How should Honda build the next NSX?

[nsxtasy]

Look at the new Porsche 911 GT3. 3.6 L flat six. 375 HP, 284 lb of torque. 8200 RPM redline. 0-60 mph in 4 secs, quarter mile in 12.3 secs @118 mph. 3050 lb curb weight. Now just imagine what Honda could do with a 3.6 L six for the NSX ???

I think you are confusing the GT2 (456 hp, $180K) with the GT3 (375 hp, $100K). The GT2 does 0-60 in 4 seconds (actually, as quick as 3.8) and the 1/4 mile in 12.1 (per Motor Trend), whereas the GT3 is expected to do 0-60 around 4.3 or so and the 1/4 mile in the upper 12's. No magazine tests on the US-spec GT3 have been published yet.

 

[LUV2REV]

Check out Car and Driver June 2003. page's 75-76

 

[AndyH]

whoever voted on "Cheaper: 300ps/3300lbs/65k$ - front engine, no alu or special materials" should be hang....

 

[NUK3M]

Re: Evolution, not Revolution

WHOA! i really like that pic - where did it come from?

 

[CRX B16B VTEC]

Imagine Honda come up with something we really want... new engine etc... but with ALTEZZA tail lights!! That would be sad.

 

[MAJOR STONER]

Picture is from US Road & Track magazine in August 2000, I believe.

 

[effer]

Picture is from US Road & Track magazine in August 2000, I believe.

Right on Major Stoner! Page 60 and also page 8 ( R&T index page ).

I too prefer that modernized NSX version, well over the one illustrated also in Road & Track of September 2001.



To answer Jin 1976

"Remember what the NSX stands for; New Sportscar eXperimental."

"Just think, if NSX is to be designed with a lot of power, surely one day there will be other cars that is better."

Maybe it is too obvious for us NSXers, but when we ask for more power we all implicitly means with the same balance and the same finesse in handling. Obviously it has to be an NSX!!!

Remember that the NSX deserves very much its name because never before a midengine car was as performant while as civilized, everyday usable, reliable, luxurious, and efficient...

As today, exception made of the Mc Laren F1 ( and maybe the 996 TT and 360 Modena : but this is debatable I believe... oups!maybe also the Saleen S7 ???), there is no car over 400 hp that could deserve the NSX label if you know what I mean.

When Honda will show a 400 or more hp NSX be sure that it will again set standards in handling for its category...

 

[gheba_nsx]

Ok, after two weeks and about 900 views we got 78 votes. Not a lot but IMO quite representative anyway.

This is the result as of today:

Evolution: 350ps/3000lbs/85k$ - mid engine, maybe alu or special materials -- 39.74%
Wheapon!: +450ps/sub 3000lbs/130+k$ mid engine, exotic materials or alu -- 37.18%
WOW: 400ps/3000lbs/110k$ - mid engine, exotic materials or alu -- 21.79%
Cheaper: 300ps/3300lbs/65k$ - front engine, no alu or special materials -- 1.28%


Only one person voted for the cheaper "NSX". Probably the wisest car to build for Honda... competing against the Vettes with a more stylish (the NSX is a lot nicer! ) and reliable car. Afterall this is 20ps more than what we have now and for less money too...

The "Modena performer" got several votes and many complaints. 400 ps are not enough for many people...
And 110k is too expensive. We want also Santa and some chocoloate with it, thanks.

Then a lot of people voted the "dream" NSX. The one we will probably never get... a suicide in sales term for Honda IMHO. This is what most of us would like Honda to produce, but not to buy it ... wait... wait... hopefully in 10 years it will cost below 50k$ and we will be able to jump on it. Will we then complain that the 250k$ expensive 2012 BMW M5 has 750ps and smoke our NSX in a straight line?

I am happy that the evolution car possibilty still got more votes than the other three possibilities. That would mean a lot IMO: evolution and not revolution is the key to produce longterm success, like the 911 did. It would also be nice getting some improvement every two-three years. Enlaring the base of customers and creayting a kind of "heritage".

 

[POWERED by HONDA]

I voted for "Weapon!"

I think people want more than 400 hp because we are afraid Honda will not replace the car for 12-15 years after it's introduction... just like the current generation. We need something that will be competitive for that many years.

 

[gheba_nsx]

That is one of my point: why create an overkiller car now when you can set the price lower, offer less but still top performance (350-400ps is more than adequate now) and upgrade the car every 2-3 years, just like Porsche does. The price will be rounded up accordingly.

Something like 30ps and 5k every three year.

People will not have to jump on a 120-150k Honda, from scratch. They will gradually build trust, magazine coverage, customer base, ... and in 10-50-20 years "NSX" will be on par with the top players.

Going now for a "Wheapon" and not upgrading it anymore would IMO be repeating the marketing error that was done in 1991 . As somebody wrote yesterday in another thread, magazines seek new stuff. You have to offer this in order to get coverage (=interest, possible customers).

 

[POWERED by HONDA]

Point taken. And I agree 100%. But will Honda actually do that? I sure HOPE SO!!!

 

[jmartin]

Craftsmanship and Principle

Well, this is my first post to this site, so don't throw tomatoes at me too quick..

I think Acura needs to stand behind their motto when recreating the NSX. If I can look at a 12 year old platform and appreciate its build quality, design, functionality and appeal, I would hope they wouldn't stray from that accomplishment. The new car doesn't need 500 hp. Yes it needs attractive performance numbers, but HOW it is achieved is what I'd look at. There's a reason NSX owners didn't buy a Corvette..

I think the next car should have a N/A, flexible 3-4 liter V8 with I-VTEC technology. If this car can compete with Porsche's GT3, stay under 100K, AND carry a timeless design with Honda value, I doubt they'll have any problems selling cars to well-heeled import purists.

 

[effer]

The conclusion I come to is that the next NSX needs to be, at a minimum:

400hp/3000lbs/$85k

Let see if I follow YOUR reasoning :

400,01hp/6000lbs/$300k would be better


but I understand that :

"Abusus non tollit usum"

I would say that my conclusion is that the next NSX needs to be, at a maximum: 3,0 kg per hp / $85k.

 

[CDub]

I picked "WOW" if I can only pick one. What I'd really like to see is 2 versions.
1> 350hp, 2900lb @$85k
2> 450hp, 3000lb @$100k

For $15k, customers have the option to get an upgraded motor (Turbo, SC, electic...) with light weigh components. Similar to Porsche 911 approach with a N/A and Turbo version. The N/A offers the volume for the bean counters, but owners can still brag about the Turbo version. So the image of the 911s is that they offer world class performance but you can own a lesser one even if you are not swimming in money.

Either way, I hope that the torque will be in the high 300's.

 

[White92]

So if Acura/Honda built a new NSX with twice the performance, but for the same price as the current NSX, what would happen to the market for the current NSX's? If someone just bought an '03 NSX, for example, what would happen if you tried to sell it for the new model? I don't see why anyone would buy a one year old NSX with 290 hp, when they could have a brand new one with twice the performance, for basically the same price or a little more? I'm kind of sitting on the fence on this issue, but curious to see what you all think about it. Anyone?

 

[MarkB]

...I don't see why anyone would buy a one year old NSX with 290 hp, when they could have a brand new one with twice the performance, for basically the same price or a little more?...

Such are the vagaries of the automotive world. Besides, if you bought the car because you like it, what does the resale value have to do with it. If you bought it for speculation, then the volitility of the auto market might bite you.

 

[CokerRat]

I don't see why anyone would buy a one year old NSX with 290 hp, when they could have a brand new one with twice the performance,

Surely you're not suggesting that nobody should attempt dramatic improvements in their product line for fear of offending recent purchasers? Typically sales in the year leading up to a publicized revamp are dismal. Some manufacturers have gone as far as to not produce a car for that model year. My guess is it would take substantial time to retool a factory to produce a vastly different car and you'd have to skip the production run for a few months minimum.

 

[Jimbo]

I can only assume that anyone postulating a hybrid NSX (i.e. electric motor assist) has never drove such a car.

This technology, while suitable for economy cars and maybe some street performance cars (i.e. occasional 0-60 blast) just wouldn't work for a such a track ready car as the NSX.

You might get two laps around a road course before the batteries would deplete and wind up being dead weight. You need steady speed driving to recharge the batteries.

And yes, while you do plenty of hard braking on the track, there's no available technology to effectively channel all of that energy back into the batteries so quickly. It will be lost as heat.

Honda (and others) will certainly expand hybrid technologies. They might even put it into a sporty street car or truck/SUV. Putting it into the NSX would invalidate the purpose of the NSX.

I think Honda's certainly capable of getting close to 400 HP out of a 3.5-4.0 L V6. Perhaps with a turbo or supercharger. Couple that with the same basic design and a modest restyle and I think you have a reasonable path forward.

-Jim

 

[White92]

Oh I'm not suggesting anything. I'm just curious as to what everyone else thinks. I couldn't care either way. Me personally? I would seriously consider buying probably whatever they put out as the "new" NSX. Obviously I didn't buy my NSX thinking it was some Accord and I could make a killing with the resale value. It's not that type of car. I've always known that.

 

[Black Knight]

nice poll, gheba....

i would most certainly want the $130k 450ps top of the food chain NSX.....

i want to see NSX progress in power, reputation, technology, etc...and keep it's rarity. i certainly don't want all my neighbors to have one in their garage....but that's me.

remember, the first NSX was designed after the ferrari 348....

450ps should be no problem against the 360......

the NSX should continue its supercar legacy and step up a notch to compete against gallardo, GT2, 911 turbo, 360, etc.....

for $130k, it's gonna blow all these cars away......

 

[mynsx77]

When I read Japanese megazine, it said V-10 600hp+ I will put the source later. Honda already made this engine in 2004

 

[|Adeel]

When I read Japanese megazine, it said V-10 600hp+ I will put the source later. Honda already made this engine in 2004

Can't wait to hear another V10 rumour But 600 hp is sick... Carrera GT class

 

[Hugh]

Talk about a thread rising from the dead! Shouldn't this be listed in the Second Generation NSX/HSC Discussion forum? Maybe it didn't exist when this thread was created.

 

[NetViper]

This thread is two years old and the playing field has changed IMO. 350 HP would be laughed at today.

 

[|Adeel]

This thread is two years old and the playing field has changed IMO. 350 HP would be laughed at today.

Even 450 hp.