NSX is out. HSC will come...next year...

[Tom Larkins]

Just my wacko thoughts.I still believe we will see hsczilla :tongue:

What he said, I have a wacko thought that my dealer is gonna call next spring of 06 and say..

"You remember the waiting list for the HSC we put you on back in 04. Well guess what, its time has come and you can have it this fall and its a V8 all wheel drive w/500hp"

Wacko, yeah but why worry about it until its real.

 

[HONDA]

300hp at 2000 pounds means .15hp/lb
thats faster than the ferrari 360 and about the same as the upcomming z06

if they can make a 2100lb pound car in 1990(crx) with low tech materals why can't they make one thats 2000lb today that has a chassis thats as strong as the current nsx?

if its 300hp 3000lb ..it will just be a more expensive s2000 replacement
if its 300hp 2000lb ..it will be the nsx replacement

and if its any heavier it will have more hp...they have the technology to make a 950hp 3.0L race engine

160hp 1.6L in 1989
and the nsx engine in 1990

why would they make a 3.0L that only makes 300hp unless its perfectly matched for its 2000lb car

 

[ChrisK]

The optimist in me, however, wonders why they're involved in the most expensive form of motorsport. Afterall, toward the tail-end of their run in the late 80s, the NSX was introduced. And enthusiasts of the company could rejoice with them. One would think that logically, they don't race 19,000 rpm engines to promote Civics and Accords. Because, Lord knows, 99.99% of buyers of these cars could care less about how they did versus Ferrari or Renault on 18 Sunday afternoons of the year.
.

You have a good point here. I too think Honda is in F1 because they still have a core passion for racing and most people there want to build such a car like a new NSX. Take a look at what philosophy Honda/BAR has adopted for this years season. It has been said that Honda is looking for podium finishes and wins. That is why they said they want to put the strongest engine in the field and worry about reliability later. It sounds like a dump move especially since the had DNFs for the first 3 races, but it makes you wonder. Like you said, the public doesn't know anything about Contructors Championships or Drivers Championships. The better marketing is saying they won XX amount of times in F1 or showing their drivers standing on the podium more times than not. Why would Honda adopt this strategy unless they wanted to hype up something up their sleeve (Like the HSC)?

 

[ChrisK]

Don;t get me wrong, I would LOVE to see a Honda V8, but I think the odds of it happening are pretty slim. Tell me which one of these makes more sense for Honda to develop a V8 for:

New Ridgeline pickup - IMO, needs it to compete with Toyota, Nissan, etc.
New RL luxury - IMO, needs it to be competitive with Lexus, BMW.
New HSC / NSX - We'd all love it, sports cars do not seem Honda's priority.



The talent is still there, the passion is still there, but the direction at Honda no longer seems to be "An Eternal Sportsmind for You."

I am alone with this?

This is a good point. If Honda makes a V8 (Which I believe they will) where are they going to put it? I'm not sure if it was you or someone else that posted in this long topic, but Honda puts a variation of the same engine in many of its cars. The RL shares the same basic engine as the Accord. Now, if Honda is forced to develope a V8 for their SUV and trucks, it makes perfect sense givin their history that they will put a variation of that engine in their luxury car, and even in their sports car if the build one. After all, the C block NSX in a way started its roots from the C25 in the Legend back in 1986. I would think it would be the same where they just heavily tweak whatever V8 used in their trucks and put it in their sports car.

We all heard Honda wants to be the "Green" car company and maybe that is why lately they dropped the HSC last year and went into the direction they were headed. However, I think they have had a big change in direction once again because quite frankly it wasn't working. Look at their largerst competitor Toyota/Lexus? Lexus is coming out with engines that have more power and much better fuel economy. Lexus is bringing out a lot of hybrids. They have the Hybrid RX400H, they will put a hybrid in the Highlander and Camry, they are putting a hybrid on the GS called the GS350H, they have the Pruis. Not only is Lexus beating Acura/Honda to the punch, Lexus is even planning on releasing their 500HP V10 LF-A. Then look at the recent media reports on how Honda is loosing the Fast and the Furious crowed strong hold that they used to have with the Integra/RSX and Civic. No longer are the young buyers of their bread and butter cars wanting and willing to buy. Everyone in that market is moving to Toyota, Scion, and god forbid Ford Focus. Now Chevy has the Colbalt and Dodge still has the Neon SRT-4. The Camry is out selling the Accord. The GS300 is still out selling the RL even if I personally think the RL is the better car. I believe Honda recognizes this and changed their direction and maybe that is why they are thinking of releasing the HSC again. If Lexus really does bring out the LF-A and Acura has nothing they will surely fall way behind and never be able to catch up to Toyota/Lexus. It is one thing to stand behind your beliefs to make reliable environmetally concious cars, but if you are loosing sales because of it (Which I believe Honda is struggling right now, at least against Toyota/Lexus) you have to step up to the game with everyone else.

 

[White92]

This is a good point. If Honda makes a V8 (Which I believe they will) where are they going to put it? I'm not sure if it was you or someone else that posted in this long topic, but Honda puts a variation of the same engine in many of its cars. The RL shares the same basic engine as the Accord. Now, if Honda is forced to develope a V8 for their SUV and trucks, it makes perfect sense givin their history that they will put a variation of that engine in their luxury car, and even in their sports car if the build one. After all, the C block NSX in a way started its roots from the C25 in the Legend back in 1986. I would think it would be the same where they just heavily tweak whatever V8 used in their trucks and put it in their sports car.

Yes, but would you really want a tweaked version of the same V-8 truck engine? I can already hear the press laughing at the fact that the new halo car from Honda has a truck engine in it. Even if the car blows everything else out of the water, they will still take jabs at that. I won't care though as long as the car performs and lives up to it's heritage.

If Honda does jump into the V-8 realm, do you think they'll make 2 completely different V-8 engines? One for the SUV's and another for it's sports cars? I don't see it happening. What do you guys think?

 

[NSX-Racer]

Why or how is the German auto press more informed or enlightened than ours?

I guess you mean the middle european press (some of the articles are from swiss and dutch papers and the swiss and dutch people don't like to be seen as germans :wink: ). The reason I suspect is that the first source was a Manager from Honda Germany (quoted on NSX Prime here at 04/25) and this rumour (or fact) spreaded from Offenbach in circles.

 

[Cartoon]

i think it will still be another few years till the HSC is out there, n i also think honda australia will not offer it to us either.
Most car manufactors dont offer the high performance cars over here, the

mits EVO was only jst offered over what 8 generations.
skylines have been unaviable since the early 90's

n we only get a hand full of hondas as it is,
NSX, Integra, Civic, Jazz, CRV, MDX, Accord n thats about it oh n the S2K.

there are so many more. the motor sector of australia is jst all wrong so i highly doubt we will ever see a HSC over here
if we do it will be a privet import that some how got compilance cause theu guy was rich cause the goverment will prob make another rule to stop gray imports.

To you that actually get to see the HSC one day, i dun think it will be V8, i doubt it will have much more than 300hp might get 350max, expecting the body to be different again to was the last disply of it was. n i jst think it will be like most of honda's new cars. jst not wanted by enthusists. there cars r looking crappy n there is little performance comming form honda.

Jst dissapointed as i have allways loved hondas n loved the way the older
b, h, and c motors all had a high performance version producing great power.

All in all i jst gotta say im not expecting to much from them in the next 2 years

 

[White92]

Whatever they do, I hope they make it front wheel drive.

 

[NSX-Racer]

Whatever they do, I hope they make it front wheel drive.

Good joke! :biggrin:

 

[len3.8]

They should put Mugen's 500HP V8 in the HSC.
Based on the motor that Will be used in the 24HRS of Lemans. The same motor Shown in the "Legend Max" at the Tokyo Auto show. 500HP NA.

 

[smhrednsx91]

Spoke to an Acura dealer a week ago concerning whether they still had a 2005 nsx in stock. I've been thinking about upgrading my 91 to an 05. He told me that they would not be recieving any more nsx's and that the next generation (whatever it's called) will be available in 06 and will NOT be hand built as is the current NSX. IMO (based on this info and the fact that Honda has not kept pace with the compition) the HSC will be a massed produced, steel body, V6, and maybe good-looking auto, competing with the 350z, Vette, Porsche boxster, etc. After all this is a much larger market than the "supercar" market (>100k$) and Acura does not have a model that competes at this level. One last note why would Honda make a "Super Car" and sell it for < $150k.

 

[effer]

...and will NOT be hand built as is the current NSX. IMO (based on this info and the fact that Honda has not kept pace with the compition) the HSC will be a massed produced, steel body, V6, and maybe good-looking auto, competing with the 350z, Vette, Porsche boxster, etc.

If you are right, this will KILL the actual NSX value because a 300hp V6 HSC will be at least much cheaper while better...

Could you imagine what would happen if Honda sells a new HSC at the price of a 350Z?????

But I do believe that it will be a supercar... more than 400 hp made of Al and C body...

My guess: 1275 kg, 475 hp, V6 3,5L ( or first V8 4L ).

 

[Gerard van Santen]

If you are right, this will KILL the actual NSX value because a 300hp V6 HSC will be at least much cheaper while better....

I don't think so. It will actually raise the value of the NSX. You must not measure the value of the NSX only with performance. If it is true what you are suggesting, the NSX will be the only all aluminum Honda supercar ever built. That fact alone among rarety and other specific facts will raise the value of the NSX. Given the time of introduction, with the NSX a milestone was reached in supercars history. A new HSC will not change that :wink:

 

[gheba_nsx]

That is a good point Gerard!

It worked for old Alfas, Lancia, Ferraris... that were slower, worse, outdated vs the newer model. But the price was not affected...

Even the S600 had that effect. The problem is whether the NSX is enough low production and it will create this long lasting effect on the enthusiasts...

 

[ChrisK]

Yes, but would you really want a tweaked version of the same V-8 truck engine? I can already hear the press laughing at the fact that the new halo car from Honda has a truck engine in it. Even if the car blows everything else out of the water, they will still take jabs at that. I won't care though as long as the car performs and lives up to it's heritage.

If Honda does jump into the V-8 realm, do you think they'll make 2 completely different V-8 engines? One for the SUV's and another for it's sports cars? I don't see it happening. What do you guys think?

Well, personally I don't mind if the V8 has roots as a truck engine or not. If it is modified enough to get the job done I'm okay with it.

Now, let's take a look at things from a different angle. We all know that F1 rules can change at any moment so we need to take these things with a grain of salt. However, the proposed V8 engine rule for 2006 has some interesting things coming from it. Here is a news article posted from a GP website about Honda's V8.

From grandprix.com
***********************************
Honda V8 runs at Mugello

The British American Racing test last week at Mugello resulted in the BAR-Hondas going fastest and completing an impressive number of laps. Officially the team was evaluating "further aerodynamic upgrades for the Spanish Grand Prix, as well as various tyre programmes and the introduction of the latest specification engines from Honda".

What they did not say was that the latest specification engines were the V8 engines for 2006.

The engine was fitted into a new prototype chassis which was run by Anthony Davidson and Enrique Bernoldi. Davidson completed a record test distance for the team over one day and also set the fastest time of the day 1m20.652s, two one-hundreths ahead of Takuma Sato and ahead of the Ferraris of Rubens Barrichello and Michael Schumacher. On the second day Bernoldi completed 151 laps with the car.
************************************

What this tells me is that Honda obviously is working on new race V8 engines (Not just IRL) and this could be a great marketing opportunity to put a street version of their F1 engine into a new Honda/Acura sports car. Now, we are not just talking about a 3rd party company like the Mugun V8, but we are talking about a real V8 produced by Honda (Even if it is a race motor).

Put all of this seamingly unrelated issues together like Toyota/Lexus bringing out their V10 super car, Honda's sliding sales with performance minded youth, Honda's bread and butter cars loosing ground to Toyota and others. It makes for a good case that Honda is doing something radical to protect their long term interest. Right now that "Green" car company image wont fly anymore since Toyota is appearing to be more "Green" than Honda at the moment today. Unless Honda does something to regain the edge, they will be playing catch up to Toyota and may never really catch them up at all.

Also, If we are to believe the "NSX Book" information (This was a book that had all sorts of articles and information about the NSX from prototype to about 1999 I believe) it stated that there were V10, V8, and even V6 Turbo versions along side the V6 and V6 VTEC final version of real working prototype NSXs. I don't think a V8 is totally out of Honda's philosophy at all. I think they use what works and gets the job done. By today's stadards though, a V8 or V10 get's the job done when it comes to super cars.

 

[White92]

Maybe that's why the whole HSC program kind of stumbled a little bit after it was introduced. Maybe Honda found out after the fact that the new V-8 regulations were coming about for the future race season. So Honda temporarilily put the HSC on the back burner to develop that engine and then make a production version of it for the HSC?!

 

[MarkB]

...So Honda temporarilily put the HSC on the back burner to develop that engine and then make a production version of it for the HSC?!

Don't we all wish.

 

[Bobolinski]

Sounds like grabbing one of the last 05 cars on their lease special might be a decent investment. Unless the new Honda car is hand built and not mass produced, the current NSX will increase in value.Hell if I wanted a Z or a Supra or a Vette I would have bought one.BTW go see what a loaded Vette convrt leases for with min drive offs.Thank you Honda

 

[White92]

Don't we all wish.

I know I wish it were true. And maybe it's just me, but it doesn't sound too crazy. When the HSC was first introduce. Some pretty large threats, statements, whatever were made directly from Honda. Maybe they realized they needed a new engine to back those up.

 

[White92]

Sounds like grabbing one of the last 05 cars on their lease special might be a decent investment. Unless the new Honda car is hand built and not mass produced, the current NSX will increase in value.Hell if I wanted a Z or a Supra or a Vette I would have bought one.BTW go see what a loaded Vette convrt leases for with min drive offs.Thank you Honda

Personally, I don't see the new Honda being handbuilt unless the car really is a true supercar for well over $100k. It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[foxy-abby]

Here's hoping the new NSX/HSC is handbuilt and over $100k. Not that I can afford it, but I love driving a unique car that you only see a few times a year. I don't want a 911, Vette, M3, etc. I'm willing to wait a few years till I save up the $. I know Honda would love to sell thousands of them, but I personlly think it ruins the experience. Give me something special -- handbuilt, 400hp+, 10k rpm, AL and C, F1 tech, $100-120k -- and I'll buy one is 3 years.
Jesse

 

[whiteNSXs]

This HSC does not look bad. Trim out the racing stuffs, you got a pretty curvy road car. I'll bite.
Steve

 

[chumch]

didn't honda move production of the NSX from Tochigi to another plant? Is the old plant sitting empty and dormant? Could they be tooling it for the new car?

 

[CJB]

Here's hoping the new NSX/HSC is handbuilt and over $100k. Not that I can afford it, but I love driving a unique car that you only see a few times a year. I don't want a 911, Vette, M3, etc. I'm willing to wait a few years till I save up the $. I know Honda would love to sell thousands of them, but I personlly think it ruins the experience. Give me something special -- handbuilt, 400hp+, 10k rpm, AL and C, F1 tech, $100-120k -- and I'll buy one is 3 years.
Jesse

But dont go to South Beach Miami, I just got back there and I saw at least 15 Bentley GTs, a couple of Rolce Royce, Ferrari 360s and F430 , Maserati Quatro and an Enzo. I thought for a moment that my dream came true. Those guys there are ballers. I wish I had my camera when that Enzo passed by...and I saw Spike Lee walking on Washington Drive or Street(I forgot), P. Diddy was at Crobar Friday night.

 

[NSX-Racer]

didn't honda move production of the NSX from Tochigi to another plant? Is the old plant sitting empty and dormant? Could they be tooling it for the new car?

AFAIK NSX, S 2000 production moved to Suzuka und Tochigi is now just a R&D center without production line.