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Honda lost $800 Million on the NSX

Jim

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From the June issue of Motor Trend (page 30):

"Here's why Honda won't do another NSX: The beancounters reckon the company has lost a staggering $800 million on the car over its lifespan. One reason the total is so high is that it includes the cost of the special factory constructed at Tochigi to build the all-aluminum supercar..."
 
Jim said:
From the June issue of Motor Trend (page 30):

"Here's why Honda won't do another NSX: The beancounters reckon the company has lost a staggering $800 million on the car over its lifespan. One reason the total is so high is that it includes the cost of the special factory constructed at Tochigi to build the all-aluminum supercar..."


Well....if they already built the factory, then they can count that as money saved when they build the HSC. ;) :D
 
Same car 14 years no change--I would expect a loss.
I still love it- only cost me about 25k. Thanks Honda.
-j-
 
If they did have a loss, they can't blame it on the car. The blame lies with their neglect of the car.
 
Total BS. Esp. when you consider that the factory was also used to build the S2000 as well as the insight. Not to mention the R&D that went into the NSX (think VTEC) eventually trickled down into other Honda products (even motorcycles now).
 
Da Hapa said:
Total BS. Esp. when you consider that the factory was also used to build the S2000 as well as the insight. Not to mention the R&D that went into the NSX (think VTEC) eventually trickled down into other Honda products (even motorcycles now).

I maybe wrong but I belive it was only recently that they moved the production of the Nsx over to the factory where they assemble the S2000 prior to that they had there own facility.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40235&highlight=nsx+factory+moved
 
Da Hapa said:
Total BS. Esp. when you consider that the factory was also used to build the S2000 as well as the insight. Not to mention the R&D that went into the NSX (think VTEC) eventually trickled down into other Honda products (even motorcycles now).

VTEC started in the race program. The first use of VTEC on a production car was in the 1988 CRX SiR. The NSX was the first US car with VTEC, but it was already 3 years old before it made it to the NSX.
 
Da Hapa said:
Total BS. Esp. when you consider that the factory was also used to build the S2000 as well as the insight. Not to mention the R&D that went into the NSX (think VTEC) eventually trickled down into other Honda products (even motorcycles now).

Absolutely right!!! Not to mention the sales the NSX as a halo car for Honda produced. Also, why would you put the figure for building a factory in as a loss tied to the car?? I mean, Honda now has an asset worth x million dollars in a factory it could use anyway it wants to. So, now if they start building something else there, does that mean before the first car comes out of that facility, that vehicle has already made Honda x million dollars because they didn't have to build a new factory??? Or, hypothetically, if they could sell the factory for $900 million, does that mean the NSX made Honda $100 million??? That is a ridiculous statement for this magazine to have printed. The NSX didn't lose Honda anything. If Honda wants to cry about it, it's their own damn fault for not keeping the car fresh. Let's see them put a 1991 Accord on the market today and see how they would sell. Now that would be the end of the world, to not have a redesigned Accord every 4 years!!!! Sports car purchasers want the latest and greatest. Bring on the HSC, but bring it on with the idea that it will continually be polished and refined to resemble the pinnacle of automobilia that is Honda!!!
 
Acura NsX Pilot said:
I maybe wrong but I belive it was only recently that they moved the production of the Nsx over to the factory where they assemble the S2000 prior to that they had there own facility.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40235&highlight=nsx+factory+moved

The S2000 has always been built alongside it's big brother, the NSX. In fact, many of the same engineering and R&D folks that were handpicked for the NSX were again handpicked for the S2000.

The S2KCA took a pretty cool factory tour some years ago and they took some great photo's of big brother and little brother being built side by side.

I don't know about the Insight but I believe that has also always been built in Takanezawa (sp?).
 
Acura NsX Pilot said:
I maybe wrong but I belive it was only recently that they moved the production of the Nsx over to the factory where they assemble the S2000 prior to that they had there own facility.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40235&highlight=nsx+factory+moved

I believe you may be mistaken. The NSX, S2000 and Insight were all built at the Tochigi factory until recently when the move referenced above took place. I may be wrong as well though.
 
Dave Hardy said:
VTEC started in the race program. The first use of VTEC on a production car was in the 1988 CRX SiR. The NSX was the first US car with VTEC, but it was already 3 years old before it made it to the NSX.

Dave is correct. I had forgotten about the Japanese market uses of VTEC which predate the NSX.
 
Jim said:
From the June issue of Motor Trend (page 30):

"Here's why Honda won't do another NSX: The beancounters reckon the company has lost a staggering $800 million on the car over its lifespan. One reason the total is so high is that it includes the cost of the special factory constructed at Tochigi to build the all-aluminum supercar..."

I don't think they are getting it because 800 million sounds like a bargain to me- they need to understand that the big return on the investment here won't ever be found on a spread sheet or in their investors wallets- the real payoff here is our NSX community smiles over the last 14 years.. you know...you just can't put a price on that.. :biggrin:
 
I agree...BS.. How are they coming up w/ those numbers? Are they saying they could have sold 800 mil if it was considered their top selling model?
 
SCS2k said:
I believe you may be mistaken. The NSX, S2000 and Insight were all built at the Tochigi factory until recently when the move referenced above took place. I may be wrong as well though.

I could not find the thread where I read that but do remember reading somewhere that the nsx production was going to be moved to where they were making the S2000.
 
NSX was never meant for profit anyways...Honda built NSX to show the world what they can make.
 
Ok... so they lost $800,000,000... that means, that the owners gained $800,000,000 (I mean, if they didn't build, and we didn't buy, there would have been a net zero). So divide that among say 14,000 built - and each car is worth about $57,000 more than before! Grats everyone, don't spend it all in one place!
 
It is common sense at least for the Honda dealers and Honda Germany in Offenbach here that the mother company lost some money with every NSX it sold (even technicians from other brands say after inspecting the car: Hey, it's a bargain for that quality and art of engineering!) - but it is of course much less than what was mentioned here.

You can't blame one model for all the costs for a plant (1st in Tochigi, now in Suzuka) when 2 other models where also built there - not from the beginning of the NSX but over the whole life span - it's a simple economic rule.
 
That does even pass the smell test. I don't doubt they didn't turn the profit they anticipated and may have lost some money, but the offset is how much publicity and sales did the NSX generatre for the rest of their product line?

I hope they make the next NSX - this is the best car I have ever owned and I have had a variety of very nice cars.
 
Guys. Remember the "chicken and the egg" ? (Which DID come first BTW ? :biggrin: )

Well, the same debate rages about what group first came up with "spin". Was it accountants, politicians, or lawyers ??? :biggrin:

Declaring an 800 million loss makes all of us feel" sorry" for Honda, and, BTW, saves them a bunch of money on their taxes !!! And don't forget about those "foggy" R&D expenses to develop a car in the first place. All of THOSE expenses are counted against future sales/profits.

Yeah, Baby ! Accountants can "spin" with the best of them !!! :wink:
 
Acura NsX Pilot said:
I could not find the thread where I read that but do remember reading somewhere that the nsx production was going to be moved to where they were making the S2000.

Unfortunately, you can't trust everything you read. Trust me, there are photo's on S2Ki (way back) and certainly on S2KCA from 2000 or 2001 showing the cars built alongside one another from day one.
 
The amount seems within reason to me.

The NSX was a sales failure. Sure, the plant allowed Honda to sell the very successful S2000 and was a technology incubator. But, ultimately, you have to sell cars to get return on that investment.

And, Honda simply didn't do that. Honda could have gotten the VTEC into the freakin Pilot and whatnot without the NSX program or Tochigi.

The NSX lost money, period. And, Honda will not produce another supercar. The reason why? Because the market has already proven that they will not make a Honda car in Porsche's price space a sales success no matter what its attributes are.

At release, the NSX was dramatically superior to the 911 and 348. Even after the redesigns and releases of newer 911s and the 355, the 3.2 NSX remained a superior car. But, it never sold like it.

Manufacturers must recognize their pricing niche. Acura cannot command the same price as Lexus, who in turn cannot compete in BMW's space or MB's. And, BMW, in the premium big car space, simply cannot command the same sales of the 7 vs. the S-class at the same price. BMW is just not perceived as at peer prestige as Mercedes. And, when Lexus crept its ES up in $ to where good 3-series cars were, they learned that they are just not perceived as the same prestige as BMW.

The "just a Honda" rap hamstrung the NSX throughout its lifespan as if "just a Honda" is pejorative. Honda was utterly DOMINATING Formula 1 and every other racing genre they entered, yet the NA market would not afford them premium respect. But, that's just the way it is.

The Z8 is too expensive for a Bimmer. So, people don't buy it. At $125-140k, they buy Ferraris. BMW cannot compete in that price space. Even Porsche really cannot. Honda could sell an "ultrasupercar," for $500,000, like the Enzo or Carrera GT, but they'd be selling like 10, just like everyone else who makes cars at that price point. But, car sales for profit are a volume game and every manufacturer has their niche. Porsche owns the sports car space from 65k up to around 120k. Beyond that, it's Ferrari. Jags can hang with Benzs in the midsize segment, and so can BMW, but in the large saloon class from 70k-150, it's MB and nobody else. Beyond that, it's Rolls and Bentley. And, it's incredibly difficult for mfrs to break out of these pigeonholes, thus the very existence of Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, and even Maybach.
 
NSX-GUY said:
Guys. Remember the "chicken and the egg" ? (Which DID come first BTW ? :biggrin: )

Well, the same debate rages about what group first came up with "spin". Was it accountants, politicians, or lawyers ??? :biggrin:

Declaring an 800 million loss makes all of us feel" sorry" for Honda, and, BTW, saves them a bunch of money on their taxes !!! And don't forget about those "foggy" R&D expenses to develop a car in the first place. All of THOSE expenses are counted against future sales/profits.

Yeah, Baby ! Accountants can "spin" with the best of them !!! :wink:

agree 100% - this was a very self-serving pronouncement for honda.

imho, honda gained much more than they lost with the nsx... and the game's long from being over.

(nsxguy, sorry - don't have a position on your egg/chicken ? :)
 
queenlives said:
agree 100% - this was a very self-serving pronouncement for honda.

imho, honda gained much more than they lost with the nsx... and the game's long from being over.

(nsxguy, sorry - don't have a position on your egg/chicken ? :)

Well, of course the chicken came first, else where would the egg have come from ???

(OTOH, if there was no egg,,,,,, errrrrrrrrr,,,,,, never mind ! :eek: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: )
 
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