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O'Reilly vs. Moore video

Ohh sorry i do mean Moore because Bill is the man!!! He always on my side!!!! Moore thats another story.
 
you can hate him, but if people like him weren't here pissing you off, you wouldn't be thinking about this kind of stuff, and you would just take it for granted.
 
And Im glad we have controversy! Isnt thats what our country is about? :p
 
nosboy4life said:
I cant stand this guy.....If you do not like our country then just move out! :rolleyes:

Did you ever think that the reason he does what he does is because he loves this country? You are the type of person who would have said this same comment about abolitionists in the 1850s, or Civil Rights leaders in the 1960s, or revolutionaries in the 1780s. If those who are unhappy with how things are always leave, then nothing will ever change for the better....it will just stay the same forever.
 
nosboy4life said:
If you do not like our country then just move out! :rolleyes:


I SERIOUSLY hope you are kidding. Let me get this straight, If somebody has a different opinion that you, you feel that they should "move out" of the country. That isn't what democracy is about.

Don't get me wrong, I don't care for Moore's tactics either. But saying "If you do not like our country then just move out" shows your lack of understanding of a democracy or our constitution.
 
The problem with Michael Moore and his fellow far lefties is that they are Socialists (to use a polite term). He is entitled to express his opinions, but they are almost always wrong for America. He is a clown who apparently doesn't understand that basic concepts on which our government was founded and our economy operates. The United States of America is the sole superpower and THE beacon of hope/opportunity for the world thanks to our CAPITALIST economic system (combined of course with our abundant natural and human resources). Capitalism is not perfect but it beats the hell out of any other system devised by man - especially Socialism.

Moore and the rest of the extremist liberals are usually wrong for one simple reason - their opinions are based on utopian idealistic fantasies instead of reality. They decide how they feel about an issue first, then distort and twist the facts to support their views. And before anyone starts painting me as a conservative extremist, let me say that I have the exact same opinion of extreme right-wing crazies like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. You could say that they are all blinded by their dogmatic faith - the right by traditional religions and the left by humanism.

A particularly good example of this is the manic, hysterical criticism that has been directed at President Bush over his entire first term. To anyone with an ounce of intelligence and objectivity, the majority of these criticisms are laughable at best. The far left, led by among others the bloated Mr. Moore, are literally blinded by their vitriolic hatred of President Bush. This leads them to all manner of stupidity, such as the ridiculous claims espoused in the O'Reilly interview. And now we see clearly that CBS News is also so hell-bent on defeating President Bush (gee, what a surprise) that they based a major news story on forged documents that they obviously did not even have validated. They put their liberal political agenda before their journalistic integrity, which as we all have know for many years is par for the course among most media organizations. But I digress...

Bottom line - Michael Moore and Dan Rather are idiots.
 
nsxr1 said:
The problem with Michael Moore and his fellow far lefties is that they are Socialists (to use a polite term). He is entitled to express his opinions, but they are almost always wrong for America. He is a clown who apparently doesn't understand that basic concepts on which our government was founded and our economy operates. The United States of America is the sole superpower and THE beacon of hope/opportunity for the world thanks to our CAPITALIST economic system (combined of course with our abundant natural and human resources). Capitalism is not perfect but it beats the hell out of any other system devised by man - especially Socialism.

Moore and the rest of the extremist liberals are usually wrong for one simple reason - their opinions are based on utopian idealistic fantasies instead of reality. They decide how they feel about an issue first, then distort and twist the facts to support their views. And before anyone starts painting me as a conservative extremist, let me say that I have the exact same opinion of extreme right-wing crazies like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. You could say that they are all blinded by their dogmatic faith - the right by traditional religions and the left by humanism.

A particularly good example of this is the manic, hysterical criticism that has been directed at President Bush over his entire first term. To anyone with an ounce of intelligence and objectivity, the majority of these criticisms are laughable at best. The far left, led by among others the bloated Mr. Moore, are literally blinded by their vitriolic hatred of President Bush. This leads them to all manner of stupidity, such as the ridiculous claims espoused in the O'Reilly interview. And now we see clearly that CBS News is also so hell-bent on defeating President Bush (gee, what a surprise) that they based a major news story on forged documents that they obviously did not even have validated. They put their liberal political agenda before their journalistic integrity, which as we all have know for many years is par for the course among most media organizations. But I digress...

Bottom line - Michael Moore and Dan Rather are idiots.

Well Said!!! You should have your own column!
 
nsxr1 said:
Bottom line - Michael Moore and Dan Rather are idiots.
I would not have thought of Rather as an idiot until the recent docugate boggle. But when he came out the very next day in defense of the documents, exclaiming that the documents were from an absolute unimpeachable source, he showed that his integrity was compromised by his hatred of Bush, that he simply wanted them to be true, and was unable to step back and see the forest through the trees. It's not surprising that ratings for CBS News have plummeted this week.
 
My favorite Rather quote of the week: "If the documents turn out to be flase, I want to be the one to break that story." :rolleyes:
 
While the last thing I want to do is get involved in a pointless Right vs. Left, Bush vs. Kerry, O'Reilly vs. Moore argument, I'll say this:

Every American has right to criticize our leadership. That's not being unpatriotic, that's simply exercising the 1st Amendment. I fail to see how being critical of the President & his administration corresponds with hating America.

nosboy4life said:
I cant stand this guy.....If you do not like our country then just move out! :rolleyes:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,127948,00.html

Click videos and its under that
 
nsxr1 said:
The problem with Michael Moore and his fellow far lefties is that they are Socialists (to use a polite term). He is entitled to express his opinions, but they are almost always wrong for America. He is a clown who apparently doesn't understand that basic concepts on which our government was founded and our economy operates. The United States of America is the sole superpower and THE beacon of hope/opportunity for the world thanks to our CAPITALIST economic system (combined of course with our abundant natural and human resources). Capitalism is not perfect but it beats the hell out of any other system devised by man - especially Socialism.
nsxr1,
Your statements amuse me. This may not be accurate in your case, but you remind me of many people I have met, that have never lived anywhere but in the US, yet insist that there is no better place on Earth.
I have news for you, America is not the only place where capitalism is practiced successfully, far from it. And the attitude that we are the only hope for the rest of the world is part of what makes others dislike us Americans. It is unfathomable to some people that there may more than one correct way.
And, of course, I love the statement that someone's opinions are always wrong. How can opinions be wrong? Can you give us specific examples of which opinions are wrong, in Moore's case?

Also, socialism is a political system, while capitalism is an economic one. They are not mutually exclusive.
nsxr1 said:
A particularly good example of this is the manic, hysterical criticism that has been directed at President Bush over his entire first term. To anyone with an ounce of intelligence and objectivity, the majority of these criticisms are laughable at best.
I like to believe that I have at least an ounce of intelligence and objectivity, and I believe that a significant amount of the criticisms are accurate, and a significant amount aren't. Of course, a lot of it depends on your point of view.

A lot of people don't agree with tax cuts for the rich at the expense of the federal budget. Others believe these tax cuts will stimulate the economy.
A lot of people don't agree with sending our troops to war based on inaccurate information about WMDs. Others believe believe it was an honest mistake, or that it really doesn't matter that we haven't found any.
A lot of people question the ties between the government and companies like Haliburton. Others believe that it is a perfectly normal association.
 
I don't particularly like Moore, but I absolutely believe that president bush is a horrible horrible leader. I also believe that the only reason that Bush is as high as he is in the polls is because of the republic marketing machine (i.e. slander ville)

Some reasons I will not vote for Bush (I'd actually like to see an equal list for Kerry thats not based on here say) (not in any particular order)
1) Kyoto Treaty
2) Abortion stance
3) Birth control stance (especially in developing nations)
4) Sex education stance (especially in developing nations, which I find appalling with the rate of unwanted pregnancy and AIDS)
5) Not re-implementing the military style automatic weapons ban
6) Iraq ordeal
7) Tax cuts that benefit the wealthy but hurt the middle class
8) Energy scandal and not forcing meetings notes to be public
9) Turning the international communities sympathy after 9/11 against the U.S.

There are more...
The non-concrete things I find horrifying are his military record and his drug and alcohol abuse. It just smacks of lack of character and discipline.

Just my $.02

Thanks
 
nkb said:
socialism is a political system

Lay off the drugs dude! Just like Capitalism, Socialism is an economic system and can be mixed with any political system. You can have many different combinations:

Socialism & Democracy: Sweden, Israel, Vietnam
Socialism & Dictatorship: Cuba, North Korea
Capitalism & Democracy: Britain, Japan, Mexico
Capitalism & Dictatorship: Pakistan, Saudi Arabia

Most countries are combinations of both instead of being one extreme or the other. In countries like Pakistan & Cuba, the president is not elected by the people, but the parlament & local leaders are. In some countries like Vietnam & Britain, the Prime Minister is appointed by the Parlament instead of being voted for by the general public.

Same goes for economic systems. Most countries are a combination of socialism & caplitalism. In the United States, we have the US Post Office, Social Security, Welfare, Medicare -- all socialist institutions. And in Cuba, considered to be a socialist/communist economy, people are allowed to own small businesses with fewer than 10 employees, obviously a capitalist influence.

And to someone above who said Capitalism is better than Socialism, that is simply not true.

I'm sure you would not argue that Capitalism is Mexico has been better than Socialism in Sweden. Cuba surely has a much higher standard of living than does Haiti, both Carribean nations. And Socialism has sure done better in China than has Capitalism in Burma, both Asian nations. But obviously Capitalism has done better in South Korea than Socialism has in North Korea.

Both systems have had their successes and falures. More likely it depends on the quality of the leadership and not as much on the system.
 
fugaziman said:
I don't particularly like Moore, but...
...
Just my $.02
And you joined Prime just now to write all of that?
 
Is everyone you don't agree with a complete moron?

I personally don't like Moore, because he distorts facts sometimes to try to make his point, which takes away any credibility from any valid points he may have.

But I try not to label someone as a moron, just because they have a different point of view.
 
Its not his point of veiw I have a problem with.
you said it ;
"I personally don't like Moore, because he distorts facts sometimes to try to make his point, which takes away any credibility from any valid points he may have."

People out there actually believe his "distortions"


Ok I take it back He's not a moron He's an F-in fat assh@le. That should cover it.

Paul M
 
I will always be anti-left, based on their socialist beliefs alone. Why should my house, car, yard, bike etc all be the same size, color, and quality as my slacker neighbor when I work 3 times as hard? <----that is socialism. If I work harder at everything life throws at me, than my neighbor, I DESERVE to have a BMW while the slacker gets a GEO.

P.S. My real neighbor isn't a slacker. :p
 
nkb said:
nsxr1,
Your statements amuse me. This may not be accurate in your case, but you remind me of many people I have met, that have never lived anywhere but in the US, yet insist that there is no better place on Earth.

I have news for you, America is not the only place where capitalism is practiced successfully, far from it. And the attitude that we are the only hope for the rest of the world is part of what makes others dislike us Americans. It is unfathomable to some people that there may more than one correct way.

That’s OK, you’re just confused. As a matter of fact, I have lived a total of four years in two different foreign countries (one Asian, one European). I have also traveled extensively, mostly throughout Europe. There is absolutely no doubt that the United States is the greatest country that has ever existed in the history of humankind. Of course there are many other present-day countries that also have vibrant economies, free and open societies, and a high standard of living, but every single one of them owes their economic successes and freedoms to the U.S., either directly or indirectly. Since WWII, when the American worker and the American soldier combined to almost single-handedly save the world from totalitarianism, the United States has been the source of political freedom and economic prosperity for the world. It is precisely this that breeds resentment of the U.S., particularly in Europe. To put it simply, their nationalistic egos are bruised by our political and cultural dominance. Of course, their constant criticism of everything we do does not deter them from emulating us in almost every way. I have seen firsthand how the typical European (especially in southern Europe) criticizes us at every opportunity while at the same time adopting and enjoying the American way of life.

No one with any common sense claims that the American way is the only conceivable way of doing things. But I live in the real world, not some hypothetical utopian La La Land. And in the real world, the American form of government and the capitalist free market economy are the best systems devised by man so far. If you have come up with something better, by all means share it with us.

And along that same line, your comments beg the usual question: If you know of a better country on the face of the Earth in which to live, why are you still living in the United States? As a U.S. citizen, you have the rare privilege of not only expressing your opinions publicly but also of leaving your country anytime you feel like it.

nkb said:
And, of course, I love the statement that someone's opinions are always wrong. How can opinions be wrong? Can you give us specific examples of which opinions are wrong, in Moore's case?

You must be joking. There was a time not that long ago when most people were of the opinion that the Earth was flat. Were they wrong? You're confusing the right to hold an opinion with the accuracy of the opinion. You're also confusing opinions on subjective matters (e.g. "That painting is beautiful") with opinions on objective matters (e.g. Michael Moore's assertion that life for the Iraqi people was just great under Saddam Hussein's rule). The first can never be proven nor disproven by facts. The second most certainly can.

The list of false assertions by Mr. Moore is overwhelming. It seems the pathetic slob can hardly open his mouth without uttering one. Here are a few articles that sum up Michael Moore pretty well…
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/7/6/102551.shtml

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=14378134&method=full&siteid=50143

http://www.moorewatch.com/f911flyer.pdf

nkb said:
Also, socialism is a political system, while capitalism is an economic one. They are not mutually exclusive.

Wrong. Socialism is also essentially an economic system, and it is pretty much diametrically opposed to capitalism. Capitalism operates on the fundamental principles of private ownership and a free market. The individual works for his/her own private betterment, and wealth accumulates as the free market allows. Under capitalism there are no artificial limits placed on how much private wealth one can accumulate through one’s own industry and efforts. Socialism is the absolute opposite – individuals work for the betterment of society as a whole, and not for personal gain. The state holds and controls all wealth and goods, as well as means of production, and redistributes wealth and goods equally regardless of individual talent or work.

It’s true that they are not mutually exclusive in the sense that neither system exists in it’s pure form in the real world. The closest thing to Socialism is found in Communist states, where accumulation of wealth is permitted but is based on political connections. Our capitalist free market system has socialist components, such as income/sales taxes and government entitlement programs.

The basic tenets of socialism would seem to make sense to the casual observer. Who can argue with touchy-feely ideals such as the government providing everyone with the basic necessities of life? In practice, however, socialism fails miserably because it robs human beings of a very essential thing – hope for a better tomorrow. When you know that no matter what you do or how hard you work you are not going to get ahead of the guy that does nothing, you lose all incentive to achieve. In contrast, capitalism – or at least the somewhat modified form of it that we have here in the U.S. – has been the engine of progress for the world. Socialist countries will never compete successfully with capitalist countries, and the more socialist they are, the more doomed to failure they are. The former Soviet Union is the poster child for this.

nkb said:
A lot of people don't agree with tax cuts for the rich at the expense of the federal budget. Others believe these tax cuts will stimulate the economy.

It is an indisputable fact that tax cuts stimulate the economy. And Bush’s tax cuts were not exclusively for the rich as you imply – they were across the board. I suppose you think it would be better to give tax breaks only to the poor and middle class? That is called “redistribution of wealth” by the government. The fact is that government already engages in too much of that by taxing the wealthy at a much higher rate. By the way, I am far from wealthy myself, and I base my opinions on simple common sense.

nkb said:
A lot of people don't agree with sending our troops to war based on inaccurate information about WMDs. Others believe believe it was an honest mistake, or that it really doesn't matter that we haven't found any.

A little over 13 years ago we defeated Iraq and drove them out of Kuwait. Saddam Hussein’s regime agreed to dismantle and destroy their weapons in exchange for a cease fire. 17 U.N. resolutions over 12 years demanded that Iraq allow free access to U.N. weapons inspectors and provide proof that they had destroyed their weapons, or else face serious consequences. Iraq never complied, but instead continually gave the U.N. the figurative “finger”.

Here are a few facts:
1. The Hussein regime had stockpiles of chemical weapons, and used them more than once on Iraqi citizens.
2. Saddam Hussein continually refused to verify the destruction of his stockpiles.
3. Iraq was in material breach of 17 U.N. resolutions.
4. Saddam Hussein was known to be seeking the means to produce tactical nuclear and biological weapons.
5. Saddam Hussein was on record as advocating the destruction of the West (just like Al Qaeda).
6. Saddam Hussein had tremendous oil revenue potentially at his disposal.

I could go on and on but the fact is that our invasion of Iraq was overdue and justified for many legitimate reasons. We should have done taken Hussein out in the mid 90’s, but unfortunately at that time we had a President who was always more concerned with his standing in the poles than in doing the right thing. The WMD issue is nothing more than a straw man created and promoted by the Democrats as a way of attacking President Bush in this election. You have to be naive (or living in a cave for the past 13 years) to buy into it, but apparently there are plenty of people who are (or have).
 
T Bell said:
I will always be anti-left, based on their socialist beliefs alone. Why should my house, car, yard, bike etc all be the same size, color, and quality as my slacker neighbor when I work 3 times as hard? <----that is socialism. If I work harder at everything life throws at me, than my neighbor, I DESERVE to have a BMW while the slacker gets a GEO.

No.....Socialism is where a child does not grow up contantly hungry because his parents do not make enough money to feed him. And he does not go to a drug infested school where he cannot possibly learn just because his parents cannot afford to live in a neighborhood within a good school district.

In this country 3 out of 10 children are currently living in poverty -- the poverty line in this country is $18,500 for a family of 4. I'm a single guy and I can't even imagine living on that by myself, yet 3 out of every 10 children in the entire country live in a family where 4 members have to share less money than that. You cannot expect a child to go to school and learn when they are not properly fed, clothed, and/or do not have a place to live. That's right.....approximately 40% of the homeless in the United States are children under the age of 12.

And this country has one of the highest standard of livings of all capitalist countries. Most other capitalist countries have it much much worse.

But I guess you do not care about that. I guess "Compassionate Conservatism" means you are nice enough to let those who make over $200k per year have another few thousand instead of forcing them to pay for some homeless child to eat, some handicapped person to have a place to live, or some elderly poor person to have health care. Forcing them to do that would surely not be compassionate at all. :confused:
 
Eric5273 said:
No.....Socialism is where a child does not grow up contantly hungry because his parents do not make enough money to feed him. And he does not go to a drug infested school where he cannot possibly learn just because his parents cannot afford to live in a neighborhood within a good school district.

In this country 3 out of 10 children are currently living in poverty -- the poverty line in this country is $18,500 for a family of 4. I'm a single guy and I can't even imagine living on that by myself, yet 3 out of every 10 children in the entire country live in a family where 4 members have to share less money than that. You cannot expect a child to go to school and learn when they are not properly fed, clothed, and/or do not have a place to live. That's right.....approximately 40% of the homeless in the United States are children under the age of 12.

And this country has one of the highest standard of livings of all capitalist countries. Most other capitalist countries have it much much worse.

But I guess you do not care about that. I guess "Compassionate Conservatism" means you are nice enough to let those who make over $200k per year have another few thousand instead of forcing them to pay for some homeless child to eat, some handicapped person to have a place to live, or some elderly poor person to have health care. Forcing them to do that would surely not be compassionate at all. :confused:


First of all, I said slackers. Where did I say anything about disabled or homeless child? We have foster homes for homeless children. We have government programs for the disabled. 9 times out of 10, the child was homeless because of a "slacker" parent. It is unfortunate that the child has a slacker parent. That is why social welfare programs exist for the child. The sad thing is that we do have social welfare programs for the slacker parent as well. As far as I am concerned, lets help the child, and toss the slacker parent under a bridge. When I turned 18, I was off penniless, and worked my butt off, and have seen many a slacker smoking, drinking, using prostitutes, having multiple children etc, all the while bitching that they don't have a job, and Uncle Sam is not helping them. Hell the cig's and 5th's they bought that week would pay for my NSX payment.

Just because I work harder than the next guy, why should I NOT be able to keep more money? What you are saying is that if I worked an 8 hour shift on days @ GM, and walked across the street and worked 8 hours second shift @ Ford, I should only keep 8 hours salary and give the other 8 hours to the slacker parent who doesn't want to work? That is the wacked out leftist view. Your way of thinking makes that guy say why the hell should I work 16 hard hours, when I have to pay 8 back in higher taxes? What does he do? He quits the second job. Guess what.......Socialist ideas creates laziness. If there is no incentive left for hard work, our nation will turn lazy. If we would swap tax scales around, and have low income jobs pay 50% tax, and high income jobs pay 5%, guess what? College enrollment would multiply 20 fold, because noone would want to be left being a bottom feeder. It would create productivity, and everyone would work at 110%. But with a leftist thought, with a 50% tax rate for the high-end job, and a 5% rate for entry-level, it would create laziness, because people would just take a few Micky D's jobs and make as much as a UAW worker.

I am sorry for going off......It is an election year ;)
 
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