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How is the new NSX supposed to compete with this???

Chris Harris gives the F12 a huge wrap imagine the next NSX getting the same ... but unfortunately I don't think so.

Amazing car amazing driving.

 
A little off topic but...

I'm confused I thought Chris wasn't allowed to test Ferrari's anymore unless he purchased one from the used market because he had bad mouthed Ferrari a while back. It seems like something happened and they are now letting him test their cars again.
 
Ted was asked intelligent respectful questions.
Included were questions about the engine configuration, bore stroke, output per liter etc.
Some he answered, some he did not, as we all expected.
Ted also joined us the next day for the Porsche museum tour and had some further comments on marketing.

Ted did not say there would be 1000 NSX's built per year.
He said he thought selling 1000 a year in North America was a reasonable target

Who is RolledaNSX and was he at NSXPO?
 
He posts on vtec.net. He has supposed inside information on Honda stuff. I don't know if he was at NSXPO. He does seem to have disdain for primers as a few of us don't find his info credible. He's currently telling ppl there the NSX will have 550-600hp turbocharged. I just don't see that happening. We've been hearing the turbo or V8 turbo for years as well and all were false. There's no reason to not have disclosed it if they were going to turbo it. Even after the video release at the track he said they edited out the turbo sound. Then that Mid-ohio car didn't have the real power train even though Acura confirmed it did.
 
The reality of a V6-TT is totally reasonable as it'd give the desired output in terms of torque/hp (that is a requisited nowadays for sportscars) and the boost-lag could be countered by the electric-assist in the drive-train.

I'm still anticipating an NA 3.XL V6, but I wouldn't be shocked nor surprised by a power-plant that is coupled to a turbo. It somewhat seems to be the future in this niche.

Anecdotal speakin', the aforementioned has served McLaren very well as of late. Very, very well. The 12C is very efficient w/ excellent economy (relatively speaking, to both) and the boost level optimization has allowed it to have no equal in terms of performance metrics. And the forthcoming P1 will be in a strata (or two) ahead of its contemporaries by employing a boosted powertrain w/ electric drivetrain assist.

Unless the forthcoming NSX Concept is an NA V6 w/ a 9k+ redline or the HSV-derived V10, I would not mind at all whatsoever a V6-TT... :D
 
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My guess is a new 3.5-3.7 L short stroke NA V6 capable of 9 K rpm and 125-130 hp per liter.
 
JD Cross said:
My guess is a new 3.5-3.7 L short stroke NA V6 capable of 9 K rpm and 125-130 hp per liter.
Click to expand...

As am I. Turbo says we're no longer able to use ingenuity to get past emissions and mpg's so we're just gonna turbo and call it a day.
 
JD Cross said:
My guess is a new 3.5-3.7 L short stroke NA V6 capable of 9 K rpm and 125-130 hp per liter.
Click to expand...

Love this vision. This is what I would have told Klaus. Coincidentally Porsche seems to be fond of it too. Their 2014 GT3 is just that. Apparently it has these "finger followers" that help it get to 9K rpm but does it even have anything that can touch VTEC - varying the timing and lift on both the intake and exhaust? And can someone confirm that it is a short stroke flat 6?

If the NSX needs finger followers too then so be it. I guess I can't believe that Honda is just out of ideas.

I would like to see a VTEC system that uses a cone-shaped cam against cone-shaped rollers to vary the timing and lift seamlessly across the entire RPM range. Something new like this would be Honda being Honda.
 
Valkyrie Pilot said:
Love this vision. This is what I would have told Klaus. Coincidentally Porsche seems to be fond of it too. Their 2014 GT3 is just that. Apparently it has these "finger followers" that help it get to 9K rpm but does it even have anything that can touch VTEC - varying the timing and lift on both the intake and exhaust? And can someone confirm that it is a short stroke flat 6?

If the NSX needs finger followers too then so be it. I guess I can't believe that Honda is just out of ideas.

I would like to see a VTEC system that uses a cone-shaped cam against cone-shaped rollers to vary the timing and lift seamlessly across the entire RPM range. Something new like this would be Honda being Honda.
Click to expand...

We asked Ted Klaus about the engine configuration at NSXPO.
He said stay tuned.

The main engine design feature to hope for is the short stroke configuration like the Porsche 3.8 flat 6.
Honda currently doesn't have a short stroke V6 block so I'm hoping we'll get a new design.
They know how to build high revving engines so we'd have to assume the latest in GDI and variable valve and timing control would be in there.
 
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No doubt they can build high revving engines but can they do it for the masses in a 200,000 to 300,000 mile engine?

Without new breakthroughs in technology, perhaps they will conclude what I suspect McLaren may have have already determined - namely that the power, efficiency and longevity of a turbo-charged engine is difficult to match with NA.
 
JD Cross said:
We asked Ted Klaus about the engine configuration at NSXPO.
He said stay tuned.
Click to expand...

Maybe they are still trying to figure that out in the land of rising sun.

Then again, I doubly they'll want that information leaked to other makers. If they can do 500hp and keep it around 3200 lbs, I think we'll have a winner... for a year or two until the next baby Ferrari hits the showroom.

I certainly hope they sell more than 1000 cars a month world wide… I think the original NSX sold 9000 the first 12 months.
 
Valkyrie Pilot said:
No doubt they can build high revving engines but can they do it for the masses in a 200,000 to 300,000 mile engine?

Without new breakthroughs in technology, perhaps they will conclude what I suspect McLaren may have have already determined - namely that the power, efficiency and longevity of a turbo-charged engine is difficult to match with NA.
Click to expand...

Do you own an NSX?
If you do then you already own a high revving engine built for the masses that will last for 200-300 k miles.
Not sure what your point is here.

As far as technology goes short stroke GDI engines today make 125-130 hp/liter.
If that's not enough to meet Honda's total NSX power goal then I guess it'll be bigger batteries, bigger electric motors, or a forced induction gas engine.

Ted Klaus said Honda can build any type of engine needed from a 4 to a V12 but he suggested the Honda corporate philosophy seems to be based on V6 power so that's what the NSX will have.
 
BD said:
Maybe they are still trying to figure that out in the land of rising sun.

Then again, I doubly they'll want that information leaked to other makers. If they can do 500hp and keep it around 3200 lbs, I think we'll have a winner... for a year or two until the next baby Ferrari hits the showroom.

I certainly hope they sell more than 1000 cars a month world wide… I think the original NSX sold 9000 the first 12 months.
Click to expand...

That's actually 25 more than the new GT3 and it's damn fast. We actually have cars now that are as faster or faster than the old 500hp cars. People get hung up on HP for bragging rights. It's always been easier to do bigger numbers large engine/turbo. New regulations have forced them to look at other parts of the equation and be much more efficient. The instant tq of the new electric motors is going to be a game changer I believe but I could be wrong.
 
JD Cross said:
Do you own an NSX?
If you do then you already own a high revving engine built for the masses that will last for 200-300 k miles.
Not sure what your point is here.
Click to expand...

Funny you should ask. Just picked one up. I will be sharing the story soon. And you are right about it combining power, efficiency and longevity but it does not have quite the power and efficiency of Porsche's new 3.8 in the GT3? No it does not. So to clarify my point, my question is, can Honda raise the bar to that next level (9000 RPM redline, 125 hp/ltr) and maintain their track record of reliability? Or is the technology a limiting factor? Will the GT3 be able to hit 200-300k miles with out a major overhaul? I don't know but this may be more a question of the limit of technology than a question of assembly quality or workmanship.
 
Valkyrie Pilot said:
Funny you should ask. Just picked one up. I will be sharing the story soon. And you are right about it combining power, efficiency and longevity but it does not have quite the power and efficiency of Porsche's new 3.8 in the GT3? No it does not. So to clarify my point, my question is, can Honda raise the bar to that next level (9000 RPM redline, 125 hp/ltr) and maintain their track record of reliability? Or is the technology a limiting factor? Will the GT3 be able to hit 200-300k miles with out a major overhaul? I don't know but this may be more a question of the limit of technology than a question of assembly quality or workmanship.
Click to expand...

My point was that Honda built the C30 over twenty years ago using the best technology of the day. Does it have the power of today's engines? Of course not.
Why compare a 20 year old Honda design with today's Porsche?

Is Honda capable of building an engine as powerful as the 3.8 GT3 engine?
Of course they are. And so is every other engine manufacturer.

I think we tend to underestimate the boost in power that GDI has given to today's engines.
The higher efficiency and power hasn't meant the engines are built closer to the edge.
I believe if Honda chooses to build an all new V6 for the NSX then it will be as good as anyone else's

Somewhere in Japan the NSX engine is on a dyno being tested for the umpteenth time.
And perhaps in the next room the turbo V6 F1 engine is also on a dyno.
 
The Porsche 991 911 Carrera GT3 doesn't have the usability (read: civility) for what Honda/Acura presumably want from their 2nd gen exotic/"super" sportscar, namely NSX Concept. The McLaren 12C, Audi R8, and Ferrari 458 are far more refined, comfortable, and usable than the GT3. With that said, the latest-greatest GT3 is an absolute marvel of a trackday specimen that can be enjoyed on weekends as well.

Generally speaking, what do reasonably-spec'd/well-equipped R8s sticker at (both the V8 & R8 varieties)? The 911 Carrera 4S offerings start at ~$105k+ (base, pre-TTL), and a modest-spec'd example will be ~$130k+ (in typical Porsche options/packages ala'carte pricing).

Truth-be-told, I would want (and expect) the forthcoming NSX Concept to be above & beyond the R8 (V8) & 911 C4S in terms of not just visceral feel & experience, but also performance/potential.
 
Beating C4S and R8 V8 they'll do at less cost. That's what the Japanese usually do.
 
BD said:
I certainly hope they sell more than 1000 cars a month world wide… I think the original NSX sold 9000 the first 12 months.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you could reread my post
Ted Klaus said he thought a goal of 1000 NSX's per year in North America was a reasonable target.
He didn't say 1000 cars per month nor did he say anything about their world wide sales goals
 
for a car that is still (almost mass) produced, the resale value on the 911s is amongst the stronger compared to other similarly priced cars that are still in production (ie. compare 6-8 year old 911s to amg couples that would have had the same brand new cost).

but yes the options is where it gets out of hand, some crazy ones are (approx canadian pricing below, here the base 911 starts at 100 grand)
- full leather dash ~5 grand
- full power + adaptive sport seats ~4 grand
- nav ~ 3 grand
- bose - 2 grand
- oem sport exaust ~ 3 grand
- short shifter ~ 1000$
- sport chronos (1200)

then you have all the million small things like porsche crests on head rests, rear wiper, heated seats, aluminum shifter, any color outside of the basic 5 (red white yellow black silver), all range between 500 to roughly a thousand.

lets not forget the the x51 oem powerkit thats like another 20 grand, which is i/h/e + a few other related items for another 30 hp of output.

add$ up like mad.... with that said those that drive the BRAND NEW cars, normally lease them from what ive seen, and the cars are purchased when they are in the more reasonable cost after a few years of depreciation.

WingZ said:
Boy new 911 praises faded fast and $50k in options LOL the Europeans are crazy. This will definitely be an easy win for Honda against the C4S

http://www.caranddriver.com/compari...vs-2014-porsche-911-carrera-s-comparison-test
Click to expand...
 
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Agreed so that would put a 911CS at $180k and I can't see would pick it over a GT3 when apparently those can be had for $140k ( C/D tested one with a price of $142k). That 2.1 sec ass kicking at the track and the model is only a year old is really telling. Guess a GT3 would be needed to match/exceed a standard Corvette at the track. I fully expect the the next M3 to exceed the 991S as well like it did last time. Competition is fierce.
 
New McLaren

[video]http://www.driving.co.uk/news/mclaren/news-mclaren-650s-mp4-12c-replacement-photos-and-video-walkaround/18312#ooid=ZlMjBvazpq9t5JHZI_ZlYVnip9tpdrz5[/video]

- - - Updated - - -

McLaren 650S.jpg
 
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