NSXPrime Memer problem!

[EDRNSX1]

Ill go MUCH more into after i hear back today from Paypal, but long story short i have been looking for a set of wheels for my NSX while i order/wait for the Advans i was going to order. I came across an ad on here

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115746&highlight=roja


the guy had exactly what i needed, i love the look of the RO_Ja and for the money not bad deal. As you can see, they are listed as 18x8 and 19x10...i have tires for those anyways and car set up (corner balanced/lowered/etc) for these sizes that came off. I thought "PERFECT" so i pm'd him on here and asked if still available. He replied "yes and lowered price to $1,350" i thanked him but said i was $50 short (stupid amount i know but upcoming wedding is killing my personal accounts) He said "no problem, ill paypal you $1,300 fo them" i said HUGE THANKS! I was excited. I got the paypal notice, and IN DESCRIPTION he posted "18x8" and 19x10" wheels, new in box" So i went to pay...of course i never use paypal since i hate ebay..i was not aware of the 3-5 day delay when you transfer. I did this on a tuesday late afternoon...so emailed him my apologies for not knowing how paypal worked 100% and it was going to be a few days. He said "no problem, let me know" So i checked everyday and it was to be available on friday (or as paypal later explained.."on OR ABOUT" friday) well friday nothing..wtf?? my $$ was out of my checking account tues...i fought paypal all weekend, nothing i could do. I had on monday a paypal rep even offer to call the seller and explain it was paypals delay.

Monday, i paypaled the money. He got it. He then said "sending them out, shot me your address" i did in TWO emails, clearly stating "BE SURE to send to my SHOP address and gave it too him" its even on my paypal account as a confirmed address. I wanted this cause then i could sign for them (actually protects him too) but then i find out he sent to my house! aggg....30 mins away, NO one home to sign, and Fedex will not tell me when, but it will just throw them on porch!!! yeah, NICE and SECURE not!

I call my fiance who works closer to home, she agreed to take a longer lunch and hang out at home waiting for them...they came in and she called to tell me. I was very excited. This time of year (we run a HUGE race team and our season starts this month) i work 12-15hr days....so i did not get home till 11pm that night...i open boxes like a 5 year old on xmas....wait...WTF! they are ALL 18" WHEELS! I KNOW what 18" is! I then look at the wheels...SURE ENOUGH STAMPED 18x8 and 18x10 on the rims themselves...i even stumble around house at midnight to get a tape measure to make sure im not too tired to believe this! YEP...18x10' rears!

Long story short, i instantly email him the problem. His first email back "Eric they are 19" your not measuring right" I then go back and forth with him saying "DUDE, i build race bikes for a living, im not an idiot, and they not only measure 18" but are STAMPED FROM ROJA 18" on them" i then send him over 20 pics of them next to a set of 19" rears i have, and even on 19 and 18" tires to show how they are NOT RIGHT!

Finally, he sends me an email 'ill call you later, i may have a solution" (i have ALL His emails) but then we played phone tag. I apologized to him for this, but i basically live on the dyno and you cant just hop off a bike, shut down ventilation system, etc for a phone call always. My crew knows when im in there, NO CALLS...i then played phone/email tag and finally said "Dude, if you dont refund my money OR send me 2 new 19x10" rear wheels, ill have to contact attorney and paypal and ill post up on prime even"

He then threatened to sue me if i posted this up on the prime forum. Well, here it is!

Dan Grayson, you sir lied, posted something up wrongly, then sold me them knowing they were not 19" and have made NO attempt to refund me or even get the CORRECT WHEELS to me!

SO, fellow prime members....WTF would you have done differently or do now? I love this group of owners, having been a 5 time M3 owner i HATED the bmw forums/people while im on my 2nd NSX i have mostly great experiences on here and those i meet with the NSX.

Thanks guys, im curious to see what you think. Im going to post his ad on here too incase he decides to now change (even though i sent paypal the emails, ad, etc)

ERIC


************************************************************** AD *********************************************
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115746&highlight=roja

I have one set of Roja Formula 7 Wheels, with Gunmetal centers, for sale. These wheels are new and have never been mounted with tires. Sizes are as follows:

Rear - 19 x 10 / 45mm offset
Front - 18 x 8 / 45mm offset

I did test-fit one front wheel on my stock 2001 NSX and it did clear the caliper, but it was very close. I would recommend using a 3mm spacer just on the front, as the rears fit just fine. These wheels definitely would not work with a BBK.

The price is $1,500 firm and includes FedEx Ground shipping within the United States. (I will post photos by the end of the week.
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[synth19]

If paypal sides in your favor, I believe he has to have a sufficient amount of money in his paypal account in order for you to get refunded. If he is a true scammer, then most likely he's moved all his money out of his paypal account. This is what happened to me. Luckily, I payed with my CC, so my CC company took care of me. Paypal acknowledged I was right and scammed, they just pretty much told me I was SOL. I just hoped you payed via your CC. When dealing with people I don't know, I always switch my payment method to credit card (from the default) due to issues like this.

 

[dgrayson]

If paypal sides in your favor, I believe he has to have a sufficient amount of money in his paypal account in order for you to get refunded. If he is a true scammer, then most likely he's moved all his money out of his paypal account. This is what happened to me. Luckily, I payed with my CC, so my CC company took care of me. Paypal acknowledged I was right and scammed, they just pretty much told me I was SOL. I just hoped you payed via your CC. When dealing with people I don't know, I always switch my payment method to credit card (from the default) due to issues like this.

I would like to respond to the allegations made by the 'buyer'................

Below is the response I received from PayPal on March 3, 2009. As everyone can see, PayPal has clearly stated in this response that they are NOT going to investigate this matter. Why...............because I clearly provided what I said I would to the buyer.

Here's PayPal's Response:

"Your buyer has chosen to escalate this dispute to a PayPal claim. By ending communication with you and escalating to a claim, the buyer is asking PayPal to investigate the case and decide the outcome. As part of our investigation, PayPal reviewed any communication you may have had with the buyer in the Resolution Center

We have received a complaint from a buyer who stated that merchandise you sent them did not match your original description. The buyer is disputing the quality of goods associated with the transaction detailed below.

As you may already be aware, PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy applies only to the shipment of goods and not to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods received through an eBay transaction. Therefore, we will not conduct an investigation into this matter at this time.

We do, however, reserve the right to begin an investigation within 180 days if we determine it is necessary."

Now, let me formally WARN the 'buyer and NSX Prime. Should the buyer continue to post further allegations and slanderous / libelous statements about me, this will cause further problems for the buyer AND NSX Prime for hosting such 'crap'. And, quite frankly, I have the cashflow to back it up.

The buyer agreed to buy what was listed in my description of the items. He delayed payment, with every kind of excuse under the sun, and I was extremely accommodating to him during this period of excuses. There was no 'return' policy or 'written warranty' policy listed in my ad. It is NOT my problem if the buyer purchased something that he does not like, as I am not a 'retail store'.

The buyer received the items in my ad......................end of freakin' story!

Mr. Moderator, please remove this thread immediately before NSX Prime possibly becomes part of litigation that will ensue should the buyer keep using your forum to slander me.

Thanks,

DG

 

[dgrayson]

Re: New NSX Owner in NC!

Now, it's my turn to respond to this 'buyer'........................

PayPal rendered a decision on this on March 2, 2009. Here is the email I received from them AND I have highlighted the important parts in 'bold type' so the 'buyer' can get a clear understanding. Evidently, the buyer can't read..................

"Resolution of Buyer Complaint: Case #PP-645-428-xxx"

"Your buyer has chosen to escalate this dispute to a PayPal claim. By ending communication with you and escalating to a claim, the buyer is asking PayPal to investigate the case and decide the outcome. As part of our investigation, PayPal reviewed any communication you may have had with the buyer in the Resolution Center

We have received a complaint from a buyer who stated that merchandise you sent them did not match your original description. The buyer is disputing the quality of goods associated with the transaction detailed below.

As you may already be aware, PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy applies only
to the shipment of goods and not to complaints about the attributes or
quality of goods received through an eBay transaction. Therefore, we will
not conduct an investigation into this matter at this time."

Hmmmm, no need to conduct an investigation? That's right, as the buyer agreed to purchase and did receive the items listed in my ad. There was no written or implied warranty and no 'return policy' in my ad. The buyer just simply purchased the items, evidently did not like them, and has now chose to harass me about it. I am not a RETAIL STORE!

He received the items during the first week in February and waited until March to file a complaint? That's a little suspicious, wouldn't you think? If I did not receive what someone described, I would take action right away. Oh no, not this buyer.

For those of you that want to 'believe' his story (and that's exactly what it is, a 'story'), then sobeit. However, it's the 'end of story' on this one. If he wants to pursue the matter..............BRING IT ON! I have the cash and the 'attitude' to back it up.

DG :biggrin:

 

[EDRNSX1]

Re: New NSX Owner in NC!

Now, it's my turn to respond to this 'buyer'........................

PayPal rendered a decision on this on March 2, 2009. Here is the email I received from them AND I have highlighted the important parts in 'bold type' so the 'buyer' can get a clear understanding. Evidently, the buyer can't read..................

"Resolution of Buyer Complaint: Case #PP-645-428-xxx"

"Your buyer has chosen to escalate this dispute to a PayPal claim. By ending communication with you and escalating to a claim, the buyer is asking PayPal to investigate the case and decide the outcome. As part of our investigation, PayPal reviewed any communication you may have had with the buyer in the Resolution Center

We have received a complaint from a buyer who stated that merchandise you sent them did not match your original description. The buyer is disputing the quality of goods associated with the transaction detailed below.

As you may already be aware, PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy applies only
to the shipment of goods and not to complaints about the attributes or
quality of goods received through an eBay transaction. Therefore, we will
not conduct an investigation into this matter at this time."

Hmmmm, no need to conduct an investigation? That's right, as the buyer agreed to purchase and did receive the items listed in my ad. There was no written or implied warranty and no 'return policy' in my ad. The buyer just simply purchased the items, evidently did not like them, and has now chose to harass me about it. I am not a RETAIL STORE!

He received the items during the first week in February and waited until March to file a complaint? That's a little suspicious, wouldn't you think? If I did not receive what someone described, I would take action right away. Oh no, not this buyer.

For those of you that want to 'believe' his story (and that's exactly what it is, a 'story'), then sobeit. However, it's the 'end of story' on this one. If he wants to pursue the matter..............BRING IT ON! I have the cash and the 'attitude' to back it up.

DG :biggrin:

Thanks Dan you PROVED MY POINT! You RIPPED ANOTHER LONG TIME NSX OWNER OFF AND YOU DONT GIVE A SHIT! In end its my fault for not paying with CC so i could have got my money back. Your AD STATES STILL ON HERE 19x10" REARS...your paypal invoice STATED 19" REARS...as did you MANY EMAILS...however i got 4 18" wheels now.

I told you repeatedly i would wait for the RIGHT rear wheels, you even stated in an email "call me i have a solution for you" and then nothing. Just either get me the CORRECT wheels you listed/invoiced/said you sold me and we will be good.

Whose the DB now??

Stay Classy Dan Grayson.

My only point now is to SAVE ANOTHER NSX member from being RIPPED OFF from you!

 

[dgrayson]

Re: New NSX Owner in NC!

What is the 'buyer's' problem? PayPal already closed the complaint, as they sided with me. As I said before, that's the end of the story.

 

[dgrayson]

Re: New NSX Owner in NC!

EDRNSX1..........................you should pay close attention to the following paragraphs from an article on the web regarding 'defamation using a public blog / forum'.

Defamation

Defamation consists of the related torts of libel (written statements) or slander (oral statements), which involve a false statement tending to injure the reputation of another. We briefly touched on this in the November 1997 column, Legal Aspects of the Internet.


The Internet is informal and instantaneous, and has numerous outlets for publicly expressing opinions. These characteristics allow users to make defamatory remarks that they may otherwise be incapable of making. Bulletin boards, mailing lists, forums, newsgroups, and even e-mail are subject to the laws of defamation.

You can be sued for libel if another person can prove that you have distributed defamatory statements about them in a public area. The statements need not be distributed to a large group of people, even if one person aside from the plaintiff and defendant sees the defamatory statement it can be considered libel.

Any statements that may damage a reputation or name with false information are considered libelous remarks. The burden of proof is on the plaintiff to prove that the statements in question are false. The defendant does not need to prove that the remarks are true.
Libelous remarks

Let's say that you receive a shipment from your parts supplier and numerous items appear to be missing. You are so mad that you immediately go and post a negative remark on a Web bulletin board. You write that the company in question is incompetent and can't be trusted to ship orders correctly.

A few hours later you realize that this is only the first of two shipments, and there is a letter notifying you to expect another shipment with the rest of the items. Now you've posted an inaccurate message on a public bulletin board that will definitely not be good publicity for the company. If the company decides to pursue legal action, it will be easy for them to prove that your statement is false and defamatory. The best thing to do in this case might be to post another message and admit your error.

Here is the link for the entire article:

http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/jan98/net.htm

Now, this is my last post / reply regarding your frivilous allegations. If you continue to post additional derogatory statements about me, the next contact you will get is from my attorney. If you don't believe it, just try me and I will pursue this, no matter what the cost, just to prove my point.

Now, go cry on someone else's shoulder, as I don't think anyone here really cares!

 

[dgrayson]

Moderator ..................... please get in touch with me, as my attorney would like to have your contact information ASAP. You are allowing persons to make false allegations (see their listed thread) about me. PayPal had already sided with me. Please remove all threads regarding this issue immediately.

 

[topgunsnsx]

I saw the for sale ad also back in Dec and thought about buying the wheels. It ad clearly states 18x8 fronts and 19x10 rears. I don't see why this would be such a hard issue to resolve. They're either 19 rears or not. It should be stamped on the wheel somewhere. Post up some pics as proof.

 

[dgrayson]

Re: New NSX Owner in NC!

OK guys........we could all go on and debate this subject forever. The facts are, you guys don't know the whole story, and it's really nobody's business.

Should EDRNSX1 keep up his 'verbal BS', my attorney will make quick work of the issue. Just perform a little due diligence, and you will find that I don't back down from no one..............and I will spend whatever it takes to prove a point.

The wheels were 18" front and 19" rears, or at least that's what they were when they were shipped. I have three witnesses, including a tire specialist that has sold me 11 sets of custom wheels over the past four years.

As for you TopGunsNSX, when someone is located over 2,000 miles away, they could take a photo of the markings on any wheel and attempt to say its the one that was shipped to them. How would anyone really know, beyond doubt, that the wheels in question are actually the wheels that someone would photograph? The fact is..............they wouldn't.

The buyer received the correct wheels and then didn't like them. That, my friends, is his problem and not mine. I do not run a retail store, so I don't offer 'money-back guarantees', refunds, exchanges or warranties (implied or written).

Now, that's the end of the story!

 

[Mirroredshades]

It sounds more like an honest mistake to me. He only owned the car for about 10 minutes and I doubt he ever had the wheels on the car. Did you give him the opportunity to make it right?

 

[RSO 34]

Re: New NSX Owner in NC!

Somebody needs to play devil's advocate here.........

First of all, I am getting "involved" only as a personal favor to one of the moderators and have no interest in the transaction. By way of full disclosure, I admit that I am not a "fan" of EDRNSX1 as a result of an unrelated matter but I am putting that aside to suggest a way to get some type of true resolution here.

Dgrayson admits that he listed 18/19s and even posted photos of them, including the original boxes, in his "for sale" thread. That is the "best evidence" of what he represented as being for sale. Presumably, he would have the full resolution photos of those thumbnail shots which could be enlarged to show the detail of the wheels and the original boxes, including, most likely, identifying markings.

EDRNSX1 has stated he received 18/18s but has posted no photos of what he received. I am presuming that Dgrayson shipped them in the original boxes shown in the photos and it should be fairly simple to match the wheels and boxes if EDRNSX1 provides his own full resolution photos of what he received.

Giving both the benefit of the doubt for now, we have an admission by Dgrayson that he represented he was selling 18/19s but also that he shipped 18/19s. We have a claim by EDRNSX1 without photos to corroborate his claim. I am not saying that he did not receive 18/18s but without his photos we do not even have valid basis upon which to analyze his claim.

On the other hand, if we presume Dgrayson to be correct that EDRNSX1 simply wants to back out of the purchase we must also presume that EDRNSX1 has 18/18s that he is trying to return. If Dgrayson did ship 18/19s, then EDRNSX1 would had to have obtained, by some method, a set of 18 rears in order to be able to claim that is what Dgrayson shipped. That would result in EDRNSX1 purchasing/trading for a set of 18 rears giving him 6 wheels, including the original purported 19 rears, and forcing him to do multiple trades/sales just to get rid of a set of 18s that he claims were shipped to him by Dgrayson.

Clearly, that is a lot of effort on the part of EDRNSX1 just to get a refund for a set of wheels he would not want after buying them. It would have been much easier to just relist the set from Dgrayson and sell them on his own, perhaps for more even, here on Prime.

I would suggest that both sides provide access to full resolution photos, showing what was shipped and what was received, including original boxes. It should be fairly easy to match up markings and determine which version is more credible.

Until then, the veiled threats of "my lawyer will beat up your lawyer" is pure vitriolic b.s. so stop the nonsense and post the photos as proof of what was sent and what was received. I don't care who googles defamation and wants to escalate this to a fantasy lawsuit that will never materialize.

The failure of Paypal to investigate IS NOT "proof" of Dgrayson's claim. They simply investigate whether ANYTHING was shipped and not whether the goods as shipped were what was being represented as being for sale. Dgrayson has proven nothing by way of citing Paypal's internal investigative procedures so stop trying to use that as "proof" of the "truth" of the transaction.

Remember the KISS principle: "Keep it simple, Stupid".

This is a transaction for wheels. One side admits what was for sale and represents that is what he shipped. Let's see the photos from both and remove this from a he said/he said scenario to one in which rational persons may draw rational conclusions.

 

[dgrayson]

Re: New NSX Owner in NC!

You know, I don't know what fascinates you guys with a simple transaction. Now, let me say this once again...........if you don't think this can escalate into a defamation lawsuit, just keep going. TELL THE MODERATOR THAT IF HE THINKS I'M KIDDING, WELL, I'M NOT.

That is the end of the story, as PayPal found NOTHING to investigate. And to EDRNSX1, have fun with the 18/19 wheels! If you don't like their styling, then just sell them.

To everyone else who is trying to play 'Dr. Phil' or 'Judge Judy', well, the thing you have not seemed to clearly identify is, if EDRNSX1 was going to claim all of this BS (which is exactly that.....just a lot of BS), then why did he wait over a month after he received the wheels to do it.

Hmmmmmmm, let's see, that would be suspicious to any court.

Now, with that said, I will not reply any more to this childish BS.

 

[RSO 34]

Re: New NSX Owner in NC!

You know, I don't know what fascinates you guys with a simple transaction. Now, let me say this once again...........if you don't think this can escalate into a defamation lawsuit, just keep going. TELL THE MODERATOR THAT IF HE THINKS I'M KIDDING, WELL, I'M NOT.

That is the end of the story, as PayPal found NOTHING to investigate. And to EDRNSX1, have fun with the 18/19 wheels! If you don't like their styling, then just sell them.

To everyone else who is trying to play 'Dr. Phil' or 'Judge Judy', well, the thing you have not seemed to clearly identify is, if EDRNSX1 was going to claim all of this BS (which is exactly that.....just a lot of BS), then why did he wait over a month after he received the wheels to do it.

Hmmmmmmm, let's see, that would be suspicious to any court.

Now, with that said, I will not reply any more to this childish BS.

Lighten up, Francis..........

Once again, Paypal's failure to investigate this DOES NOT PROVE YOU SHIPPED 18/19s. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt at least until EDRNSX1 showed some verifiable proof of what he received. However, with each of your posts I ponder whether the lady doth protest too much.....

You can threaten a lawsuit all you want but here is a better suggestion: Did you know that they make a very good brewed decaf these days?

I just love when people are quick to threaten litigation. I guess in a bad economy people have friends who are lawyers but can't get real clients so perhaps they have nothing better to do than start a losing lawsuit but try a little less testosterone with your frosted flakes in the morning.

Truth is an absolute defense so let's give EDRNSX1 an opportunity match up what he received with your photos of what you shipped. Seems simple, doesn't it?

 

[EDRNSX1]

Re: New NSX Owner in NC!

OK guys........we could all go on and debate this subject forever. The facts are, you guys don't know the whole story, and it's really nobody's business.

Should EDRNSX1 keep up his 'verbal BS', my attorney will make quick work of the issue. Just perform a little due diligence, and you will find that I don't back down from no one..............and I will spend whatever it takes to prove a point.

The wheels were 18" front and 19" rears, or at least that's what they were when they were shipped. I have three witnesses, including a tire specialist that has sold me 11 sets of custom wheels over the past four years.

As for you TopGunsNSX, when someone is located over 2,000 miles away, they could take a photo of the markings on any wheel and attempt to say its the one that was shipped to them. How would anyone really know, beyond doubt, that the wheels in question are actually the wheels that someone would photograph? The fact is..............they wouldn't.

The buyer received the correct wheels and then didn't like them. That, my friends, is his problem and not mine. I do not run a retail store, so I don't offer 'money-back guarantees', refunds, exchanges or warranties (implied or written).

Now, that's the end of the story!

Guys, im NOT trying to get my money back cause of this or that. I just want what he advertised, invoiced me and said i was getting....2 19x10" rear wheel. The guy was very easy to work with during buying them. THe wheels came just like he said (thou to wrong addy) the wheels were just like he said condition wise...but they are 4 18" wheels. IF they were 19x10" rears they would be ON MY CAR and i would be driving it (60 and sunny yesterday here) Instead, i have 18" rears i cannot use, nor did i purchase. PERIOD!

This is not me upset they are not as clean as he said (they were) or anything other than SOMEHOW magically from what he says his house and mine FedEx swapped out 19x10" rears for 18" rears??? Come on.

All i wanted was to have him either honor the sale/ad/invoice and get me the right wheels, or take them back. Period.

Not sure what else i could have done except pay with CC so at least visa would help me out. Paypal did NOT side with him, only said there was nothing they could do. Thus, ill never use paypal again.

I just want others to know before they buy from him to beware. I wish i would have read something like this myself before i agreed to pay for something i did not get properly.

Dan, you have my address...send the attorney letters to it if you want. I frankly dont know how people nowadays have no conscious and can sleep at night knowing they ripped someone off.

I will even PAY TO SHIP these wheels to a neutral party to check them! Hell, the 1 rear is STILL WRAPPED/TAPED/BOXED 100% FROM HIM..to prove it.

 

[EDRNSX1]

Re: New NSX Owner in NC!

Somebody needs to play devil's advocate here.........

First of all, I am getting "involved" only as a personal favor to one of the moderators and have no interest in the transaction. By way of full disclosure, I admit that I am not a "fan" of EDRNSX1 as a result of an unrelated matter but I am putting that aside to suggest a way to get some type of true resolution here.

Dgrayson admits that he listed 18/19s and even posted photos of them, including the original boxes, in his "for sale" thread. That is the "best evidence" of what he represented as being for sale. Presumably, he would have the full resolution photos of those thumbnail shots which could be enlarged to show the detail of the wheels and the original boxes, including, most likely, identifying markings.

EDRNSX1 has stated he received 18/18s but has posted no photos of what he received. I am presuming that Dgrayson shipped them in the original boxes shown in the photos and it should be fairly simple to match the wheels and boxes if EDRNSX1 provides his own full resolution photos of what he received.

Giving both the benefit of the doubt for now, we have an admission by Dgrayson that he represented he was selling 18/19s but also that he shipped 18/19s. We have a claim by EDRNSX1 without photos to corroborate his claim. I am not saying that he did not receive 18/18s but without his photos we do not even have valid basis upon which to analyze his claim.

On the other hand, if we presume Dgrayson to be correct that EDRNSX1 simply wants to back out of the purchase we must also presume that EDRNSX1 has 18/18s that he is trying to return. If Dgrayson did ship 18/19s, then EDRNSX1 would had to have obtained, by some method, a set of 18 rears in order to be able to claim that is what Dgrayson shipped. That would result in EDRNSX1 purchasing/trading for a set of 18 rears giving him 6 wheels, including the original purported 19 rears, and forcing him to do multiple trades/sales just to get rid of a set of 18s that he claims were shipped to him by Dgrayson.

Clearly, that is a lot of effort on the part of EDRNSX1 just to get a refund for a set of wheels he would not want after buying them. It would have been much easier to just relist the set from Dgrayson and sell them on his own, perhaps for more even, here on Prime.

I would suggest that both sides provide access to full resolution photos, showing what was shipped and what was received, including original boxes. It should be fairly easy to match up markings and determine which version is more credible.

Until then, the veiled threats of "my lawyer will beat up your lawyer" is pure vitriolic b.s. so stop the nonsense and post the photos as proof of what was sent and what was received. I don't care who googles defamation and wants to escalate this to a fantasy lawsuit that will never materialize.

The failure of Paypal to investigate IS NOT "proof" of Dgrayson's claim. They simply investigate whether ANYTHING was shipped and not whether the goods as shipped were what was being represented as being for sale. Dgrayson has proven nothing by way of citing Paypal's internal investigative procedures so stop trying to use that as "proof" of the "truth" of the transaction.

Remember the KISS principle: "Keep it simple, Stupid".

This is a transaction for wheels. One side admits what was for sale and represents that is what he shipped. Let's see the photos from both and remove this from a he said/he said scenario to one in which rational persons may draw rational conclusions.

RSO, here are the pics. I apologize, i left for out of town on the 20th and my iphone pos broke while out of town, had to go back thru my email to find the pics i sent Dan. Here they are. I have an old 19" Dazz Matiz (you can search my old post and see i talk about these often) and also you can see i just sold my work miester 18/19" wheels only just recently and these new ROJA were to go on the old 215-18" and 275-19" tires i have still.

Here are the pics...I LOVE the one with the wheels STAMPED 18x10 on it from ROJA...but yet still not enough proof huh??

 

[RSO 34]

Re: New NSX Owner in NC!

I will even PAY TO SHIP these wheels to a neutral party to check them! Hell, the 1 rear is STILL WRAPPED/TAPED/BOXED 100% FROM HIM..to prove it.

So this is where you start to lose me. You say now that you never even opened the second rear which is inconsistent with your first post that you opened all boxes and BOTH rears were 18s:

so i did not get home till 11pm that night...i open boxes like a 5 year old on xmas....wait...WTF! they are ALL 18" WHEELS! I KNOW what 18" is! I then look at the wheels...SURE ENOUGH STAMPED 18x8 and 18x10 on the rims themselves...i even stumble around house at midnight to get a tape measure to make sure im not too tired to believe this! YEP...18x10' rears!

So which is it? Did you open all the boxes, observed and measured both rears and confirmed both are 18s or do you still have an unopened, uninspected box? As indicated above, the seller bought and sold his NSX in a matter of days so it is possible he didn't really look at what was in the boxes and even, perhaps, one box may be an 18 rear and the other a 19 rear.

You also mention that you have his emails and you imply by one response that he "may have a solution". Why not cut and paste the entire email from him, with the date and time stamp, to see if it is in context as well as to answer his question about why you waited a month to dispute the transaction.

Finally, he sends me an email 'ill call you later, i may have a solution" (i have ALL His emails)

You still have not posted any photos of what you received, including the packaging, which would resolve many of these questions. Additionally, you now claim you never even opened the second rear so why not simply videotape it being opened and then zoom in on the markings to find out what is in the box. Since you are claiming it was never opened this would seem the easiest and most credible way to establish your claim.

Until then, I have to tell you that if you were in a courtroom your case would be dismissed for lack of any proof and the seller would not even need to open his mouth or say a word.

 

[RSO 34]

Re: New NSX Owner in NC!

if EDRNSX1 was going to claim all of this BS (which is exactly that.....just a lot of BS), then why did he wait over a month after he received the wheels to do it.

In an effort to continue playing devil's advocate, it appears that he did not wait a month to try to resolve the problem. He took photos immediately and tried to email you to work it out. Why would he take the photos on February 12 showing the 18x10 stamp to email them to you?

Here is the exif info from the photos he posted above, confirmed as being taken with an Iphone:

Color Space sRGB
Create Date 2009:02:12 10:37:48
23 days, 17 hours, 15 minutes, 59 seconds ago
Date/Time Original 2009:02:12 10:37:48
23 days, 17 hours, 15 minutes, 59 seconds ago
Exif Image Size 600 × 800
F Number 2.8
GPS Latitude 45.528833 degrees
GPS Latitude Ref North
GPS Longitude 122.684833 degrees
GPS Longitude Ref West
GPS Time Stamp 10:37:48.03
Gamma 2.2
Make Apple
Camera Model Name iPhone
Modify Date 2009:02:12 10:37:48
23 days, 17 hours, 15 minutes, 59 seconds ago
Resolution 72 pixels/inch

Iphones even log the GPS coordinates of the location where the photo was taken so we know the coordinates line up with a building on or about NW Johnson Street between NW 13th and NW 14th Avenues.

 

[dgrayson]

And, let me add a few more damning facts.

1. The buyer, EDRNSX1, waited over 30 days to make a complaint to PayPal.

2. Repeatedly I requested that the buyer send me a 'top down view' photo of the tire and wheel. He stated in his return emails that he could not do this. (Hmmm, you mean he could not stand on a ladder and take a photo looking down on the wheel?)

3. Also, if you look at his 'photo evidence' as he calls it, the wheel is not positioned correctly on the tire. My tire specialist, who has sold me over 11 sets of wheels, looked at the photos and stated that something looked funny regarding how EDRNSX1 positioned the tire / wheel. He also confirmed that the wheels were 18 front and 19 rears when I bought them. In fact, I had already bought tires and chose to go with the TSW Nogaros 18 / 19 instead.

4. He conveyed to me also, that he opened up all the boxes. However, as you notice now, he states that he still has one unopened box. Inconsistency will kill your case in a court of law.

Just wanted to throw all this in, as RSO34 is right, in a court of law I would not even have to speak. It would be 'GAME OVER' for EDRNSX1.

Now, seriously to all................I have wasted enough of my time on this 'game' that EDRNSX1 seems to want to play.

 

[EDRNSX1]

Re: New NSX Owner in NC!

omg...OK RSO...sorry not enough yet.

Im on way to my shop this am. Ill take MORE pics. Ill take pics of all FOUR opened up and lined up, ill take pics of the boxes (if you look at the one pic of the stamping, its taken sitting on top of the box, his address is even showing.

After i saw the first rear was wrong, i went "whoa...i need to call him and ill leave this other one alone" i was trying to protect myself. You can think what you want.

Ill copy and paste his email. I personally have never thought forums allowed posting of emails/pm's but if you say too...sure.

SO ill post up copy of

-His emails
-His INVOICE on the paypal
-Pics of all 4 lined up (along with my 19x10 Dazz...you can read 19x10 45 label on the pic above)
-Pics of the 4 boxes WITH his address on them


Seriously thou RSO since you already have an attitude against me, just short of me driving to your house and showing you, you'll never side with me/believe me...but ill go ahead and post up. I want OTHERS TO KNOW TO AVOID THIS GUY and HOW TO PROTECT YOURSELF IN FUTURE.



QUOTE=RSO 34;1138370]So this is where you start to lose me. You say now that you never even opened the second rear which is inconsistent with your first post that you opened all boxes and BOTH rears were 18s:



So which is it? Did you open all the boxes, observed and measured both rears and confirmed both are 18s or do you still have an unopened, uninspected box? As indicated above, the seller bought and sold his NSX in a matter of days so it is possible he didn't really look at what was in the boxes and even, perhaps, one box may be an 18 rear and the other a 19 rear.

You also mention that you have his emails and you imply by one response that he "may have a solution". Why not cut and paste the entire email from him, with the date and time stamp, to see if it is in context as well as to answer his question about why you waited a month to dispute the transaction.



You still have not posted any photos of what you received, including the packaging, which would resolve many of these questions. Additionally, you now claim you never even opened the second rear so why not simply videotape it being opened and then zoom in on the markings to find out what is in the box. Since you are claiming it was never opened this would seem the easiest and most credible way to establish your claim.

Until then, I have to tell you that if you were in a courtroom your case would be dismissed for lack of any proof and the seller would not even need to open his mouth or say a word.[/QUOTE]

 

[EDRNSX1]

RSO here is the email..last "friendly" one i got.
(i xxx the addresses on emails)

*****************************************
Re: wheels--finally!
Saturday, February 14, 2009 2:20 PM
From:
"Dan Grayson" <[email protected]>
Add sender to Contacts
To:
"Eric Dorn" <[email protected]>
Called your office twice.......left a message once and spoke to a guy that answered the phone the second time. He said you were on the dyno and I told him to let you know that I called. You like the wheels, right? If so, I think I have a solution. I am just waiting on a call from my friend.


Sent from my iPhone



*******************************************************
Another Email few days later. I will attest i was VERY hard to get ahold of on the phone. My crew is VERY good at call blocking for me during feb-march due to our 18hr days trying to get our race teams bikes ready. i basically LIVE in the dyno room.


Re: wheels--finally!
Tuesday, February 17, 2009 11:25 AM
From:
"Dan GRAYSON" <[email protected]>
Add sender to Contacts
To:
"Eric Dorn" <[email protected]>
I am in a meeting, but working on the matter as of this email.

Thanks,

Dan

****************************************************

Here are some more pics i just took this am. ANYTHING ELSE anyone wants to see, angles, or if you live in portland PLEASE SWING BY MY SHOP and ill show them!


BOXES AS DELIVERED:

Pic of my old Dazz 19x10" rears for comparision

Both 18" x 10" rear Roja's sent from Dan Grayson next to my Dazz 19" x 10"

The Rear Roja face to face with my Rear Dazz 19" wheel

The Rear Roja back to back with my Rear Dazz 19" wheel

Ill have to break this up, since i cant post more than 5 images. Im HOPING RSO and/or mods are posting up ALL MY RESPONSES.

 

[EDRNSX1]

Re: New NSX Owner in NC!

.

You also mention that you have his emails and you imply by one response that he "may have a solution". Why not cut and paste the entire email from him, with the date and time stamp, to see if it is in context as well as to answer his question about why you waited a month to dispute the transaction.

RSO, check the emails...ill post ALL them if you want...(jesus nasa got us all to believe we landed on moon with less details!!) You;ll see that i did not get the wheels until after midnight on Feb 12th and contacted him within MINS via email. We then played phone/email tag for next week. I was then out of country traveling Feb 20th-March 1st. I once again contacted him upon my return. The next day i filed with Paypal. All within 3 weeks of GETTING the wheels (including the 9 days me gone out of country)

There is NOTHING else i can do. I got fuxxxd. Ill leave it in the courts hands now.


The email from him on Feb 2nd, the paypal money was there and wheels going out on the 3rd,

*******************

Re: wheels--finally!
Monday, February 2, 2009 7:17 PM
From:
"Dan GRAYSON" <[email protected]>
Add sender to Contacts
To:
[email protected]
Hey man, no worries. The wheels will be shipped out tomorrow (February 3) and I will supply you with the appropriate tracking numbers.

Eric, once again................thanks.

Dan


***********************************

Re: wheels--finally!
Tuesday, February 3, 2009 5:13 AM
From:
"Dan GRAYSON" <[email protected]>
Add sender to Contacts
To:
[email protected]
Cc:
[email protected]
Eric,

FedEx Ground is scheduled for pick-up here on Wednesday, February 4, 2009. Here are the Tracking Numbers:

814595710000341
814595710000334
814595710000358
814595710000365

You should be able to begin tracking these packages as early as tomorrow evening (February 4th).

I will also track them to make sure everything is good. By the way, I am not going to invoice you for an additional $50.00. I have had trouble with PayPal in the past........they suck!

Dan

******************************************************

FEB 12th i then received them (8 days after he sent..we are on opposite ends of country)

Here is the email i sent him on Feb 12th at 2:20am (told you im working 15-18hr days)

On Feb 12, 2009, at 2:20 AM, Eric Dorn <[email protected]> wrote:

> Dan WTF! these are not size you said nor what I paid for! the rears are 18"!!!
>
> please call me tomorrow asap
> 503.xxx.xxxx
>
> Eric
>
> Sent from my iPhone



**************************************************
The next day he sent email stating they were 19" (should be) and so for next week @2/13- 2/18 we played phone/email tag. I asked him several times to either refund the money (and yes get his wheels back), or simply get me the correct ones per his ad 19" x 10".

*******************************************************
Re: wheels--finally!
Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:08 AM
From:
"Dan Grayson" <[email protected]>
Add sender to Contacts
To:
"Eric Dorn" <[email protected]>
Eric,

I am in a Board Meeting for thr next 2 days. I will call you first thing Saturday morning. We will resolve any outstanding issues then.

Thanks,

Dan


******************************************************
LASTLY the Paypal invoice


Money Request Details

Request Received

From:
Danny Grayson([email protected])
To:
EDR Performance ([email protected])

Amount:
$1,300.00 USD
Status:
Paid
Date Requested:
Feb. 2, 2009

Subject:
PayPal money request from Danny Grayson

Note:
This is for four (4) Roja Formula 7 Wheels - 2 Front 18 x 8 and 2 Rear 19 x 10. Please provide the shipping address. Thanks.


************************************************



I then left the country (Dan was WELL aware of this the entire time) for Costa Rica/Nicaragua and there was almost 0 internet where we were and no phone service (ICE is the only carrier there). I then thought "well maybe now after his last email (i posted above) where he stated "i am working on a solution" he will have something for me. SO the day i got back on March 2nd i sent an email and got no response. I then went to paypal.


Not sure what the hell else a guy can do, take pics of, post, explain. Pretty shitty im losing hours of work and now $1,300 for some wheels just sittin in my shop because someone either sold me the wrong wheels on purpose, or he did not know what the hell he had and he listed falsely and wont honor the ad/sale.


Anyone want some beautiful perfect 18x8 and 18x10" roja wheels??

 

[scorp965]

The fact that this disagreement is over ro_ja formula 7 wheels make this situation unique, the 18/19 setup was sold by ro_ja motorsports as being an nsx offset, they also produced a set of 18/18's, that was similarly advertised, so simply requesting wheels intended to fit the nsx doesn't guarantee you will receive 18/19's, you may instead get 18/18's (in the sizes described in this thread).

Here is a screenshot of the original ro_ja website, listing their applications for the nsx:

I have seen this mistake (18 vs 19" rear) made in the past with another set of these wheels, a set I was trying to purchase about 2 years ago. Just as the seller was going to ship them out he discovered the rears were 18", he had assumed they were 18/19 in his advertisement, because he had purchased 'nsx' wheels.

Do you have a higher resolution version of this picture Dan?

Perhaps we can contact the original seller, who sold the wheels to Dan, who might have an invoice, which states the combination these are (18/18, or 18/19).

Jerry Lao
xxxx Sutherland Dr
Frederick, MD 21703

I will spend whatever it takes to prove a point.

So let's prove this point, instead of sweeping it under the rug; paypal doesn't offer seller protection for private party transactions (eg nsxprime), only through ebay; you could have shipped him a box of bricks, and paypal would have come to the same conclusion, their refusal to investigate this transaction doesn't mean anything.

To actually prove this point, let's follow the paper trail to the person who bought these wheels from a store, and determine what they ordered.

 

[dgrayson]

Just more evidence that EDRNSX1 can't seem to get his story straight................in his first post in this thread, he stated that he told me to speciffically to send the wheels to his shop................NOT TRUE!) See the below email:

Re: wheels

Wednesday, February 4, 2009 8:21 PM

From:
This sender is DomainKeys verified "E.D.R." <[email protected]>
Add sender to Contacts



To:
[email protected]




Hey Dan, just got message. Whats up? It is WAY easier to email me, and ill call you back. This time of year im on the dyno all day long 18 hrs a day...

again, sorry if i sounded rough/rude, i was WAY burnt out on 80 hr weeks, and worried about our test coming up. Either addy works, my fiance will run home at lunch to get them if you send to house. Otherwise the shop is best. Up to you. Just let me know and the tracking numbers, thanks again.

ERIC DORN

Home
304 NW Pacific Grove Drive
Beaverton, OR 97006
503.928.1265 cell

Shop
1319 NW Johnson St
Portland, OR 97209
503.222.RACE

 

[EDRNSX1]

Just more evidence that EDRNSX1 can't seem to get his story straight................in his first post in this thread, he stated that he told me to speciffically to send the wheels to his shop................NOT TRUE!) See the below email:

Re: wheels

Wednesday, February 4, 2009 8:21 PM

From:
This sender is DomainKeys verified "E.D.R." <[email protected]>
Add sender to Contacts



To:
[email protected]




Hey Dan, just got message. Whats up? It is WAY easier to email me, and ill call you back. This time of year im on the dyno all day long 18 hrs a day...

again, sorry if i sounded rough/rude, i was WAY burnt out on 80 hr weeks, and worried about our test coming up. Either addy works, my fiance will run home at lunch to get them if you send to house. Otherwise the shop is best. Up to you. Just let me know and the tracking numbers, thanks again.

ERIC DORN

Home
304 NW Pacific Grove Drive
Beaverton, OR 97006
503.928.1265 cell

Shop
1319 NW Johnson St
Portland, OR 97209
503.222.RACE

DAN how can you continue to LIE and CHANGE THINGS??? here is the EXACT EMAIL That PRECEEDED the one above!!!!! The one above was AFTER i found out they were in route and i knew i couldn't change.

***************************************

Re: wheels--finally!Tuesday, February 3, 2009 6:06 AM
From: "Eric Dorn" <[email protected]>View contact details To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>dan please DO NOT ship to my house! no one here during days to sign for!!
I emailed you my work addy as well as put in my paypal notemy website is edrperformance.com u can see and also many in NSX forum know me. please shipmto where I asked andemailed you otherwise no way to assure wheels safe! let me know pleaseEric
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 3, 2009, at 4:54 AM, Dan GRAYSON <[email protected]> wrote:


Eric, We are preparing the wheels to ship. They are going to be shipped to the following address that was listed on PayPal:
EDR Performance
304 NW Pacific Grove Drive
Beaverton, OR 97006

503.222.7223


******************************


SERIOUSLY HOW CAN SOMEONE BE THIS ARROGANT AND LIE???

All you had to do once you saw ALL the pics, info..was apologize and say "ill get you 19" rears" or say "i had no idea, i just got them, then sold them without checking, but ill take care of it with new 19" rears or your money back" But NO, you just continue to LIE.

Karma is a bitch that i believe in big time. It'll come around. I personally just want everyone to know what kind of person you are. I have provided FACTS!

FACT you advertised 19" rears
FACT you invoiced me for 19" rears
FACT i emailed you MINS after i got home and found wheels were in fact 18" rears
FACT i then emailed/called/sent you MANY pics of this issue
FACT i have since posted EVEN MORE PICS
FACT I have since shown your twisting emails around without posting them all (see above!)
FACT what goes around comes around.


Thank GOD there are still some GREAT folks on here....you are not one of them!

Mods, Im done. The facts in emails and pics go WELL BEYOND PROOF that i was in fact RIPPED OFF and LIED TO by Dan Grayson Dgrayson on here... DO NOT BUY FROM HIM FOLKS!