restrictive one! After which you have already confirmed it provides the same or better filtration than the stock air filter, I'd hate to destroy my engine for a hp gain I can't even measure on a dyno.

If you are not willing to risk your reliability for hp then why are you in an aftermaket section of this forum. Please don't go near the FI forums. Geez.

 

[mercedesx7]

Thank you for clearing that up for me.

Yes you will have to removed the rear drivers fender liner to update your filter but this might be something you need to do yearly and only if you drive it daily.

Oh, i see your point mate..

thank you..
:smile:

 

[Synthesis]

i'd take it a step further and install the cantrell/df scoop and just have a straight pipe / filter running right up to the hole in the bay. aww yea.... less metal, less restriction, bet you wouldn't have any differences in air temp either, with all that cool airflow from the scoop / vent blowing right on it

also, the shorter pipe would look better imo..... AND easier maintenance

i know this isn't really feasible for offering a cheap intake system tho

but,i agree, i'm surprised nobody has done something like this before.

 

[nsxtcy85]

i'd take it a step further and install the cantrell/df scoop and just have a straight pipe / filter running right up to the hole in the bay. aww yea.... less metal, less restriction, bet you wouldn't have any differences in air temp either, with all that cool airflow from the scoop / vent blowing right on it

also, the shorter pipe would look better imo..... AND easier maintenance

i know this isn't really feasible for offering a cheap intake system tho

but,i agree, i'm surprised nobody has done something like this before.

Not feasible. Expensive. And no gains over my system.

 

[baynsac]

i'd take it a step further and install the cantrell/df scoop and just have a straight pipe / filter running right up to the hole in the bay. aww yea.... less metal, less restriction, bet you wouldn't have any differences in air temp either, with all that cool airflow from the scoop / vent blowing right on it

also, the shorter pipe would look better imo..... AND easier maintenance

i know this isn't really feasible for offering a cheap intake system tho

but,i agree, i'm surprised nobody has done something like this before.

Not feasible. Expensive. And no gains over my system.

What if I allready have the AIS scoop with a uni-filter and stock box. and I add your cold air induction to it like said above ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.
Its wouldnt be more expensive as I allready have it, would you be able to do it? If so I will take one.

 

[nsxtcy85]

After 10 months of downtime. The nsx is on the road again. I decided to run it on the dyno today to give a real life test to my intake. The stock intake setup produced 233rwhp. I ran my intake 3 times. 247, 243, 245. :biggrin:So a minimum gain of 10whp and a max gain of 14whp. If I am correct NO other intake system can produce these numbers. Please correct me if I am wrong?

These look awesome and sound amazing. If anyone wants one. I have a red and black one as we speak.