My progress updates and question for track minded people.

[illwillem]

1K2GO- its a sorcery GT, not positive the pipe diameter but its the same as the test pipes so im guessing like 2.75.

RYU- Yeah I was thinking about getting it on a dyno just for piece of mind since I have no idea what im making. Its the Prospeed RDX chip and injectors and I am running a uni-filter in the stock airbox with stock TB and stock VVIS, comptech headers, test pipes to this exhaust. Im sort of at the mercy of their tuin. I have been thinking about getting the AEM so I could run e85 and have tuning capability but would prefer to keep everything stockish simple. I'd rather run super safe and be down on power than cause issues. Seems your saying I may be doing the opposite

I screwed around and made some other brackeys last night for the Diffuser. I have to pull it out of the garage today to see if im still satisfied with how its sitting when more than a few feet away. going to finish a few other things so I cap put some miles on it this weekend to see if anything shakes loose.

 

[RYU]

You might be ok but knowing how you drive this beast I think it would be prudent to just get it on the dyno, not for a power run but just to check the vitals (pressures, AFRs, etc). I wouldn't run E85 and/or an AEM either so I agree with you there. The gains aren't worth the risk/reward imo. If you were boosted or had a built motor.. then different story entirely which you know..

Please read this thread on the Prospeed RDX mod though. I think it's a good mod if done properly but there is a small contingent of folks who have had problems. Your car is prone to a lot of vibration so i'm concerned about the solder coming off the pc board from the ZIF socket.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/173168-Trouble-with-Prospeed-RDX-and-ECU-upgrade

Hope it helps! I'll go with you to get it dyno'd one day if the timing works out.

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oh.. my guess is it's a 2.5" (65mm) OD on those pipes. 2.75" is hard to come by and likely be too big unless you're north of 500hp.

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In terms of your rear diffuser... DF made a prototype that bolts onto the Taitec one you have for a center exit. This car is stuck at Evasive right now due to some engine issues but I wouldn't be surprised if they'd make one for you if you hit them up.

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Hopefully at least some of my posts are helpful. I feel like i'm spamming LOL

I thought I read somewhere about you using the Mishimoto fans. Don't. They are JUNK. They claim 900CFM each so 1800CFM for two... I hardly believe that.

I tried their setup. Then now I installed a High Output Paddle blade Spal fan with a OEM radiator shroud Jim gave me. It works much better and can run off the factory wiring. I can show you how I did this if you're interested.

 

[illwillem]

Yes^^ please do, I was going to put the Mishi's in the weekend but this looks much more robust and I dont have to clip/soulder my fan wiring. Do you know the CFM on the OEM set up? Ill have to made sure it'll clear my radiator ducting first though.

I was thinking about making a better diffuser now that I have a true center exit, Ill contact DF and see how much they'll charge for the new center section. Hopefully theyll be willing to make one. I also remember that they had an add on for a under motor tray, I was thinking about fabbing one myself and doing some NACA ducts under the trans and to the oil cooler... Maybe theyll do a package deal if I get the diffuser?

 

[illwillem]

Finished fiddling with the diffuser, I needed to space it down 1/4 of an inch to clear the new exhaust. Added some NASA shielding to it to to reflect some of the heat, don't want a fire




Also added some to the radiator ducting around the BMC, I was astounded on how much heat it was soaking up after getting up to temp and the fan kicking on.


spaced out the endlinks correctly too so I could use the center hole on the dale bar with the new endlinks

 

[RYU]

Yes^^ please do, I was going to put the Mishi's in the weekend but this looks much more robust and I dont have to clip/soulder my fan wiring. Do you know the CFM on the OEM set up? Ill have to made sure it'll clear my radiator ducting first though.

I was thinking about making a better diffuser now that I have a true center exit, Ill contact DF and see how much they'll charge for the new center section. Hopefully theyll be willing to make one. I also remember that they had an add on for a under motor tray, I was thinking about fabbing one myself and doing some NACA ducts under the trans and to the oil cooler... Maybe theyll do a package deal if I get the diffuser?

Sorry, I thought I replied to this. I don't know the CFM on the OEM setup. If I was to guess it's probably around <1200 CFM. It was designed to be quiet. It has two speeds via a resistor. The Spal fan I have now sounds like a mothereffin' tornado. Let me know whenever you want to work on your shroud. I'll show you were to trim it or I can do it for you with my air saw. You'll need to sacrifice your OEM rad though and i'm not sure if you've got enough clearance there behind the fan with your duct work. We'll have to measure mine and see...

You can go with this Super High Output (turbine blades). Might need a relay on this bad boy though.
http://www.a1electric.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AEOS&Product_Code=30103202HO

I was testing with this paddle blade unit because I had one around... It's been running great on the factory wiring (bypassed resistor) If you ever go FI you'll have to upgrade that Koyo rad I reckon. It's simply not enough no matter how much fan you throw at it at the temps we run down here in SoCal. I'm actually curious if you don't overheat the Koyo rad at the RPMs you run. Jim and I can't use the Koyos
http://www.a1electric.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AEOS&Product_Code=30102038

Where did you pick up that shielding btw? I need some more but the one I have was given to me as a small roll. I'm all out. I used most of it on my oil pan around the front header.

Nice work on the diffuser! If you've got it working I see no point in going with the DF center piece unless you want the bling

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btw.. i'm torn between ordering the turbine fan and swapping my paddle blade version or going with dual fans. I've got the dual fans enroute to me from Italy directly as we speak.

As you know Jim and I are testing radiator configurations so I know more than I ever want to know about these stupid fans.

 

[illwillem]

I get close to the upper temps id want to run with the Koyo, ive been thinking about getting something a little bigger and better just so I have some safety margin. I have seen a few nice radiators but I've been put off with the price tags since mine still 'works' ponying as much cash as a really good one requires i always divert to other areas instead. I held off on putting the mishi's on per your advise but I did eye ball the clearance I have on my ducting if I were to do something similar to yours and looks like it may be close. Im curious to see if it would fit and if so I wouldn't think twice about sacrificing my shroud.

 

[illwillem]

Regan, where do you think I should go to get the tune checked out on the dyno? Since im on just a chipped ECU with no wideband and no stand alone will they be able to pull any pertinent a/f data aside from just doing power pulls?

I have a feeling now that i am running pretty lean like you said because of the exhaust. I haven't taken it up to vtec even yet (because it too loud for my neighborhood) but there is a stumble at about 3800 in first gear that the taitec exhaust didn't have. Im guessing its a back pressure issue but to be honest I have no idea.

 

[RYU]

I believe L_Rao has a tuning session next Monday at Bisimoto with Brian from Prospeed. PM him. You might be able to tag along and take care of your stuff while the whole posse is there.

I'm not a huge fan of how that ZIF socket is soldered on your ECU for the kind of driving we do (high vibration, high G's) but it's the most cost effect, best value, to get you there right now. Fortunately, with this mod you can tune your OEM ECU to accomodate for the increase in air flow. Unfortunately, only Brian can do it and I believe he prefers to do it at Bisi's place.

I'll let L_Rao know about this thread also.

Do you ever plan to log your engine's vitals and maybe review it after every session? It's a slippery slope, I know!

 

[L_RAO]

Actually it got pushed back (again) to Wednesday.

illwillem - they should be able to extract a lot of usable data, including HP, TQ, AFRs, temps, and vacuum. Probably more, but that is all I see when I'm there as a bystander.

 

[illwillem]

Humm, I really didn't want to start messing around with stand alone's for the NSX. I have a kpro on my RSX and it does well for power but has these little issues that I have to clear with the OBD to get it to run right now and again. How wide spread is the solder issue? My ZIF port was installed on the ECU before I got the car, it had a Dinan chip (im guessing the work was done at Dinan since the ecu shell has a dinan serial number.) hopefully they did it right?

Sort of a quandary then, getting the readings if theres nothing I can do about it other than getting a new one off chip from Prospeed or have to end up going stand alone if it is in fact it really lean. It would make since to try and tag along at Bisi if I can move heaven and earth to take another day off work...

 

[RYU]

Oh, wait a sec...

I think i'm getting confused. For some reason I thought you had the "Prospeed RDX Injector Upgrade". It sounds like you have a Dinan chip. Totally different! If you have prospeed's chip then your ECU has already been "messed with" so to speak.

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So my concern was how the ZIF socket is soldered on. It requires some special solder equipment to melt and reinstall the solder at the same time for all leads onto the circuit board. I'm sure Dinan had the resources to do it properly so you might be ok. I have a feeling those chips all use the same ZIF socket so I don't think prospeed needed to resolder on a new ZIF, which is great.

However, his chip is tuned for the basic I/H/E mods on an avg NSX for the RDX injector configuration. I'd argue you might be slightly beyond that now so you'd want Brian to retune that or at least get an idea of what your AFR graph looks like - I would, if I were you.

Please do a partial throttle measurements and at WOT as well. Wish I could go with you.... If you want I can setup a time with Evasive but they won't be able to tune your car since they don't have the software the chip is coded to. They'll only be able to read your AFR. If you had all the sensors installed (Wideband, etc) we can setup a time with RS*R to get you some free dyno time in exchange for them being able to get before/after RS*R Ran-Up dyno graphs from your car.

This is probably getting complicated.. Sorry. Just trying to look out for you car man. More track time. LEss down time!

 

[illwillem]

No I have the ZIF port installed on the ECU from dinan, when I got the car i swapped the dinan out with a Dali hot chip. Then when I ordered the Prospeed RDX kit i swapped the dali-chip out with the prospeed v2 chip. Since the ECU was already modded to accept after market chips I would just carefully plug them it into the port myself.

I would invest in a wideband 02 to get a more accurate reading, I've never been a big 'tuning type' as opposed to just driving things with chips and aftermarket off-the-shelf ecu's. Can i run just the wideband 02's and leave everything else how it is? I guess I have some reading to do..

 

[stuntman]

Might want to ditch the stock fan/shroud and run a low profile SPAL (~1200cfm) fan. With the efficiency of your sealed radiator inlet and outlet, the stock fan shroud is more of a restriction than benefit - they don't do anything above 45mph anyway and are primarily for cooling efficiency in stop-and-go traffic.


0.02

 

[9doors]

a little late, but hopefully helpful. I agree with Regan that at some point the Koyo has to go. I have one of Shad's racing radiators that I'll be selling once I get around to it if you have any interest whatsoever. I finally went with a custom solution and installed a PWR with an integrated oil cooler and dual 1300cfm SPAL fans. Nick and I had to run -12 lines through the tunnel, but it turned out really fabulous. I also importantly was able to get rid of the time bomb, aka, the SOS Oil cooler.

 

[illwillem]

9Doors: Id be interested in that radiator whenever it comes off the car. Im going to talk to a few people I know about getting a custom spearco made too. I sort of just want to be done worrynig about cooling. Im not running boost or anything but its something thats always in the back of my head while on the track. Ive gone through the SOS oil cooler and looked for weak spots, seems pretty simple and bullet proof to me other than the push on hoses and the suggested routing going directly over the spinning axle. Once you remedy those its not much more than AN fittings and a setrab cooling unit with a mini spal fan, the only thing it seems that SOS actually makes is the mounting brackets and the sandwich spacer for the filter. am I missing something that make is dangerous?


Billy: I was thinking the same thing about the restrictiveness of the OEM fan shroud. Ive notices that in a few photos I see of larger rads the shroud has been trimmed down on the sides, that may be a good solution for now.

 

[9doors]

Wil, it's out of the car now, sitting at Nick's since I couldn't fit it my NSX for the drive home. The pic you posted is actually it. As for SOS...yes, the hoses/routing/placement are the issue. The 'Captin' blew hoses on the way to a track and thank goodness saw his oil pressure drop before losing the motor. I blew a hose right after we took it off the rack after some other work. Ravi blew a hose on track which sprayed oil on his exhaust (hence the placement issue) and ended up having an oil fire that toasted his bumper...Hence, my time bomb reference...

 

[illwillem]

PM me about the Radiator if you want.

Christ, fire is a HUGE fear of mine on track Ive seen a few cars burn down and never want to be in that situation myself. Now when you say 'blew the hoses' do you mean the hose disconnected from its slip fitting or that the hose itself actually blew up? Ive clamped all the slip fittings on mine, never trust those things when it comes to engine oil.

 

[9doors]

"Blew the hoses" meant exactly that. the POS hoses that SOS puts in the kit burst. I'll drop ya a PM on the rad.

 

[ryneen]

It's about time for me to replace my radiator since there are quite a few fins that are bent. Is there a drop in radiator & fan solution that works well with the vented Type R hood? Also, if I seal off the bottom with a splitter and under tray, it just doesn't seam like the vent in the Type R hood could flow enough air compared to the large inlet. Does anyone know if the Type R hood has adequate air flow for the outlet?

 

[Greg-TT]

"Blew the hoses" meant exactly that. the POS hoses that SOS puts in the kit burst.

Haha, add me to that list. A few days ago I went for a test run with just added GTC300 wing. Felt good so I was blasting through the canyon... Then I noticed a smoke coming from the back. Stopped the car and the next thing you see is there are oil every where and it may have caught on fire if I kept on going. Thank God that would have been a disaster. I'm guessing the extra downforce on the rear caused more rubbing on the hose hence the burst? Who knows? Looks like it's time to ditch the SOS time bomb and Koyo all together and consider doing a similar route as you. I'm having my car dropped off at Nick's next week so I'll ask him about PWR with integrated oil cooler and 1300cfm fan set up. BTW, sorry for going off topic Wil. I thoroughly enjoy your progress thread and appreciate the helpful insights.

 

[RYU]

Haha, add me to that list. A few days ago I went for a test run on local canyon with just added GTC300 wing. Felt good so I was pushing hard around the corners blasting through the canyon... Then I noticed smoke coming from the back. Stopped the car and the next thing you see is there are oil every where and the car was about to catch fire but luckily it didn't. Thank God that would have been a disaster. I'm guessing the extra downforce on the rear caused more rubbing on the hose hence the burst? Who knows? Looks like it's time to ditch the SOS time bomb and Koyo all together and consider doing a similar route as you. I'm having my car dropped off at Nick's next week so I'll ask him about PWR with integrated oil cooler and 1300cfm fan set up. Thanks for the great info.

FI folks, like yourself, will likely need more capacity than the PWR but that's just a guess on my part since I've not tried the PWR myself. I do love the integrated oil cooler. That thing is an awesome feature. However, the chances for a leak are the same. You're still running external, high pressure, oil hoses outside of the engine and if the water to oil core leaks then you've got oil in the coolant (pick your poison I guess!). I suspect SOS used crappy fittings/hoses or hose clamps (or lack thereof) and addressing that will likely fix the "ticking time bomb" problem? I simply never liked the placement of it under the car and near the exhaust like that to begin with...

Coz and I are in the final stages of testing a high capacity radiator that is 100% drop-in OEM fitment. We're both FI but i'm running a relatively stock 1.7L CTSC while he's running a fully built 600wHP turbo , with a water to oil Laminova oil cooler, and blocked with a front mount intercooler, in hot Arizona heat . After several months of hard work the last version is due to me sometime next week. It's why I want to track the car locally before the weather cools down!

I'm not sure about the PWR's capacity for FI (they make excellent stuff) but in about a month another viable radiator option will be available out there.

The S2000 R&D unit is on the bottom. NSX R&D on top. (NSX is always on top!)

 

[GUNDAN323]

a little late, but hopefully helpful. I agree with Regan that at some point the Koyo has to go. I have one of Shad's racing radiators that I'll be selling once I get around to it if you have any interest whatsoever. I finally went with a custom solution and installed a PWR with an integrated oil cooler and dual 1300cfm SPAL fans. Nick and I had to run -12 lines through the tunnel, but it turned out really fabulous. I also importantly was able to get rid of the time bomb, aka, the SOS Oil cooler.

Any pictures to share your PWR setup?

Did you install an accusump while under there as well?

 

[9doors]

I completely support Regan's work on the new radiator. Coz, is super-happy with it and I would have went that direction if i didn't want the integrated piece. The Laminova isn't really an option. It's a complete bitch to run one in the NSX. Just ask Coz. I do have hoses to deal with, but unlike the SOS setup, they are -12 and go forward from the oil filter to the radiator and are almost completely under my fuel cell undertray and the tunnel cover. I'm also no running approx 10-11qts of oil, so I have better heat absorption and more oil in the system so if something does burst i'll have that much more time to shut down the car and save the motor.

As for the PWR, I may be wrong, but I don't think you can get one. I think they just made two of them. On is in the Shanghai car and the other is in mine. Nick might convince them to make another one.

No accusump since I'm now running so much oil. Will post a pic of the setup later.

 

[illwillem]

Are you worried about oil pressure being too low with the smallish stock gear pumping that much volume, I was looking into the PWR tears ago but decided against it for that reason. At this point i really wish I would have just gone to a dry sump system. when you add everything up, its about the same cost but with much less limitation.

 

[9doors]

Great question. We tested this because it was a consideration. Pressures are actually great with this setup and the OEM pump!