NOT going to Disneyland.........

[Justin664]

Where did you get the "E" picture. It looks like the Maharishi and at the least Photochopped. If this is freely available, why has this not been reported by every major news org. in the world? Please don't fall back on the "theory" that everyone is involved in a giant conspiracy.

The New York Times, Washington Post, and Fox News are all in the business to make money. Do you think that they would make a little more if they were to break a story like this? Possibly the US government paid them off...or UNOCAL or Enron or...the list goes on and on.

You question everything that is presented as truth in the US, but not a Portuguese reporter. Again, where is the rest of the world press following up on this reporter's story?

 

[Eric5273]

If you think that a major media outlet in this country would avoid breaking what would be potentially the largest story in the last 50 years because it doesn't "fit in with company guidelines and the viewpoints we are trying to portray" then you’re more than a little naive.

Ok.........here we go.

The subject title is: Many of the "9/11 Hijackers" are still alive

Sources:

- Ahmed Alnami is still alive and working as an administrative supervisor with Saudi Arabian Airlines, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.[Los Angeles Times, 9/21/01] He had never lost his passport and found it "very worrying" that his identity appeared to have been stolen. [Telegraph, 9/23/01]

- Saeed Alghamdi is alive and learning how to fly airplanes in Tunisia. [Los Angeles Times, 9/21/01,BBC, 9/23/01] The Telegraph notes, "The FBI had published his personal details but with a photograph of somebody else, presumably a hijacker who had 'stolen' his identity. CNN, however, showed a picture of the real Mr. Alghamdi." [Telegraph, 9/23/01]

- Salem Alhazmi is alive and working at a petrochemical plant in Yanbou, Saudi Arabia. [Los Angeles Times, 9/21/01,Telegraph, 9/23/01] He says his passport was stolen by a pickpocket in Cairo three years ago. [Guardian, 9/21/01]

- Waleed Alshehri is alive and a pilot with Saudi Airlines, studying in Morocco. [Los Angeles Times, 9/21/01,Associated Press, 9/22/01] He acknowledges that he attended flight training school at Dayton Beach in the United States. [BBC, 9/23/01] He also says FBI photos of the terrorist are of him. [Daily Trust, 9/24/01]

- Abdulaziz Alomari is alive and working as a pilot for Saudi Arabian Airlines. [New York Times, 9/16/01,Independent, 9/17/01,BBC, 9/23/01] He claims that his passport was stolen when he was living in Denver in 1995. [Los Angeles Times, 9/21/01] "They gave my name and my date of birth, but I am not a suicide bomber. I am here. I am alive." [Telegraph, 9/23/01]

- The BBC says, "There are suggestions that another suspect, Khalid Almihdhar, may also be alive." [BBC, 9/23/01]

- No one claims that Hamza Alghamdi is still alive, but his family says the FBI photo "has no resemblance to him at all." [Washington Post, 9/25/01]


So we have here information stricly from these sources:

American Sources: New York Times, Los Angeles Times, Associated Press, Washington Post

British Sources: Telegraph, BBC, Guardian, Independent

No conspiracy websites, no Arabic news sources like Al-Jazeera, just your major media. Seems to me that they reported this story just fine. If this is the case, then how come most Americans are not aware of it?

 

[dlongo]

Where did you get the "E" picture. It looks like the Maharishi and at the least Photochopped. If this is freely available, why has this not been reported by every major news org. in the world? Please don't fall back on the "theory" that everyone is involved in a giant conspiracy.

It looks to me like picture E is just taken in a different light from a different angle than the rest of the pictures, but it doesn't even matter because even if it really is bin laden in the video there are other conspiracy theorists who think only the voices but not the video was faked, they can't even agree amongst themselves what the video really means or how it was faked. No matter how much the guy in the video looks or doesn't look like bin laden is also irrelevant because even if it was a dead-on match for other pictures of bin laden, then they would say it was a computer generated image of bin laden. They refuse to believe it because they don't want to, and there is no way to convince them otherwise.

 

[dlongo]

Ok.........here we go.

The subject title is: Many of the "9/11 Hijackers" are still alive

Yes there was quite a bit of confusion following 9/11 over the true identities of the hijackers, many were using names that happened to match names and description of other people in various places around the globe. I don't see how these articles support your conspiracy theory.

 

[Eric5273]

Where did you get the "E" picture. It looks like the Maharishi and at the least Photochopped. If this is freely available, why has this not been reported by every major news org. in the world?

The "E" picture is a still frame from the video. But here are some more from:

CNN: Bin Laden on tape: Attacks 'benefited Islam greatly'

Here's one from the PBS website:

And here is one from the Chicago Tribune website:

If you want to, you can watch the whole video through that CNN link I just gave.

 

[Eric5273]

Yes there was quite a bit of confusion following 9/11 over the true identities of the hijackers, many were using names that happened to match names and description of other people in various places around the globe. I don't see how these articles support your conspiracy theory.

If you read what I wrote, that is not the case at all. The FBI claims some of these guys on the planes were pilots and cites that they studied at certain flight schools in the US. But the people with those names that studied at the flight schools are still alive. They all admit that they studied in the US at these flight schools at the time the FBI says they did. These are the exact people the FBI says were on those planes, not just other people who happen to have the same name.

 

[Eric5273]

They refuse to believe it because they don't want to, and there is no way to convince them otherwise.

No....they way to convince them (me) is to offer physical evidence placing the 19 hijackers on those planes. But the Justice Department is refusing to release even one document of proof to Bush's own 9/11 Commission which he appointed to investigate the attacks. They claim they have all this proof, but cannot release it due to national security concerns. Yet the 9/11 Commission has sopena power and the members of the commission were given clearance to see classified materials. The reason they have not released their evidence is because they do not have any. I will be convinced when I see their evidence. But that will surely never happen.

 

[dlongo]

If you read what I wrote, that is not the case at all. The FBI claims some of these guys on the planes were pilots and cites that they studied at certain flight schools in the US. But the people with those names that studied at the flight schools are still alive. They all admit that they studied in the US at these flight schools at the time the FBI says they did. These are the exact people the FBI says were on those planes, not just other people who happen to have the same name.

The fact that some may have used fake identities has been reported and reported and reported. It's just not a smoking gun or even close. That's why nobody cares.

 

[dlongo]

No....they way to convince them (me) is to offer physical evidence placing the 19 hijackers on those planes. But the Justice Department is refusing to release even one document of proof to Bush's own 9/11 Commission which he appointed to investigate the attacks. They claim they have all this proof, but cannot release it due to national security concerns. Yet the 9/11 Commission has sopena power and the members of the commission were given clearance to see classified materials. The reason they have not released their evidence is because they do not have any. I will be convinced when I see their evidence. But that will surely never happen.

I'm can't even figure out what you think happened on 9/11. You think there were some hijackers, but they aren't the hijackers that the FBI says were the hijackers? And even though they hijacked the planes, they had to have remote control boxes fly the planes for them because it was too hard to do it themselves? And even though the remote control boxes were in charge, they managed to override the box on flight 93 and crash the place when the passengers revolted? It doesn't even make sense.

 

[Eric5273]

The fact that some may have used fake identities has been reported and reported and reported. It's just not a smoking gun or even close. That's why nobody cares.

Some may have?? How about "some definately did" and "all may have".

And it is a smoking gun because if some used fake IDs, then the FBI does not know who they really were. If all used fake IDs, then how can they be sure who any of them are and then how can they know who is behind the attacks...

Whoever was on those planes went out of their way to leave a big trail of evidence in every possible way they knew how. If they were using fake IDs all this while, then they were obviously trying to lay the blame at someone else's door.

 

[Eric5273]

I'm can't even figure out what you think happened on 9/11. You think there were some hijackers, but they aren't the hijackers that the FBI says were the hijackers? And even though they hijacked the planes, they had to have remote control boxes fly the planes for them because it was too hard to do it themselves? And even though the remote control boxes were in charge, they managed to override the box on flight 93 and crash the place when the passengers revolted? It doesn't even make sense.

My point is only that the official story is bullcrap. Something else happened that day, and I'm not sure what, but the government's story has more holes than swiss cheese. Maybe the hijackers on those planes were MK-ULTRA products like Sirhan Sirhan and they were just carrying out the actions without much thought. Then they lay the blame on Al-Queda and can start their war. I have no evidence of this, but you asked for a theory that makes sense, so there is one possibility.

(somehow I doubt you will know what I'm talking about, so use the google search engine and you will see)

 

[nsxtasy]

- Ahmed Alnami is still alive
.
.
.
- Saeed Alghamdi is alive
.
.
.

Walter Johnson pitched for the Washington Senators and is a member of the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown. He died in 1946. However, a web search shows that there are over 1000 people in this country claiming to be Walter Johnson. Therefore he must still be alive, at the age of 115! I'm sure this is a government conspiracy, too.

 

[nsxtasy]

Eric,

You have not answered Viper Driver's questions. You also have not responded to my point here:

That's the biggest hole in all of the conspiracy theories - the fact that the United States (and the rest of the free world) has an independent press that would jump at the chance to unveil the "real" story of what happened - as long as it could be verified by reliable sources. When they don't, it tells you that the story is a bunch of baloney.

Which is the same point that Spencer made, in greater detail.

I agree with Viper Driver. The fact that you do not reply to the points that are made - that you cannot present any credible refutation - shows just how silly your way of thinking is. How long do you think you can drone on without addressing the points that have been presented? I'm sure everyone (except you, apparently) already realizes that you have no answer for these points. You have indeed already lost this pissing contest, and have convinced us only that you have no answers, no credibility, and no legitimacy.

 

[Eric5273]

Walter Johnson pitched for the Washington Senators and is a member of the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown. He died in 1946. However, a web search shows that there are over 1000 people in this country claiming to be Walter Johnson. Therefore he must still be alive, at the age of 115! I'm sure this is a government conspiracy, too.

Did any of these other Walter Johnsons also pitch for the Washington Senators? Were they also elected members of the hall of fame and were they born on the same day and year as him?

The FBI is claiming that men who attended certain flight schools were on those planes, but the men with those names who attended the flight schools are alive and well. Much more than just the names match here. Birthdates, pictures, complete identities are an exact match to people who are still alive. These were not just people with the same name.

 

[Eric5273]

In response to

That's the biggest hole in all of the conspiracy theories - the fact that the United States (and the rest of the free world) has an independent press that would jump at the chance to unveil the "real" story of what happened - as long as it could be verified by reliable sources. When they don't, it tells you that the story is a bunch of baloney.

I disagree based on personal experience.

My dad was very involved with the JFK Act. He reads that sort of stuff as a hobby, but over the years he has become an expert on the subject of the JFK Assasination. He has been quoted in many books on the subject. During the 1990s, he testified in front of the congressional review board many times while he and others helped direct them to release many tens of thousands of classified documents on the subject. Many of the things released were things that would make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up.

Once every several months, the review board would call a press conference to reveal their latest findings. They would invite members from all the media and usually there were well over 100 reporters present for these press conferences. Several times my dad even offered to help a few of them write stories on the subject. However, every single time an article was written, it failed to appear in that particular newspaper. When my dad would inquire with the reporter as to what happened to the story, the reporters would always say their editors killed the story. The reason given was always that they didn't want to "rock the boat" or something to that effect.

After 4 years and about a dozen press conferences, not one article or media story ever appeared on the subject of the review board's findings. As a result, most people do not even know what the JFK Act was. It was legislation signed into law by George Bush Sr. in 1992 to release all classified government files on the JFK Assasination.

My dad has spent a fortune at the national archives in Washington DC and he has boxes of these things all over his house. He is still not done reading through them even though the review board finished 5 years ago.

There are things such as transcripts of conversations between LBJ and Hoover discussing ways they can convince Earl Warren to head an investigative commission, but yet convince him not to do an investigation and instead have his report confirm the "lone assassin" theory.

There are FBI documents showing the FBI was warned a week before the assasination that "a militant group may try to assasinate president kennedy on his upcoming trip to dallas".

There are even documents (hundreds of them) showing Lee Harvey Oswald was an FBI informant and he met with an FBI agent in New Orleans about a week before the assasination. However, the notes about that meeting are missing and its noted that the FBI agent claimed he burned his notes after the meeting.

In all, there are thousands of CIA and FBI documents on Lee Harvey Oswald, and the majority of them are from before the JFK Assasination.

One of the interesting things is that in 1996, the review board called in the original autopsy doctors to testify again about the original autopsy. When showed pictures of the autopsy photographs from the Warren Commission report, every one of the doctors said those were fakes and looked nothing like the real photos they took. In addition, when shown copies of the autopsy report with their signatures, every one of them said that they signed a different autopsy report and that this "official" one was a changed and their signatures forged. My dad was present for all these hearings. He used to travel down to Washington about once per month for this stuff.

Overall, these released files were 10 times more shocking than the "Pentagon Papers" released in the early 1970s (do any of you remember that?)

Yet, the media killed every single story on any of this stuff. And these were not stories from unverified sources, as the source was actual declassified copies of these original documents. At these press conferences, the review board would always hand out copies of certain documents to the press.

The media is very controlled. The know what they can and cannot discuss. However, if there is enough pressure from the public and enough interest shown in a story, they will be forced to report it. That is how certain subjects such as the Iran/Contra scandal came to light. But remember that the press did not write about that until 3-5 years after it happened. Maybe the same will happen with 9/11. Nobody knows.

 

[Spencer]

Again:

But anyway, if you don't believe me then take me up on my challange and prove that I'm full of crap.

Why would I bother doing that…when everyone else on this thread has done it so ably?

I am simply pointing out that the idiocy of thinking that somehow the American media would actually "avoid" this story if LEGITIMATE.

 

[Spencer]

In response to



I disagree based on personal experience.

My dad was very involved with the JFK Act. He reads that sort of stuff as a hobby, but over the years he has become an expert on the subject of the JFK Assasination. He has been quoted in many books on the subject. During the 1990s, he testified in front of the congressional review board many times while he and others helped direct them to release many tens of thousands of classified documents on the subject. Many of the things released were things that would make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up.

Once every several months, the review board would call a press conference to reveal their latest findings. They would invite members from all the media and usually there were well over 100 reporters present for these press conferences. Several times my dad even offered to help a few of them write stories on the subject. However, every single time an article was written, it failed to appear in that particular newspaper. When my dad would inquire with the reporter as to what happened to the story, the reporters would always say their editors killed the story. The reason given was always that they didn't want to "rock the boat" or something to that effect.

After 4 years and about a dozen press conferences, not one article or media story ever appeared on the subject of the review board's findings. As a result, most people do not even know what the JFK Act was. It was legislation signed into law by George Bush Sr. in 1992 to release all classified government files on the JFK Assasination.

My dad has spent a fortune at the national archives in Washington DC and he has boxes of these things all over his house. He is still not done reading through them even though the review board finished 5 years ago.

There are things such as transcripts of conversations between LBJ and Hoover discussing ways they can convince Earl Warren to head an investigative commission, but yet convince him not to do an investigation and instead have his report confirm the "lone assassin" theory.

There are FBI documents showing the FBI was warned a week before the assasination that "a militant group may try to assasinate president kennedy on his upcoming trip to dallas".

There are even documents (hundreds of them) showing Lee Harvey Oswald was an FBI informant and he met with an FBI agent in New Orleans about a week before the assasination. However, the notes about that meeting are missing and its noted that the FBI agent claimed he burned his notes after the meeting.

In all, there are thousands of CIA and FBI documents on Lee Harvey Oswald, and the majority of them are from before the JFK Assasination.

One of the interesting things is that in 1996, the review board called in the original autopsy doctors to testify again about the original autopsy. When showed pictures of the autopsy photographs from the Warren Commission report, every one of the doctors said those were fakes and looked nothing like the real photos they took. In addition, when shown copies of the autopsy report with their signatures, every one of them said that they signed a different autopsy report and that this "official" one was a changed and their signatures forged. My dad was present for all these hearings. He used to travel down to Washington about once per month for this stuff.

Overall, these released files were 10 times more shocking than the "Pentagon Papers" released in the early 1970s (do any of you remember that?)

Yet, the media killed every single story on any of this stuff. And these were not stories from unverified sources, as the source was actual declassified copies of these original documents. At these press conferences, the review board would always hand out copies of certain documents to the press.

The media is very controlled. The know what they can and cannot discuss. However, if there is enough pressure from the public and enough interest shown in a story, they will be forced to report it. That is how certain subjects such as the Iran/Contra scandal came to light. But remember that the press did not write about that until 3-5 years after it happened. Maybe the same will happen with 9/11. Nobody knows.

Now I guess I understand. It's a kind of a harmless, somewhat eccentric, intergenerational hobby. Some people collect stamps; others apparently collect conspiracy theories.

I am now, like many of my peers, officially finished with this thread.

 

[Ponyboy]

But anyway, if you don't believe me then take me up on my challange and prove that I'm full of crap.

I'd go one step further and contend that no needs to prove you're full of crap, you do a more than excellent job yourself. What you need to do, before asking one more single question, is clean up the verbal diarhea you've spouted already. Seriously, do you lie awake thinking this crap up or is it some type of retarded gift?

 

[Eric5273]

Eric,

You have not answered Viper Driver's questions. You also have not responded to my point here:

Well, now I responded to your point there. So I ask you to respond to this point:

As is evidenced by the many CNN news clips in the recording below, there was 3 bombs in the Federal building in Oklahoma City. There was the one in the Rider truck that Tim McVeigh rented, and then 2 others were found in the building. If the media is not controled and they would do anything to be able to break a big story, then why no mention of these other 2 bombs when McVeigh pleaded guilty and said he acted alone? Obviously there had to be more conspirators who planted these other bombs inside the building. One of the bombs was found in the heating ducts. What is your explanation for this? Why did none of the major media sources ever mention the 2 other bombs after the day of the bombing? Isn't this a big story?

CNN Sound Clips

 

[Eric5273]

Why would I bother doing that...

You obviously wouldn't bother. People do not like to be shown to be hypocrites. If I was you, I wouldn't bother either.

 

[Sig]

BTW, I just want to say something here:

I didn't register for NSX Prime so I can discuss the 9/11 Attacks or if the Iraq war was necessary. I registered so I can discuss my new car. From the tone of this thread, I'm beginning to think some of you are not capable of this.

I thought these words were amusing the first time I read them, but after your most recent post..... they have become even more humorous. I believe your were calling someone else a hypocrite. Appropriate.... well you be the judge?

Hey pot, I think I hear the kettle calling...

 

[Viper Driver]

After a quick scan of yet another page of baloney from you Eric, I'm clicking on the "ignore" button. Congrats, you've just lost yet another person to have discussions with ANYWHERE on this forum. Get some help......MKULTRA? As if it wasn't already obvious, now I know you're full of it. You are as gullible as they come!

Adi-freakin'-os.

 

[JChoice]

It looks to me like picture E is just taken in a different light from a different angle than the rest of the pictures, but it doesn't even matter because even if it really is bin laden in the video there are other conspiracy theorists who think only the voices but not the video was faked, they can't even agree amongst themselves what the video really means or how it was faked. No matter how much the guy in the video looks or doesn't look like bin laden is also irrelevant because even if it was a dead-on match for other pictures of bin laden, then they would say it was a computer generated image of bin laden. They refuse to believe it because they don't want to, and there is no way to convince them otherwise.

I always found it odd that they decided to video tape this meeting - for no apparent reason and they left the tape in someone's house. Bin Laden is pretty damn good at hiding and probably wouldn't make a mistake like that. But, who knows.

In your post, you attack the "people" who would believe it is fake as stubborn when you are being just as stubborn in your position.

 

[dlongo]

I always found it odd that they decided to video tape this meeting - .....


In your post, you attack the "people" who would believe it is fake as stubborn when you are being just as stubborn in your position.

I'm just saying that the authenticity of the confession is not worth arguing, because it cannot be proven either way at this time. I do not believe the video by itself is enough to convict bin laden in a court of law, so I don't point to it as proof of his guilt.

Do you think there is anything about the video that proves the US government is fabricating evidence?

 

[Eric5273]

Do you think there is anything about the video that proves the US government is fabricating evidence?

Nope. The government has never fabricated any evidence as far as I'm aware. They simply have not given any evidence at all. The have just continued to say he is guilty over and over but have given no reason how they know this.