Most expensive car wash....ever!

[VancouverBCnsx]

Allow me to set the scene. I was driving my 91 NSX (which is a year past due for a timing/water pump replacement) back from the beach when it stalled for no apparent reason at an intersection. Shortly after it restarted there was a terrible noise coming from the engine bay. Fearing the worst I immediately shut it off and coasted to the curb. In the morning I had the car towed to a local Acura dealer for diagnosis. The mechanic was also concerned about starting it up so commenced by checking whether the timing belt was still intact and proceeded with compression tests, etc. Well 6 chargeable hours later I was relieved to hear that the engine was in great shape. However the cause of the noise was a seized air conditioning compressor. So 6 hours translated to roughly C$850 at dealership rates but the good news was I got a very nice "free" car wash.

A few queries:
1. Given the circumstances, I was in agreement with the conservative approach to not starting the car until it was prudent to do so. But was the 6 hours charged reasonable?
2. How many hours should I expect to be charged to replace the A/C compressor?

Thanks

 

[Bram]

Wow....
You would think that if the Tech knew what he was doing, he could have just turn the engine over by hand, to determine if the Timing belt snapped......Just saying

Bram

 

[Jinks]

Compression and leak down tests can be done in less than 1.5 hours if you know the nsx engine well. Six hours diagnosis is laughable. If the same mechanic is doing the work on the compressor I'd say 12 hours.

 

[91 X]

No way a certified Nsx Tech would take take six hours to figure out something as simple as that.....sorry, sounds like you got focked by a stealership. I would try to talk to the manager to find out why it took a certified NSX tech could take that long to figure out where the noise was coming from???

And I would be taking it somewhere else for the work that needs to be done.

 

[furinax]

From Kaz's post in http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?12838-Air-Conditioning-Compressor-1991-NSX it seems to be a 2.7 hour job. I would not trust a dealership which charges 6 hours of labor just for a diagnosis to do the job.

 

[VancouverBCnsx]

Thanks for the feedback, it has been very informative.
Once it was determined that the timing belt was not ripped, was it relatively safe to start up the engine? I believe the NSX tech at a minimum also inspected the belt for any missing teeth to determine whether the belt had slipped somewhat. What other steps would have been necessary/prudent before firing up the engine and figuring it out that the a/c compressor was the source of the noise?
Thanks

 

[Wavey1]

On ANY car, the first thing to check would be the easily-accessible ancillary parts, like the alternator, power steering pump, AC compressor, recirculation air pumps on older cars, etc. Just remove the belts and check those parts by hand. Half-hour job at most. This is so obvious it's laughable.

 

[Old Guy]

6 hours does seem a bit out there. But, some things to consider, especially for Canadian owners. Given the population of NSXs in Canada, even if the dealership has a certified NSX tech, chances are that the tech does not have a huge amount of experience with the NSX and a lot of that experience will be routine maintenance. Hands-on time counts in skills development and there just isn't that much hands-on opportunity in the Canadian market. Comparing a time estimate from someone like Kaz or Larry B. who specialize in the NSX is probably unfair. Be glad that its not a Ferrari. $850 would be a bargain.

With respect to turning the engine over by hand. I remember reading comments that if you expect the possibility of a cam belt timing error, you don't turn the engine over by hand. Apparently it is possible to bend a valve unless you have a very sensitive touch. Seems extreme, but, from my perspective with the engine in place, from the top side I am not sure that I could even get a wrench down there to even turn the crankshaft.

I would have thought that with a seized compressor, there would have been damage to the compressor drive belt, likely with belt burning and rubber bits flung around which would have provided some evidence as to a likely cause. If you are working from the top, the AC belt is 'down there' and not the easiest thing to examine. If the engine is dirty, then it may have been difficult to spot the damage.

I suspect that you had a less experienced tech who has a significant fear of doing more damage to an engine that is really expensive to fix (in terms of other Hondas). You probably have a basis for having a discussion with the service manager about the reasonableness of the charges and perhaps some consideration. Either a rebate on the charges or some consideration on future work such as that impending timing belt replacement. I might be inclined to point out that if the tech had confirmed that the timing belt was intact and had not slipped, carrying out the compression test was unnecessary. It would also be useful to ask why there was no obvious evidence such as AC belt damage that would make the source of the problem obvious. Unless you are prepared to do the work yourself or you have access to another dealership in which you have more confidence, you probably do not want to burn the relationship with the service department.

If there is an up side, they fixed the problem and did not break anything new. Not everybody gets to say that when you take their NSX in for work.

 

[VancouverBCnsx]

To put things into perspective, this Tech is the NSX expert trained 27 years ago and has had lots of NSX related maintenance experience at this large Acura dealership over the years. In fact he is the designated Tech specifically trained to work on the new NSX as well.
Per the invoice, the specific work undertaken to diagnose the problem was:
1. disassembled to inspect timing belt timing, condition, tension and teeth integrity
2. checked lash for bent valves
3. no adjustments made
4. re-assembled and ran car and rowed through all gears to determine transmission integrity
5. turned on AC and compressor extremely noisy
6. ran car for an hour to check for fan cycling overheating or leaks

I was verbally told that compression test were performed as well.

The compressor is apparently free wheeling and not as yet seized. However it was recommended to replace to prevent seizing irrespective of whether planning to put in use or not. (Currently driving with no noise as AC turned off.

Again thanks for the comments which are most helpful in assessing the situation.

Marc

 

[curtsr]

Since you are a year overdue on TB/WP and he was in there for 6 hours why wasn't the TB service done???

 

[VancouverBCnsx]

He was really only authorized to diagnose the problem. I think the issue is why he needed 6 hours to do so especially with his extensive NSX experience. All the parts for the timing belt/water pump service were not necessarily in stock. In addition, I was balking at the quoted 16 hours for timing belt/water pump including cam plugs (but not cam seals) and a valve adjustment. An extra hour was quoted to do the oil pan gasket.

 

[Hass]

I wouldn't let them wash my car