Honcho's Long Road to Imola Type-S Zero

[nigel]

Process

I’ve been doing turbine helicopters and multi-eng aircraft and Honda’s, (Preludes and my 92 GPW NSX) for many years and it’s great to see your attention to detail that I have to, and would anyway do every day for my job. It’s enlightening to watch your well documented progress as well as BiglargeMcHuge’s work and inspires me to carry on. Thanks for your sharing and please keep it up !
Also, thanks for the answers when I have to bother you guys for “the right way to do shit” when I’m not sure and have to ask for help

Cheers
nigel

 

[Honcho]

so much mechanical pr0n in this thread. love it.

I’ve been doing turbine helicopters and multi-eng aircraft and Honda’s, (Preludes and my 92 GPW NSX) for many years and it’s great to see your attention to detail that I have to, and would anyway do every day for my job. It’s enlightening to watch your well documented progress as well as BiglargeMcHuge’s work and inspires me to carry on. Thanks for your sharing and please keep it up !
Also, thanks for the answers when I have to bother you guys for “the right way to do shit” when I’m not sure and have to ask for help

Cheers
nigel

Thanks guys. This is my favorite part of the build. It's so gratifying. I hope the engine turns over! lol

 

[docjohn]

Please record the first ignition for us!!!!

 

[Honcho]

Engine Refresh 52

Timing Belt Back Plates, Gaskets, etc.

Work is progressing faster. I did a final clean of the crank sensor potting material. It's not 100% removed, but the large deposits are gone. Now it's time to place the new gaskets. This is never done during the standard dealer service and it should be, as these rubber pieces protect the timing belt from contamination.

Rear cover cleaned and old grommets removed.

Removed the old gaskets.

The new gaskets for the rear back plate.

Gaskets placed. It's important to take your time and make sure they are fully seated in the grooves so that they don't pinch or fall out.

The new grommets.

Grommets in place.

One last look at the cylinder head.

Back plate in place and torqued to the spec. Very important not to over torque here, as the rubber squishes.

The old grommets. These were has hard as rocks and just crumbled upon removal. Probably the same in your NSX. These should be nice, squishy rubber.

 

[Honcho]

Engine Refresh 53

Timing Belt Back Plates, Gaskets, etc.

Same deal on the front cylinder head. Remove the old rubber bits, clean and install new ones.

The new gaskets.

New grommets in place. You can see some of the residual melted potting in the grooves. No worries- this is just cosmetic.

New gaskets in place.

Cylinder head with sensor in place.

Back plate installed and torqued.

Starting to look like a C30A again. Next, we install the cam gears and set # 1 TDC to prepare for the timing belt.

 

[Honcho]

Engine Refresh 54

Cam Gears

Just about bed time, but I had time to mark the cam gears. Kaz uses a white paint pen, which is ideal- but I don't have one so used the black Sharpie instead. It is ok for my purpose, since the engine is out and I can get a good, straight look at the timing marks on the back plates.

The front intake cam gear. Marked the 9-tooth line for tensioning. This is critical to get the proper tension on the belt. Note the line is not in the middle of the valley. Important.

The rear exhaust cam gear.

 

[Honcho]

Engine Refresh 55

Cam Gears, Drive Pulley

Managed to get the camshaft gears torqued down and mostly aligned to TDC.

So nice to see the shiny metal after the bad shape these gears were in upon removal. Lots of rust, oil and contamination.

The new crankshaft key. Not necessary to replace it, but this little piece of steel sees an enormous kinetic load. Considering the number of rotations over 137,000 miles of use, I decided for a few dollars it was worth it to reset the metal fatigue life.

Got the timing belt drive pulley mounted temporarily on the crankshaft to set the TDC.

Crankshaft set to approximate # 1 TDC and new tensioner test fitting.

I need to wait for my degree wheel to arrive before I can do the precision TDC setting, so I will pivot to finishing the rear brakes and re-assembling the blower unit.

 

[Honcho]

Engine Refresh 56

Timing Belt

The new timing belt components. This is the old washer- I have a new one in one of these huge Amayama boxes. Lots of little Honda bags. Where is it...

The new belt. I'm really disappointed in Honda's packaging. This exposes the belt to the elements and contamination. And, I don't like the way it is bent. I'll give it a quick wipe down before installing.

 

[Honcho]

Engine Refresh 57

Timing Lower Cover

A little sandpaper and Shin-Etsu silicone to address the rust on the used lower cover. Much better.

 

[docjohn]

Just wanted to remind the casual readers that this "master" craftsman is a practicing lawyer....

 

[Honcho]

Just wanted to remind the casual readers that this "master" craftsman is a practicing lawyer....

Everyone's got a hobby. Some people play golf. Some collect stamps. I do this.

 

[Honcho]

Brake Overhaul 09

Rear Calipers

Waiting for a few parts from Honda to finish the timing belt job, so pivoted to other tasks. I decided to complete the brake refresh process on the rear calipers- mostly to clear my workbench in preparation for the timing belt job and transmission refresh.

Very special thanks to Kaz, who was kind enough to remind me where all the different colored lubes go. I haven't done this service since 2012 and I'm a little fuzzy on the complicated Honda lubrication schedule.

After some difficulty, removed the piston and cleaned it. Applied a very thin coat of G-40M. You also put a small dab in the cup shown here. So interesting that the cam pin on this end will have G-40M on it and the other end of the pin will have Niglube.

Cleaned the cam and bearing cavity and applied the orange Niglube, along with the new seal. The Niglube should also go on the cam surface, inside the pin cavity, on the tip of the pin that contacts the cam, and inside the roller bearing.

All set.

Reinstalling the parking brake lever assembly. Just need the lock washer, nut and spring.

After cleaning the parts, install the new cup seal and apply the pink grease to it. Then, install the assembly and set the circlip using the special tools.

 

[Honcho]

Brake Overhaul 10

Rear Calipers

Here is where things slowed down. To reassemble the piston, you need to compress this rather strong spring and set this circlip. I managed to do this task effortlessly in 2012 using just basic hand tools. And now, for the life of me, I can't remember how I did it. I'm getting old...

So fast forward through a few hours of struggling with various methods, most involving sockets and a C-clamp. Others using screwdrivers and lots of cursing.

I reached a few conclusions that should help other owners who attempt this:

• The smallest socket that will fit around the center post is 14 mm
• The 14 mm is too wide to allow the circlip to be squeezed small enough to drop into the recess
• Don't bother trying to use a 17 or 19 mm to just smash it down and then try to squeeze the circlip while it is sitting under the socket
• You need something wide enough to fit over the center post but narrow enough to allow the circlip to squeeze closed

I searched the entire internet. Surely someone has done this on a NSX before? Even Kaz has nothing on his blog about this. Enter my savior- NSX Prime's own [MENTION=33247]MotorMouth93[/MENTION]. Turns out John faced this problem too in an obscure post in his build thread- his solution was to grind down a 14 mm socket. I made a tool out of some scrap steel tubing and a hacksaw.

Here's how you use it:

It worked the first time. After that, it was smooth sailing.

New bleeder and cap. Just a very light coat of KS-62M silicone grease on the threads.

 

[Honcho]

Engine Refresh 58

Timing Belt

Test fitting the very nice aluminum degree wheel from Jegs. You can see I fashioned a pointer from a clothes hanger and used the dipstick bolt to hold it to the back cover plate. The only thing now is to figure out a way to lock the crankshaft without the flywheel (I have a flywheel tooth lock). I need to torque the crank bolt enough so that I can turn the crankshaft counterclockwise without loosening the bolt to set the # 1 TDC. Suggestions are welcome.

 

[Big McLargeHuge]

Great updates as always, very satisfying and informative posts.

My tube of Hondabond HT exploded! Of course, this happened right as I was in the middle of the very time-constrained, high-pressure camshaft installation. Never easy.

Same happened with mine, the crimp on the end isn't strong enough...I had to use needle-nose vice grips on the end to hold the tube together.

Thank you again to Tyler @Big McLargeHuge for generously donating his used updated lower TB cover. I thought I bought the -305 water pump set (that contains a new cover) from ATR, but Christian just shipped me a water pump. I started to panic when I saw the cover was backordered as a separate piece, but Tyler came to the rescue. Once of the reasons I came back to the NSX is this community- great people. After a wash in the hot tank, the cover got soaked in 303 protectant overnight. I'll wipe this down tonight and address the surface rust on the dowels with some sandpaper. I purchased new alternator and water pump grommets.

Anything to say I have a piece of my car on your masterpiece :biggrin:

Test fitting the very nice aluminum degree wheel from Jegs. You can see I fashioned a pointer from a clothes hanger and used the dipstick bolt to hold it to the back cover plate. The only thing now is to figure out a way to lock the crankshaft without the flywheel (I have a flywheel tooth lock). I need to torque the crank bolt enough so that I can turn the crankshaft counterclockwise without loosening the bolt to set the # 1 TDC. Suggestions are welcome.

With the degree wheel installed I guess you can't install the crank pulley temporarily to hold it with the pulley hex tool? Maybe you could install some old M12 bolts without the flywheel and wedge a bar/wrench against them to hold the crank in place. You should have the old A/T drive plate bolts somewhere.


I'm sure this was covered elsewhere, but are you using the OEM ECU with the new cam setup or going aftermarket/chipped? How similar are the Comptechs to a Toda spec-A set? At some point in the future I want to perform this kind of service to my engine and need to choose between stock M/T or spicier cams.

 

[MotorMouth93]

Yeah that caliper piston snap ring is "fun". If I could do it again I'd have left it alone and just blasted out the piston with brake cleaner or tossed it in the ultrasonic cleaner.

Comptech cams have OEM profiles on the standard lobes but increased lift and duration on the VTEC lobes. Toda A is a bit spicier than Comptech with a bit more lift on the standard lobes and the VTEC lobes being 12mm on both the intake and exhaust compared to 11.43mm and 10.92mm for the Comptech VTEC lobes.

Right now, there are two manufacturers of NSX cams that I know of, Toda and ATR (@austrian type-R). Toda has the A, B, and C profiles while ATR has their "S" and "R" billet cams which are clones of the Comptech cams and the Toda C cams respectively. Toda cams will typically run $5000+ for a set by the time you have them shipped to the USA, ATR billets are around $3200 shipped.

Alternatives include Web Cams who will do a hardweld job (for $4000 lmao) or a lousy regrind ($1800 gets you 10.41mm and 9.65mm VTEC lobes which is a negligible increase over stock), or you can try to find a set of used unobtainium OG Comptech hardwelds like @Honcho.

I went with the ATR "S" cams for my build after discussions with Christian Mittendorfer who runs ATR, apparently the "R" cams along with Toda B and C usually need the idle to be raised which wasn't something I wanted to do on a street car.

 

[docjohn]

haha your welcome....

 

[Honcho]

With the degree wheel installed I guess you can't install the crank pulley temporarily to hold it with the pulley hex tool? Maybe you could install some old M12 bolts without the flywheel and wedge a bar/wrench against them to hold the crank in place. You should have the old A/T drive plate bolts somewhere.

Funny, I had both those ideas too. I may try the crank pulley idea, since it's not like 200 ft/lbs- just enough torque so I can spin the crankshaft. The flywheel side is obscured by the engine stand, so the crank pulley solution might be easier.

I'm sure this was covered elsewhere, but are you using the OEM ECU with the new cam setup or going aftermarket/chipped? How similar are the Comptechs to a Toda spec-A set? At some point in the future I want to perform this kind of service to my engine and need to choose between stock M/T or spicier cams.

Yes, I'm using the OEM ECU but tuned to add fuel in VTEC to account for the additional air from the 36mm intake valves and the CT cam lobes. I'm also narrowing the closed loop range of the maps to allow for more fueling (i.e., richer than 14.7) in the mid-level rpm/load ranges to add torque in those areas.

Yeah that caliper piston snap ring is "fun". If I could do it again I'd have left it alone and just blasted out the piston with brake cleaner or tossed it in the ultrasonic cleaner.

I came to the same conclusion- those parts really weren't dirty at all.

haha your welcome....

I can't wait to hear them in VTEC.

 

[docjohn]

It will be a sirens song...:biggrin:

 

[Albert86]

Thanks for posting so many of the part numbers.
Just checked my list to order for TB/WP and the crankshaft key was there.
Nice to have a flashlight in the dark.

 

[RYU]

[MENTION=18194]Honcho[/MENTION] is it weird that i'm jealous of your potential high vacuum? I'll be running a hot cam and ITBs and i'm fully expecting virtually zero vacuum readings from the MAP.

 

[Honcho]

Comptech cams have OEM profiles on the standard lobes but increased lift and duration on the VTEC lobes. Toda A is a bit spicier than Comptech with a bit more lift on the standard lobes and the VTEC lobes being 12mm on both the intake and exhaust compared to 11.43mm and 10.92mm for the Comptech VTEC lobes.

The Toda A is kind of what would happen if you put a big VTEC lobe on the AT cams. The AT cams have more lift on the intake primaries (non-VTEC) than the MT to improve low-speed torque. In fact, the owner of T3TEC did an experiment and added a Toda A VTEC profile lobe to the stock AT cams. He's currently running it in his 3.2L and reports excellent torque improvement during part-throttle driving (with HKS F-Con Vpro engine management and S2000 injectors). If I ever replace the unicorn-blood CT cams, I may send them my AT sticks for the same modification.

Thanks for posting so many of the part numbers.
Just checked my list to order for TB/WP and the crankshaft key was there.
Nice to have a flashlight in the dark.

Thanks. I try to take a second and snap a pic, since other owners may someday reference this thread. Other owners did the same in the past and it helped me greatly, so I'm trying to pay it forward.

[MENTION=18194]Honcho[/MENTION] is it weird that i'm jealous of your potential high vacuum? I'll be running a hot cam and ITBs and i'm fully expecting virtually zero vacuum readings from the MAP.

It's that racecar <----> street car spectrum I'm always struggling with. I am enamored with the idea of ITBs, but I also want the reliability of the Honda. But let's be real...I'll probably do the ITBs at some point. But that means Haltech and a billet oil pump gear too...

 

[docjohn]

wouldn't you be going billet gears anyway..and a baffled pan?

 

[Honcho]

wouldn't you be going billet gears anyway..and a baffled pan?

You mean like this one?



You only need the billet oil gear if you are going above the stock rev limit. I'm not, but with ITB I would go to at least 9,000, since with the cams you'll find more power up there.

 

[docjohn]

you must live stream first ignition....