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I have a gurney flap coming, I have a question
- Thread starter TURBO2GO
- Start date
Dave, all kidding aside, IMHO that piece really looks ugly. If you are after speed at track corners, then by all means get more rear downforce to keep the tail happy. But from all your posts you aren't the type that drives or wants to drive his NSX 10/10. If you want to enjoy the driving experience challenge, then keep Type-R wing and play/master with that limit.
When you increase the rear downforce on your setup, you are increasing the grip and hence the speed in turns and therefore on the straights as you carry more speed while tracking out. With more speeds come more risks ........ > roll bar anyone?!
When you increase the rear downforce on your setup, you are increasing the grip and hence the speed in turns and therefore on the straights as you carry more speed while tracking out. With more speeds come more risks ........ > roll bar anyone?!
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What would you reckon the down force increase would be if lip of about .25 inches was added on to the type r style wing? The increase in percentage range as a quantifiable number may be more difficult to obtain. Not looking for a BAQ just something that has more df than the r and keeping the less ricey look.
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*BAW
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don't want to answer for Billy (he knows more than me!) but a lot of the magic of the R wing is from the airfoil design. I suspect if the rear gurney flap is too big it just becomes drag instead of downforce?
there's a lot to be gained from underbody panneling but as Hrant mentioned earlier.. I'm beginning to enjoy the limits of my NSX as it sits. It's already too fast for my skills and my cajones.
I wouldn't view it like that, but rather with a wing (or just more downforce at the rear), you can go through a given corner at the same speed much easier with MORE REAR STABILITY. This puts you at much less risk than driving the car with the limiting factor being rear grip at high speeds. A lot of S2000s greatly benefit from stability, improved laptimes, and actually LESS spins by adding a rear wing, not increasing cornering speeds and thus increasing the probability of crashes.
Without trying it that's pretty much impossible to guesstimate. I might have an 'idea' after trying it on my wing to subjectively quantify it compared to no NSX-R wing.
I'm not sure how efficient the 'airfoil' design of the NSX-R wing is due to the near vertical trailing edge of the wing. I'm not sure how much downforce it makes from an airfoil standpoint vs. generating downforce from its spoiler-like attributes. Then again, the DTM M3-GT spoiler (from the E36 M3 but used on the E46 and E92 M3's that race in Grand-Am) isn't a perfect airfoil design either and also does not have a lot of room below the wing to speed up the air. But the M3 wing also makes a noticeable amount of downforce.
I'd guess a 'gurney-flap' on a NSX-R wing would increase its spoiler-like air-deflecting benefits of producing downforce over producing downforce through reducing air pressure under the airfoil from speeding up the air. I made a ~6" tall nascar-style spoiler that zip-tied to Ryneens car and it made a significant amount of rear grip and stability.
You don't even have an NSX-R wing? It WILL improve your average lap times over stock.
Ohh but I do...... a DF replica ...I'm guessing that this Lee press on flap added to my R wing would not make a difference......but heck if some track guys want to do some testing I'm all eyes.
Cleaning and removing wax help. But if you are really serious about wanting it to stick, you use the recommended adhesion promoter. Bodyshops buy this stuff in bulk and it REALLY makes a difference.
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/MMM0/06396.oap?pt=N0400
Fasteners are a bit tricky in composites. I still need to get the book "nuts bolts and fasteners" and i forget the name of the 1000+ page fastener book.
For what I know, rivnuts/nutserts are not great for load bearing bolts. They rely on their ribbed edges to counter the torque acted on the bolt. In carbon this is a big issue.
Floating anchor nuts are probably a better choice but require drilling a hole then 2 holes close to it for the rivets that fasten it to the carbon. Still not great but much better for strength. Then again drilling in carbon is never easy. Use masking tape when drilling.
Same principle as nutsert/rivnut. Just don't tighten the bolt that goes into the nutsert/rivnut/plusnut too tightly or it'll eventually give and you have a useless hole unless you drill it out and use the next size larger plusnut.
We have been running a small gurney (or maybe not, given the explanation on the first page!) and i was surprised at the difference such a small piece made for rear end stability. It just gave so much more confidence, and felt much quicker. In terms of time, you're talking maybe two or three tenths in my case. For my Elise though, it is well worth doing as it made only a 1kmph difference to top speed; which can cost you a few tenths every straight.
Of course, it's difficult to recommend such things as all cars are different. I see there is a trend to attach big diffusers on here now, yet cars are running no where near low enough to benefit from it. Your overall aero and suspension package are going to exacerbate whatever the 'gurney' does. For example, after removing the gurney to run at Spa (long, long straights) and changing set up, when we put it back on the car understeered and felt horrible. We then had to chance the setup again to be able to take advantage of the gurney once again.
And to answer the question about attachment, ours stayed on a whole season just using black sticky tape! You can just about see it in this picture, being a different shade (carbon on top of the matt bodywork).
P.S. If you take a look at my avatar, that front splitter made a HUGE difference to the car on track. Way more than the NSX-R rear spoiler and ducted hood. Turn-in was fantastic in high-speed bends as a result. Not great for speedhumps, but an easy to switch splitter for the track is a worthwhile investment.
Of course, it's difficult to recommend such things as all cars are different. I see there is a trend to attach big diffusers on here now, yet cars are running no where near low enough to benefit from it. Your overall aero and suspension package are going to exacerbate whatever the 'gurney' does. For example, after removing the gurney to run at Spa (long, long straights) and changing set up, when we put it back on the car understeered and felt horrible. We then had to chance the setup again to be able to take advantage of the gurney once again.
And to answer the question about attachment, ours stayed on a whole season just using black sticky tape! You can just about see it in this picture, being a different shade (carbon on top of the matt bodywork).
P.S. If you take a look at my avatar, that front splitter made a HUGE difference to the car on track. Way more than the NSX-R rear spoiler and ducted hood. Turn-in was fantastic in high-speed bends as a result. Not great for speedhumps, but an easy to switch splitter for the track is a worthwhile investment.
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Rob that is great info. Thanks. are you saying you GAINED speed with the gurney on the elise? I don't quite get this sentence... seems contradictory:
"For my Elise though, it is well worth doing as it made only a 1kmph difference to top speed; which can cost you a few tenths every straight"
"For my Elise though, it is well worth doing as it made only a 1kmph difference to top speed; which can cost you a few tenths every straight"
