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Oil drain plug spinning but not coming out

MLmotorsport

MLmotorsport

Experienced Member
Joined
24 August 2001
Messages
602
Location
Downtown Orlando
Last night I did an oil change following DanO's instructions. I somehow lost my baggie of crush washers and the local NAPA didnt have anything exactly like it (nearest Honda is 40 mis away - and weren't open at 8pm :frown: ) so I reused the old one (I know I know :rolleyes: ). So I put the bolt back on (it took a while to get it going in properly - but I was able to hand tighten a couple turns so I fig'd it was ok). As I'm turning it with the torque wrench it seems to keep going and going. I get in there to see what the deal is and the bolt seems to be fairly tight but the crush ring is spinning along w the bolt when I turn it so I know it's not tight. I tried to back the bolt out but nothing - just sits there spinning once again. There wasn't much else I could do and I had to get the car out of there so I put the oil in and moved it. There is a constant drip now. Overnight probably about a thimble full of oil came out. I know these pans are touchy and I've heard the threads on the bolts can strip - but I can't even get the bolt out now! Any suggestions? I'm probably going to have to take the pan off no matter what to fix the thing - but any ideas on what to expect? Should I just order a new pan before taking everything off - making my car immobile for who knows how long while I wait for the pan? This is for a '95.
 
Looks like you will have to replace the oil pan for a permanent fix. :frown: The old pan may be repairable, but it would take a lot of time and effort. Much more work than any one would likely to be able to do at home. It is 2X as hard to work on your back than working under a lift.
 
EIFFEL said:
Looks like you will have to replace the oil pan for a permanent fix. :frown: The old pan may be repairable, but it would take a lot of time and effort. Much more work than any one would likely to be able to do at home. It is 2X as hard to work on your back than working under a lift.
Click to expand...


Hmmm... well I'll have access to a lift all weekend.. but may not have the, ahem, skills to do the fix. To save $200+ it may be worth a shot if it's "fixable". I'm sure I can get one of the mechanics to help me out. I take it the pan's going to have to come off to get to the back side of the bolt area? Sounds messy! As long as that's coming off I should probably order a new gasket for the pan. Maybe I could even salvage my $40 of oil too. :biggrin:
Maybe I'll install one of these while I'm at it - never to worry about doing this again!
 
If you can use a lift, then just put some pressure behind the drain plug with a flat-tipped screwdriver to help prying it out while turning. After you retapped the threads, use the fumoto drain will prevent any more thread damage.
 
You can helicoil it if the threads can not be chased with a tap and die set, althoough you will really need to be careful then. Another option is to replace the drain with a fumitomo valve so you never have to remove it again, which will keep you from damaging the threads further or pulling out the helicoil.
 
I will have access to a lift, tap, and helicoil kit if/when the time comes. Do I understand that the reason it is spinning may be because the "nut" on the inside of the pan has come loose? If that were the case the pan would definitely have to come off and the nut re-welded - right? Well, I'll order the gasket and wait to do this, just in case. Thanks for the help!
 
I wouldn't reuse any of the oil since it may be contaminated w/ metal pieces. In fact, I wouldn't drive the car at all til' you do the fix.

Good luck.

Jeff
 
A helicoil is not the way to repair this. The pan is too thin for that. You need to replace the pan or weld an additional boss onto the pan and retap it(hocky at best).

New oil pan with new drain bolt is about $180, add $20 for a new gasket. From a discount dealer. Well worth it IMO.

This is NOT a place to save money.

HTH,
LarryB
 
Goofy Lube stripped the oil plug on one of my other cars a few years back. I just took the plug with me to the auto store, got the next millimeter size larger drain plug and a matching tap to rethread the pan. I rethreaded the pan, put the new plug in, and never had another problem.

Why wouldn't or can't you do the same thing here?
 
Your problems started when you torqued a used washer that had nothing to squeeze down. So you stretched the threads instead and stripped them.... The lesson is that the torque spec is only meaningful with an unused washer.

Now, the bolt should be softer than the pan threads (Ford figured this out in 1965, so I would assume Honda knows it too), so there is a reasonable chance that if you remove the bolt and chase the pan nut threads you might be OK (with a new bolt).

Use a new washer and torque to spec, if it still "spins" then Iowa has plenty of blacksmith shops and all that. I would remove the pan and get it TIG'd with a new nut and bolt combo. With good parts and a competent welder you can make your pan as good or better than OEM. Doesn't have to be metric, but I would make the nut Grade-8.

If you remove the pan, I would also drop a strong magnet on the inside of the pan and reinstall.

Drew
 
dnicho05 said:
I just took the plug with me to the auto store, got the next millimeter size larger drain plug and a matching tap to rethread the pan. I rethreaded the pan, put the new plug in, and never had another problem.

Why wouldn't or can't you do the same thing here?
Click to expand...

What do you think Larry? Best case it's just stripped - could I do this? I'd like to save this $200 to put towards an accusump for the other one. :biggrin:
I have now ordered the fumoto part # F106 too.
 
Chances are you did more damage to the bolt than you did to the pan. The pan is steel. If you use a thread chaser to renew the threads you are probably going to be ok. In the future don't use the oil drain plug. Get yourself a Fumoto Valve. Fumotovalve.com

Ooooops, saw that you ordered one already. Good move!
 
Hugh said:
Ooooops, saw that you ordered one already. Good move!
Click to expand...

Found the pn from one of your posts actually, Hugh. Thank you... it better be correct! :wink:
 
I do not think Honda learned what Ford knows, as the oil pan issue has been around on Hondas since before I started working on them in 1988.
 
MLmotorsport said:
Found the pn from one of your posts actually, Hugh. Thank you... it better be correct! :wink:
Click to expand...

It is. My fumoto has been on for at least the the last 30,000 miles and no issues. I scraped off the blue washer included with it and used a factory crush washer. With the fumoto correctly oriented I was at about 24 lb/ft of torque. The crush washer does its thing at about 18 lb/ft so all is good.

The Fumoto and SpeedBleeders are two of the best mods I have done. Not to mention two of the most inexpensive.
 
MLmotorsport said:
What do you think Larry? Best case it's just stripped - could I do this? I'd like to save this $200 to put towards an accusump for the other one. :biggrin:
I have now ordered the fumoto part # F106 too.
Click to expand...

I think Doug's idea will work reliably, it just will not be the same size drain plug as OEM. What size is the thread for the fumoto part # F106? I suspect it is the original thread size. So you need to figure out exactly what is screwed up first:).

HTH,
LarryB
 
The two flat blade screwdrivers should do the trick. You will need three hands to do the trick. Check if the plug is an aftermarket drain plug. If it is, it may just be the plug that is the problem. Sometimes the aftermarket stuff is just slightly smaller than necessary. I have been using a quick drain plug from FRAM. It is called an EZ Drain. You can get them at Schucks, Advanced or any of those discount parts stores. They are $12 to $15. You may just get away with putting one of them in. If you have to chase the threads be careful not to get any shavings on the inside. If you suspect that you have shavings inside, take your oil and run it thru a couple times. Filter it each time and look to see if you get anything. Remember that the oil goes from the pan into the pump and then into the filter before it goes anywhere else. If there is a tiny shaving it may never leave the bottom of the pan.
Now the oil. If you have a spotless drain pan to start with and are very careful, you can do it. When you go to put the oil back in strain in thru a paper paint filter and a funnel. Any paint store or Home Depot has them. They are only like $.50 each. I use them for filtering good anti-freeze if I am going to reuse it also. I like to transfer the used oil into clean/dry plastic milk containers and then back into the car. Run it thru the filter each time.
I hope that you are using Acura oil filters. I know a guy that was using a cheep oil filter on his NSX and it came apart and plugged some of the main bearing oil holes on the crank and the engine came to a sudden stop, to the tune of about $6,000. Our engines create a lot more preasure and flow than most other engines. Acura knows this. That is why the filters are $18.
 
FYI, once you get the plug/leak fixed, you may want to consider using an oil extractor instead of the drain plug. This system has worked great for me. I get more oil out using the oil extractor than I did by using the drain plug.
 
OLDMNSX said:
If you have a spotless drain pan to start with and are very careful, you can do it. When you go to put the oil back in strain in thru a paper paint filter and a funnel. Any paint store or Home Depot has them. They are only like $.50 each. I use them for filtering good anti-freeze if I am going to reuse it also. I like to transfer the used oil into clean/dry plastic milk containers and then back into the car. Run it thru the filter each time.
I hope that you are using Acura oil filters.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'm pretty sure it's an oem plug but I have one of those valves on the way now. I'm hoping i don't have to enlarge the hole with a larger tap or I'll have to order a larger valve (or maybe I'll just get an extractor and be done with it!!). Definitely an oem filter! I know better. Believe it or not I'm anal about things like the crush washers too - but the oil was already out when I realized my "ring-o-washers" was gone. Oh well, with every experience like this I get that much "closer" to my cars. :wink: ...and I realize once again how helpful this place is!
 
I think the oil pan might have to be replaced. If your going to do it once, do it right because you don't want to go through the same problem. Good luck!!

chris
 
drew said:
Your problems started when you torqued a used washer that had nothing to squeeze down. So you stretched the threads instead and stripped them.... The lesson is that the torque spec is only meaningful with an unused washer.
Click to expand...
I'm skeptical of this line of argument.

If you follow a torque spec (that is, with a torque wrench),
the threads should see the same stress irrespective of whether
or not the washer is compressible. You'll reach the specified
torque more quickly (i.e., with less rotation of the bolt after
contact) with a rigid washer--but if you don't exceed the
torque spec, the threads won't be overstressed.
 

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