haha true, the 570GT looks better for sure
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NSX NC1 - Track Review Laguna Seca - Randy Pobst
- Thread starter RYU
- Start date
I think that is a compelling argument.
Also, can someone comment on the fact that the white car (a pre-production model) had Randy fighting oversteer the whole time and struggled to even brake the car while turning (trail braking?) while Robinson in a red car (presumably a production model) seemed very steady and was not on the knife edge???
I don't think we can assume that Randy was just getting more out of the car since the relative times were not very good.
I've watched that lap several times. There's no doubt about the tendency to over-steer, and that caused Probst to avoid trail-braking, and also back off putting the power on early out of the corners. Other reviewers have commented conversely - on stability under trail-braking and ability to apply power out of corners earlier. Clearly then Probst must have been lapping with the stability controls disabled. Ok I'm a total track rookie, but for me it begs the question whether the car would have been quicker with the nannies left on.
Had some buddies catch you on film
[MENTION=32457]chrisn[/MENTION]
[MENTION=32457]chrisn[/MENTION]
Haha. Yep.. That's me. I put some temporary clear bra stuff on the front-- looks like saran wrap. Worked well, but did get one ding to the hood. I guess I need to get some touch up paint before getting Xpel wrap.
I should have some "action" photos in a few days that I will share.
I should have some "action" photos in a few days that I will share.
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From what I thought I heard and read, both MT and C&D had the car in track mode with all the nannies off. Car and Driver definitely said that it was faster that way.
So again, the two NSXs tested seem to have different personalities on the track with the red one being much smoother and apparently faster, relative to its peers. You can especially tell in the first 10 seconds of Randy's track footage as he is approaching the first turn, he is unable to keep it tracking straight under braking (and later complained about it). Aaron on the other hand has no issues and even has his pinkies are in the air like he's sipping tea!!! See for yourself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwD-WeY6Ivs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYVkAQ8dKYY
Could these two cars have been set up completely differently?
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Not sure if Jon is your FB friend but the video of him chasing you is pretty badass. I can share it on FB too.
If BOTH cars are the onese with serial no. 0000 they are in fact still not yet standard production cars.
I wonder if Honda is still tweaking the cars even if they are in (small) production now. If so, having different setups in different cars would make sense.
I don't think that in this stage, Honda would deliver a car for a testdrive that had not been thoroughly looked over.
As far as performances goes, it is surprising that in one video the difference between the NSX and the R8V10+ is a 6 seconds win for the NSX and in the other, the R8 is definately faster. Could this be to different tires?
In both cases, the 570S seems to be the faster car.
Looks to me that if Honda would have extracted another 40-50 HP from the ICE engine, the balance might tip over to the NSX.
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To be honest, even though the NSX is by no means slow, I more or less expected the SH-AWD to make a bigger difference.
I can understand the NSX woul be slower than other cars on the long straights because it that case it's just the V6 engine that has to do all the work.
But I would REALLY like to see cornering speeds and corner-exit speeds in all corners compared with other cars with <100 mph speeds.
If the SH-AWD is working as advertised, that's where you would see the gains.
fastaussie
Suspended
for a professional driver, the car is never quicker with the stability controls left on. that's why professional drivers are professionals...
you can't compare a car at two different tracks, with two different drivers, and vastly different weather conditions on opposite ends of the country. you guys are really reaching. there are no excuses, the NSX just isn't as good as some of its peers...
bingo... :wink:
I seriously doubt that adding 50HP would help the NSX achieve laptimes comparable to the R8 or the 570S. You can see the Motor Trend Video's, the 570S attains substantially higher speed going into T2 at Laguna, same goes at the top of the hill on T6, same as going into T7. The mid corner as well as corner exit speeds of the NSX is nothing to write home about, at that point it's not a function of the available HP, more along the lines of available traction/grip for the car to be able to provide power to the ground. Some of it comes down to physics, as Stuntman alluded earlier the NSX 2.0 seems to be under tired given the weight of the car, adding more tire width usually ends up numbing down the steering feel as well as responsiveness, so it's all a compromise. Same goes with allowing for more aggressive alignment specs, the car might handle better but would not be ideal for a car that people will DD.
In the end the NSX 2.0 is a vehicle that is compromised from the get go, no real focus besides being a Halo car that serves as a demo for the Honda engineers to play around with.
McLaren seems to finally have been able to get the right formula, minimum weight, no active suspension crap and no hybrid crap.
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The price for the grand daddy GTR Nismo edition is... $175k. Yowzers
You guys were rippin it
I don't know how to post a FB video here that is shared with permissions. PM me and I can add you on FB if you're on the platform
Well, if all the eletric gadget won't work there is only ONE thing left to do:
Take an old, obsolete GEN 1 NSX and replace the C32A/B with at least the new 3.5L 500HP ICE engine from the 2nd Generation.
If all that is needed (if there was any doubt) is a good chassis, good suspension and a good setup, then our old, referred NSX should be able to do quite will with some modern stuff added.
(Of course, this is not a serious option as the new engine would not fit.
But it makes you wonder how the first Gen NSX would do if it would be modified with some of that latest damper & tire-technology combined with an engine that is comparable in power to what modern supercars have.)
Yep. More power would help in the quarter mile times and a bit on a course like VIR-Grand East but at Laguna it would not have made a ton of difference IMO.
I don't think it lacked focus, I think the focus was on the wrong thing. For over a decade now Acura has been trying to push SH-AWD as the flagship technology of the brand. Going forward they wanted to eSH-AWD to be a major component of the future of the brand, so from the start they decided to make the NSX as the showcase for that. So the focus was to show how eSH-AWD can improve performance and provide a new driving experience.
We all see now that while they have succeeded in delivering a unique driving experience with the torque-fill and electric torque vectoring, the weight penalty is just too great. Doesn't bode well for future Honda/Acura models going eSH-AWD. I have to wonder if they just used the IMU and got rid of the front motors while bumping up the ICE output, if they could make something significantly faster. That might be the best use of e-motors to aid performance for the time being.
To me it's just that McLaren built the right car for the segment they were aiming for. The active suspension and active aero will almost certainly be a part of the P14 package and will allow that car to put the smack down on all comers in its segment. I don't think it'll be a hybrid though, and I imagine it will be because they don't think the technology provides enough benefit (in proportion to the cost/weight) to include it at the moment.
Not the same cars.
Are you suggesting that a straight on one track is not comparable to a straight on another track? Or are you suggesting it was humidity that caused the LL NSX to be rock stable under braking? Or did the Pacific Time Zone make the car unstable?
Or are you suggesting that Randy is not assessing the car accurately?
I thought you, as a top-level driver, would provide a good analysis of why the two cars are behaving so differently both as evidenced by the videos and as corroborated by the testimonies of the drivers. Unfortunately, your quick dismissal seems to play better into your narrative.
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Would you call the 918 compromised? If you go to youtube and look at salomondrin's videos. He is constantly pitting every car he can find against the 918 and nothing can take it. Nothing. And a big piece of its success is its stability in the corners and its unmatched thrust out of them. The NSX is taking the same approach but with a twist (get it?). And where do you think this is going to end up as battery technology develops? Honda/Acura is at the forefront or at least in the mix with Porsche, McLaren, and Ferrari.
Just look at the skill levels between the drivers. Pobst is an experienced professional level driver whereas the C&D driver on the NSX's Lightning Lap looked like maybe an Advanced HPDE driver. Then consider that on the Lightning Lap stability control may have been left on, and there's your difference.
No, that's not it. I have the Lightning Lap issue of Car and Driver which states: "First things first: Switch everything off. Unlike some other cars here with more-transparent track modes, the NSX's stability control is not yet smarter than a good driver."
And regarding the difference in the driver's skill levels, how does that explain Randy's constant adjustment to steer the car as he approaches the first turn? Look at the track and the steering wheel angle, you can see he is still going straight as he is braking and at that moment, he is working very hard - not turning - just working to go straight under braking.
And again, this seems to correspond with his assessment after the lap: "The car likes to have the vast majority of its braking done straight. You don't want to trail brake the car heavily."
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The MT car had Trofeo R tires. I can't remember what the LL car was equipped with.
LL had the same.
Yes, the 918 is compromised as well, just like the P1. Depending on the track the 918 won't be able to generate 2 laps back to back with similar optimum laptimes due to the batteries not been completely charged, same goes with the P1. Check out the details of the Motor Trend comparo between the 918 and the P1 that was done at Laguna that highlighted some of the issues.
Something else to remember is that the implementation of the drivetrain on the front axle of the 918 is different than the NSX2.0, the 918 does have torque vectoring both on the front axle as well as the rear axle, the front axle uses brake based torque vectoring, in theory the 918 can provide 125hp worth of drive to the outside front wheel during cornering IIRC, the NSX is limited to substantially less, what that particular electric motor is capable of providing.
The issue that I have with Honda is that they decided to force feed everyone with their eSH-AWD.
Just like others have alluded, if Honda/Acura had decided to provide a non Hybrid/RWD version of the NSX2.0 alongside the Hybrid eSH-AWD version the general reception might have been better.
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