Sorry to hear that. I hope you'll reconsider as you see the changes around here.
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Prospective owner with a few questions
- Thread starter sbkim
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Sorry to hear that. I hope you'll reconsider as you see the changes around here.
IMHO the site is worthy despite our own human emotions...
Here is 130R and Casino white side by side
My car is 130R and my wife's mom's car is Casino White. IMHO both are incredible! Tough choice!
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In those first two photos, they really do look identical. In the bottom one I can finally tell there's a difference, as the one on the right looks a little more pearlescent than plain white. Casino White Pearl is a fascinating color!
I know it's too early to tell but I am curious if anyone has insight into AFS $20K incentive for 2021 models? If history prevails, I am hearing we could see it return in March but I also hear it may not happen given that supply and demand curve is more optimized?
Any insider info?
Any insider info?
I totally agree! It is amazing.
In the bright direct sunlight it absolutely looks white, in other lighting conditions it looks Grey, silver ect. Beautiful color.
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No insider info, but just outsider opinion. 
First, I doubt they know yet if they're going to bring back the incentive--I'm almost certain they'll wait to see how sales do first. If they fall off a cliff, they'll almost certainly bring it back. But even if they *did* plan to bring it back (in March, say), they certainly wouldn't release that information as who in their right mind would buy one before March in that case?
So my advice is to buy based on the value of the NSX *to you*. It's like any big purchase--you can sit on the fence forever, always waiting for the deal to get just a little bit better. But then you'll miss out on enjoying it in the meantime. I know some people who bought the NSX right upon release felt betrayed later when Acura started offering the incentives--others chalked it up to the "early adopter tax" and felt the price they paid was fair to be among the first to experience this amazing machine.
First, I doubt they know yet if they're going to bring back the incentive--I'm almost certain they'll wait to see how sales do first. If they fall off a cliff, they'll almost certainly bring it back. But even if they *did* plan to bring it back (in March, say), they certainly wouldn't release that information as who in their right mind would buy one before March in that case?So my advice is to buy based on the value of the NSX *to you*. It's like any big purchase--you can sit on the fence forever, always waiting for the deal to get just a little bit better. But then you'll miss out on enjoying it in the meantime. I know some people who bought the NSX right upon release felt betrayed later when Acura started offering the incentives--others chalked it up to the "early adopter tax" and felt the price they paid was fair to be among the first to experience this amazing machine.
No insider info, but just outsider opinion.
So my advice is to buy based on the value of the NSX *to you*. It's like any big purchase--you can sit on the fence forever, always waiting for the deal to get just a little bit better. But then you'll miss out on enjoying it in the meantime. I know some people who bought the NSX right upon release felt betrayed later when Acura started offering the incentives--others chalked it up to the "early adopter tax" and felt the price they paid was fair to be among the first to experience this amazing machine.
Thanks - makes sense. I am surprised to see new 2020s still being delivered at some dealerships so great opportunity for those who want to lock in the $20K incentive. Given that I haven't moved to RPV and stuck in midwest winter, I am good with waiting until this spring and one less year of depreciation. Given that the car remains the same other than new color, I am expecting incentive to carry over.
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Nice picts! Anyone have pictures of white (130r or CW) and Source Silver next to each other?
Certainly very few people want to think that they paid more than their neighbor for same car. Like, my car cost $206k but of course I did not pay that much......I got a real deal.....The problem of course is that most all cars depreciate so if you are thinking that this is an investment then you will be probably be disappointed in the short term. As noted above the 2021 will probably not get discounted unless it does not sell in numbers that Acura requires, to keep the system functional. You can always purchase used and save some of the depreciation if that is your quest. By the way what does RPV mean?
Sorry, RPV = Ranchos Palos Verdes. I definitely don't view as an investment but obviously want to get a decent deal if possible and minimize total cost of ownership. Unless cars are not selling at asking prices on Autotrader, used doesn't make much sense for me. Case in point, there was a 2019 with 3000miles asking $140s which is on par with 2020 new with similar options after incentive. This is positive news for current owners as used car prices are holding up well.
Keep in mind that the 2019 and the 2020 are essentially the same car less paint color. I would not expect much of a price difference because of this. There are very few 2019s around. There is still no used car price because of so few vehicles available for sale. I think it will come down to how far you are willing to go and what color you want along with what options are important. When I did a search there were 7 2019s within the United States from $132k to $159k. There are 9 2020s available in the US from $160k to $185k.
2020 NSX production numbers
There should only be approximately 122 2020 NSX's produced, compare to 238 in 2019. All NC1's are very rare cars!
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2022 is getting a refresh. Signs point towards incentives starting as early as February. They are not going to keep the factory idle selling 7 units a month. The factory does not exist to paint orange and red sedans and SUVs. They have overhead to pay. Even at 30K incentives, they are still making money. The factory was designed to build 800 units a year. Owners who think Honda wants to keep volumes low is drinking kool-aid
Well, there are certainly different flavors of Kool-Aid. What signs do you see toward incentives starting in February? If the 2021's aren't even rolling out to dealers until then, why would they discount before even seeing what the market will bear?
Also, the numbers we are talking about are U.S. sales. While not a huge upper, they also produce NSX's for the rest of the world at the PMC. They also repair ones that come back for major body work. And don't underestimate the importance of the PMC edition sedans and SUVs--I think they finally got a winner with the RDX (that gets the full PMC treatment and an exclusive option set, not just a fancy paint job) so will gladly churn out a few hundred units of models other than the NSX each year.
I don't have any insider info, but am just reporting my impressions from my tour of the PMC a couple of months ago. Both the workers on the line and the management seemed quite comfortable with the pace they were operating at--there was enough volume to keep one shift suitably busy. Add too much more volume and that one shift would either become much more stressful or they'd have to add a second shift (at significant labor expense, obviously).
Also, the numbers we are talking about are U.S. sales. While not a huge upper, they also produce NSX's for the rest of the world at the PMC. They also repair ones that come back for major body work. And don't underestimate the importance of the PMC edition sedans and SUVs--I think they finally got a winner with the RDX (that gets the full PMC treatment and an exclusive option set, not just a fancy paint job) so will gladly churn out a few hundred units of models other than the NSX each year.
I don't have any insider info, but am just reporting my impressions from my tour of the PMC a couple of months ago. Both the workers on the line and the management seemed quite comfortable with the pace they were operating at--there was enough volume to keep one shift suitably busy. Add too much more volume and that one shift would either become much more stressful or they'd have to add a second shift (at significant labor expense, obviously).
Please tell us more
I've been hearing similar rumor for awhile and perhaps it's time for a refresh after 5 year run.2022 MDX is coming Feb 2021. Why not rollout the new features with 2021 NSX or skip MY21 all together?
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- Joined
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- Messages
- 569
The refresh is based on a compilation of all the information that has been gathered and the consistency of them plus my knowledge of this industry being in product development for a few decades now. All signs are pointing to late 2022 to show the refresh. Most you you have also seen the leaked dealer document showing NSX will be around for at least a few more years. They also moved development back to Japan so you know they are up to something good or different. Insiders in Honda Japan noted management wasn't pleased with the American development team. It was fuzzy, something about not putting the hours needed to get the work done.
There is too much investment in this car to discontinue it. They haven't paid off the investment yet, hence they had to get creative by introducing 360 units of TLX, MDX and now RDX, staggering the build each year and then build the race cars and repair customer damaged units. If the factory was running at its planned volume of 800 units a year, do you think PMC will be doing paint shop duty for outgoing sedans and SUVs?
USA represent slightly higher than 50% of world volume. USA 2020 ETD sales volume to Nov is 114 units, which is exactly 50% of sales from 2019. Let's approximate that they will close MY2020 with 125 units and then let's double that for total 2020 global sales to 250 units. Now, 250 NSX units + race cars + estimated 50 units repaired + 360 PMC editions get us close 700 units a year, which is pretty close to the 800 units PMC is built for. That didn't happen by accident.
It happened because that's what it takes to keep the lights on. But do know they brought in PMC editions as a countermeasure to address slow NSX sales. Marketing puts their spin on PMC editions. All the investment in infrastructure and manufacturing equipment wasn't going to sit idle. Its a business. They want their ROI.
Let's look at US sales, again it represent at least 50% of global volume:
2016 - 269 units (first year, not full year of production)
2017 - 581 units ($30K rebates)
2018 - 170 units ($20K rebates started in spring/early summer), no change from 2017
2019 - 238 units, ($20K rebates started in March) with mild refresh and sales decrease of 59% compared to 2017 sales
2020 - 125 units estimated (continued $20K rebate), decrease of 50% in sales compared to 2019
The disturbing trend is the 59% decrease from 2017 to 2019 and another 50% decrease to 2020. A mild refresh bumps up the number from 2018 to 2019. The smaller than expected market caught Honda by surprise, hence they had to react with PMC editions.
From a product side, they are learning a hard lesson that limited buyer are willing to pony up Porsche & McLaren money for a Japanese supercar, irregardless that it is a budget 918. You and I like this car but there are not enough of us to get their payback. So they missed the mark. They invested $70 Million for PMC. That is just the factory, which may not include supplier tooling, nor does it include development cost. I'll estimate total investment at $125 million for this program and if they generate at least $50K profit for each NSX, it would take them 2500 units to payoff the investment and at the projected 800 units a year, this is 3 year payback, which is about right for this industry. Total global sales may be close to 2500 now, however, they are not getting their $50K profit with all the incentives they had. So they have a few options:
1. Continue down this path of death spiral in sales by not updating it and build more PMC red & orange paint specials for mainstream products.
2. Throw a few more million in development and tooling to get where NSX needs to be. Areas of improvement commonly noted are interior & exterior styling updates, more power, better engine sound and a higher tune variant. The higher tune variant will cost more but it will be incremental sales.
3. Reduce cost - Bring Cosworth block and heads in house or additional changes for cost reduction. They won't move production facility to Suzuka until sales dwindles and production winds down like they did with 1st gen NSX and s2000, which started production in Tochigi but finished their last runs in Suzuka plant. Tochigi later became a manufacturing research center and was hit in 2011 by the earthquake which also led to Fukushima's nuclear incident.
4. Generate additional sales volume by offering a cost reduced variant to bring in buyer from a lower price segment. Change Cosworth to a high tune variant of TLX 3.0 Turbo V6 and/or remove front motors. Or make an S2000 successor in the same facility.
I think it will be combination of 2 and 3 to keep car competitive and keep price point where it is now. Option 4 is possible but speculative. I'm also hearing about E-turbos using e-motors to spool up turbine before exhaust gas take over. They are working out the heat issues with E motor being mounted so close to turbo.
From a design standpoint, They won't keep NSX in current form using 2016 Civic head unit and and missing all the Honda sensing/AcuraWatch safety suite (not that I care for that). If they are going to redo headunit, the interior dash will be redone along with climate controls and perhaps add the controversial Acura touchpad or the next generation of that. I prefer rotary dial like BMWs idrive since it minimizes distraction. Interior will need more storage and a more premium look on par with the price tag. Don't compare the interior to McLaren or Audi. Use the LC500 as benchmark for premium interior feel, not necessary the same layout or luxury quotient because LC500 is a GT car.
The exterior needs a refresh to set design direction for next generation Acuras and make room on front fascia to package the radar if they can't figure out how to design it behind the emblem without having to put a plexiglass in front of it, which is an eyesore on the 2021 TLX. Lastly, there is too much fancy plastic to cover up the engine, even if it is CF. The designer got Doc Brown's inspiration and wanted the flux capacitor look under the hatch. How about no! I want to see the engine with different colors of shiny polished aluminum, black paint, and red valve covers with varying complex textures akin to 80s Japanese motorycles engines before they faded to unfinished aluminum because fairings covered them up starting with the Hurricane/CBR. The JNC1 engine is boring to look at because it has one color and no texture.
In current form, the NSX is a good car. I desire better sound from a home grown engine (not something that can be cured with aftermarket exhaust), less weight by gutting the front motors, and some improvement in the interior. With this in place, hopefully it will make Honda whole from an investment return perspective and offer more choices and improvements for Honda and sports car enthusiasts.
There is too much investment in this car to discontinue it. They haven't paid off the investment yet, hence they had to get creative by introducing 360 units of TLX, MDX and now RDX, staggering the build each year and then build the race cars and repair customer damaged units. If the factory was running at its planned volume of 800 units a year, do you think PMC will be doing paint shop duty for outgoing sedans and SUVs?
USA represent slightly higher than 50% of world volume. USA 2020 ETD sales volume to Nov is 114 units, which is exactly 50% of sales from 2019. Let's approximate that they will close MY2020 with 125 units and then let's double that for total 2020 global sales to 250 units. Now, 250 NSX units + race cars + estimated 50 units repaired + 360 PMC editions get us close 700 units a year, which is pretty close to the 800 units PMC is built for. That didn't happen by accident.
It happened because that's what it takes to keep the lights on. But do know they brought in PMC editions as a countermeasure to address slow NSX sales. Marketing puts their spin on PMC editions. All the investment in infrastructure and manufacturing equipment wasn't going to sit idle. Its a business. They want their ROI.
Let's look at US sales, again it represent at least 50% of global volume:
2016 - 269 units (first year, not full year of production)
2017 - 581 units ($30K rebates)
2018 - 170 units ($20K rebates started in spring/early summer), no change from 2017
2019 - 238 units, ($20K rebates started in March) with mild refresh and sales decrease of 59% compared to 2017 sales
2020 - 125 units estimated (continued $20K rebate), decrease of 50% in sales compared to 2019
The disturbing trend is the 59% decrease from 2017 to 2019 and another 50% decrease to 2020. A mild refresh bumps up the number from 2018 to 2019. The smaller than expected market caught Honda by surprise, hence they had to react with PMC editions.
From a product side, they are learning a hard lesson that limited buyer are willing to pony up Porsche & McLaren money for a Japanese supercar, irregardless that it is a budget 918. You and I like this car but there are not enough of us to get their payback. So they missed the mark. They invested $70 Million for PMC. That is just the factory, which may not include supplier tooling, nor does it include development cost. I'll estimate total investment at $125 million for this program and if they generate at least $50K profit for each NSX, it would take them 2500 units to payoff the investment and at the projected 800 units a year, this is 3 year payback, which is about right for this industry. Total global sales may be close to 2500 now, however, they are not getting their $50K profit with all the incentives they had. So they have a few options:
1. Continue down this path of death spiral in sales by not updating it and build more PMC red & orange paint specials for mainstream products.
2. Throw a few more million in development and tooling to get where NSX needs to be. Areas of improvement commonly noted are interior & exterior styling updates, more power, better engine sound and a higher tune variant. The higher tune variant will cost more but it will be incremental sales.
3. Reduce cost - Bring Cosworth block and heads in house or additional changes for cost reduction. They won't move production facility to Suzuka until sales dwindles and production winds down like they did with 1st gen NSX and s2000, which started production in Tochigi but finished their last runs in Suzuka plant. Tochigi later became a manufacturing research center and was hit in 2011 by the earthquake which also led to Fukushima's nuclear incident.
4. Generate additional sales volume by offering a cost reduced variant to bring in buyer from a lower price segment. Change Cosworth to a high tune variant of TLX 3.0 Turbo V6 and/or remove front motors. Or make an S2000 successor in the same facility.
I think it will be combination of 2 and 3 to keep car competitive and keep price point where it is now. Option 4 is possible but speculative. I'm also hearing about E-turbos using e-motors to spool up turbine before exhaust gas take over. They are working out the heat issues with E motor being mounted so close to turbo.
From a design standpoint, They won't keep NSX in current form using 2016 Civic head unit and and missing all the Honda sensing/AcuraWatch safety suite (not that I care for that). If they are going to redo headunit, the interior dash will be redone along with climate controls and perhaps add the controversial Acura touchpad or the next generation of that. I prefer rotary dial like BMWs idrive since it minimizes distraction. Interior will need more storage and a more premium look on par with the price tag. Don't compare the interior to McLaren or Audi. Use the LC500 as benchmark for premium interior feel, not necessary the same layout or luxury quotient because LC500 is a GT car.
The exterior needs a refresh to set design direction for next generation Acuras and make room on front fascia to package the radar if they can't figure out how to design it behind the emblem without having to put a plexiglass in front of it, which is an eyesore on the 2021 TLX. Lastly, there is too much fancy plastic to cover up the engine, even if it is CF. The designer got Doc Brown's inspiration and wanted the flux capacitor look under the hatch. How about no! I want to see the engine with different colors of shiny polished aluminum, black paint, and red valve covers with varying complex textures akin to 80s Japanese motorycles engines before they faded to unfinished aluminum because fairings covered them up starting with the Hurricane/CBR. The JNC1 engine is boring to look at because it has one color and no texture.
In current form, the NSX is a good car. I desire better sound from a home grown engine (not something that can be cured with aftermarket exhaust), less weight by gutting the front motors, and some improvement in the interior. With this in place, hopefully it will make Honda whole from an investment return perspective and offer more choices and improvements for Honda and sports car enthusiasts.
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I am a "first gen - version NA2 2002-newer guy" but I enjoyed the stuffings out of your piece above. Digestible and well thought out. Thank you.
You miss your 2002 Silverstone/silver?
^^^:applouse: thanks for the color. At this rate, I'll be hard pressed to order one until I find out about the refresh. Late October/November '21 timeline?
Interesting ideas. You mentioned that your expertise is product development. However you did not specify coming from the auto industry, so I will assume you were from another industry. I am not saying that your take is outlandish but your suggesting expertise and then not qualifying it. I cannot say that I know what is in Acura/Honda’s head. However I spent many years calling on the Auto industry as a manufacturer of electronic materials. I can tell you that Honda marches to the beat of a different drummer. They like Toyota create their own reality and have the magic to make it happen. Neither is perfect for sure, but they do behave very differently compared to other auto manufacturers. They are both steeped in tradition, pride, and a belief in themselves that no American Auto manufacturer understands nor can duplicate. They will tow the company line when most lesser souls would abandon ship.
Acura/Honda look at things differently then most US businesses. I can recall when a President of Toyota said he did not care what the stock price was. Trust me when I say that no American company would ever suggest that which is one of the major reasons our organizations are so screwed up. That is a whole different story.
let me comment on you analysis of the production numbers:
“Let's look at US sales, again it represent at least 50% of global volume:
2016 - 269 units (first year, not full year of production)
2017 - 581 units ($30K rebates)
2018 - 170 units ($20K rebates started in spring/early summer), no change from 2017
2019 - 238 units, ($20K rebates started in March) with mild refresh and sales decrease of 59% compared to 2017 sales
2020 - 125 units estimated (continued $20K rebate), decrease of 50% in sales compared to 2019”
I would like to take a different approach.
2016-269 units
2017-581 units
2018-170 units plus the units from 2017 that represented Dealer purchased vehicles for sale
2019-238 units
2020-125 units impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic
I suggest that when you look at actual customer purchases rather than sales for dealer stock that the number of NSXs acquired by customers is much more consistent across the various years that the car has been available. What does that mean? I think it says that the yearly sales of cars has not been as volatile as you might suggest.
Profit from vehicle sales is concentrated in SUVs like RDX and MDX. So making special editions borrows some of the glamour associated with the NSX. Why not? The NSX represents more than a car for Acura/Honda. So using the magic makes really good marketing sense rather then an attempt to minimize the loss as you suggest.
Dropping the front electric motors is not going to happen on this car. If you understood automotive development costs you would not suggest this. Acura could reduce the weight of some of the components in the car and at the same time improve performance. I do not personally object to the interior. I like the upgraded stereo. I think the quality of the components is appropriate.
May I suggest that we collectively take a look back on Acura given what we now know about the 91 to 2005 NSX. How many of you think Acura/Honda failed as a result of that car? I believe that the NSX solidified the memory and was a plus not a negative. The same thing is happening now. Sports cars are not a large segment of the automotive market and will continue to diminish in the years to come. Tesla used its $100,000 sports car to start the company. They are now hinting at a $200,000 car with 0 to 60 at under 2 seconds. Trust me Tesla will make their money on the other cars and trucks in their portfolio. Again that is the auto industry.
Lastly, I gotta say the suggestion that people in the US are not committed or don’t work hard is plain bullshit. Who in Acura/Honda told you that story? I bet no one within leadership at Acura/Honda told you this.
The NSX GT race car is doing well from my understanding and is not a failure.
l guess I am asking you how much of what you stated is your opinion and how much is fact? Are you that disappointed in the NC1 you currently own?
Acura/Honda look at things differently then most US businesses. I can recall when a President of Toyota said he did not care what the stock price was. Trust me when I say that no American company would ever suggest that which is one of the major reasons our organizations are so screwed up. That is a whole different story.
let me comment on you analysis of the production numbers:
“Let's look at US sales, again it represent at least 50% of global volume:
2016 - 269 units (first year, not full year of production)
2017 - 581 units ($30K rebates)
2018 - 170 units ($20K rebates started in spring/early summer), no change from 2017
2019 - 238 units, ($20K rebates started in March) with mild refresh and sales decrease of 59% compared to 2017 sales
2020 - 125 units estimated (continued $20K rebate), decrease of 50% in sales compared to 2019”
I would like to take a different approach.
2016-269 units
2017-581 units
2018-170 units plus the units from 2017 that represented Dealer purchased vehicles for sale
2019-238 units
2020-125 units impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic
I suggest that when you look at actual customer purchases rather than sales for dealer stock that the number of NSXs acquired by customers is much more consistent across the various years that the car has been available. What does that mean? I think it says that the yearly sales of cars has not been as volatile as you might suggest.
Profit from vehicle sales is concentrated in SUVs like RDX and MDX. So making special editions borrows some of the glamour associated with the NSX. Why not? The NSX represents more than a car for Acura/Honda. So using the magic makes really good marketing sense rather then an attempt to minimize the loss as you suggest.
Dropping the front electric motors is not going to happen on this car. If you understood automotive development costs you would not suggest this. Acura could reduce the weight of some of the components in the car and at the same time improve performance. I do not personally object to the interior. I like the upgraded stereo. I think the quality of the components is appropriate.
May I suggest that we collectively take a look back on Acura given what we now know about the 91 to 2005 NSX. How many of you think Acura/Honda failed as a result of that car? I believe that the NSX solidified the memory and was a plus not a negative. The same thing is happening now. Sports cars are not a large segment of the automotive market and will continue to diminish in the years to come. Tesla used its $100,000 sports car to start the company. They are now hinting at a $200,000 car with 0 to 60 at under 2 seconds. Trust me Tesla will make their money on the other cars and trucks in their portfolio. Again that is the auto industry.
Lastly, I gotta say the suggestion that people in the US are not committed or don’t work hard is plain bullshit. Who in Acura/Honda told you that story? I bet no one within leadership at Acura/Honda told you this.
The NSX GT race car is doing well from my understanding and is not a failure.
l guess I am asking you how much of what you stated is your opinion and how much is fact? Are you that disappointed in the NC1 you currently own?
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To have a new one installed at the dealer costs $75k. :hopelessness:
Thanks for your response above, [MENTION=6718]drmanny3[/MENTION]. You wrote many of the things I was thinking, but with a credibility I can't duplicate. [MENTION=6490]Silver F16[/MENTION] may be right in his opinions and predictions, but my guesses are more in line with yours.
Obviously you would not replace the entire engine. I just priced out at discount what major components would cost. Engine block, both heads, pistons, connecting rods, cams, crank, turbos, and that alone came out to $85,000 discounted by around 20+% I am thinking one could buy a short block or long block, but really don't know. I bet not many have ever been ordered. As you can imagine the Heads are really expensive listing at $36,000 each. They say when you replace a car by individual parts it costs at least 4X or more.
Piston Set, Special[NSX | 2017 |$1316.31part Rod Set, Connecting $1927.77 Crankshaft$3374.57 Block Kit, Cylinder$13189.40 Cylinder Head Assy., R.$27292.97 Cylinder Head Assy., L.$27215.50 Camshaft, R. Inlet $1177.93 Camshaft, R. Exhaust$1177.93 Camshaft, L. Inlet$1177.93 Camshaft, L. Exhaust$1177.93 Turbocharger Assy., R.$2077.89 Turbocharger Assy., L $2104.54 Electronic Control Throttle $515.73 Manifold, Inlet$1297.59
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- Joined
- 4 October 2002
- Messages
- 569
Don't wait too long if you want to buy one. I doubt the refresh version will have any incentives or any that is as sweet as the $20k - $30K. You don't want to wind up like me, sitting on the sideline watching modern cars go by. The engineer in me sometimes get caught with analysis paralysis.
I was around when Prime started and spent more time reading than posting. I didn't start posting until 2002. My car was a Sebring Silver from the first year of production. NSX community first started around mid-1990s with the list server. I'd come back home from work and get 30-40 emails talking about the car. That's how it was back then before forums existed. The very first NSXPO kicked off in 1997 in Denver. My wife and I made it to the 2nd one in Columbus Ohio and a couple more after that.
When kids came in to our lives, I didn't see the need for the car anymore nor will have much time to drive it hence I sold it. I still had my CBR so I can still fulfill the need. Couple years go by and I realize it was a mistake to sell. I'd spend the next decade looking on and off for one of museum quality. In 2008, I came across Zanardi 13 in the dead of winter in the Midwest, on sale for $55k with 10K miles. Yes, I know how much they are worth now. It was snowing that day but I dropped in the dealership anyway. The car looked perfect and owner traded it in for either a Stradale or Challenge. I sat on a decision contemplating the market crash and that my company was closing its doors. It was a tough time for the automotive industry. I called the dealership 3 days later only to find out it was sold.
I have since checked out the Cayman GTS and a 991.2 GT3. Both were good cars and the GT3 engine is spectacular as the revs climb. I like them but I didn't love them, hence I wasn't going to throw money at it. My son is now an adult and is a car fanatic as well. He keeps kicking my ass for selling the car. So yes, I do miss the car. Like a proud father memorizing my kids' birthday and social security number, I still remember all 17 digits of the VIN number on the NSX. I was cranky the night I sold it. My wife asked me what was wrong and I broke down realizing I let something go that I was passionate about. Ten years later, I'd wind up doing this emotional roller coaster all over again when I gave my CBR to my close friend because I no longer ride it much and I was no longer a spring chicken where a fall could now break my bones and I didn't want to burden my wife to take care of me if that happened.
I may have mentioned that I can no longer drive a stick shift on a daily basis or one with had a heavy clutch. I hurt my back 1.5 years ago so pushing the clutch aggravates it and results in nerve pain on my leg. I still have an IS300 with a manual trans sporting a classic 2JZ inline 6. I drive it once a week to remind me how fun analog cars are and how great the visibility is with huge windows and a low belt line. You can guess which car my son takes when he goes out.
I like the NC1 NSX a lot but I haven't grown to love it. Do you marry someone you like or only the one you love? The car is heavy for it no longer dances like a ballerina on it light feet and missing is the granular steering feedback from the NA1 manual rack. The NC1 is complicated and because I work on all my cars, my rides do not go into the shop for anything other than a clutch job or warranty work. I've even done the valve adjustment myself on the NA1. The NC1 will be more involved to maintain and if I buy one, hopefully I won't keep it around for 75K miles when the dreaded engine-out valve adjustment is required. It is a 28 some hour job and definitely not something I want to do nor do I feel qualified for. Perhaps I have come to the age I need to let go of control and hand over the keys to a mechanic to service my car and a landscaper to mow my lawn.
I realize the NA1/2 NSX formula may not return in all its glory. I need to get over the fact that while Porsche can still build a lightweight sports car that revs to 9000 rpm whereas Honda won't because they have moved on and are looking at E-propulsion to be immersed to their DNA. These technologies keep making cars heavier and less engaging to drive. My friend was with me the day that I picked up the Sebring silver NSX. He spent more time driving my car that day than I did. Fast forward a couple decades later, he was with me again in 2017 when we stepped in the showroom to see the NC1 up close for the first time. We looked at it from different angles taking our time to draw our conclusions. A sales advisor finally came by and asked how we liked the car. My friend told him that seeing the new NSX reminded him of running into his high school girlfriend some 25 years later, for the NSX has now grown in stature and mass. Furthermore, the development team had changed the formula. It is now bigger, faster and more capable, yet lacking in tactility and driver engagement. Is it just as fun and just as desirable? I suspect the answer will be different from one person to another.
The Honda Japanese team have rolled up their sleeves, we'll see what they will deliver, hopefully in the coming year.
I was around when Prime started and spent more time reading than posting. I didn't start posting until 2002. My car was a Sebring Silver from the first year of production. NSX community first started around mid-1990s with the list server. I'd come back home from work and get 30-40 emails talking about the car. That's how it was back then before forums existed. The very first NSXPO kicked off in 1997 in Denver. My wife and I made it to the 2nd one in Columbus Ohio and a couple more after that.
When kids came in to our lives, I didn't see the need for the car anymore nor will have much time to drive it hence I sold it. I still had my CBR so I can still fulfill the need. Couple years go by and I realize it was a mistake to sell. I'd spend the next decade looking on and off for one of museum quality. In 2008, I came across Zanardi 13 in the dead of winter in the Midwest, on sale for $55k with 10K miles. Yes, I know how much they are worth now. It was snowing that day but I dropped in the dealership anyway. The car looked perfect and owner traded it in for either a Stradale or Challenge. I sat on a decision contemplating the market crash and that my company was closing its doors. It was a tough time for the automotive industry. I called the dealership 3 days later only to find out it was sold.
I have since checked out the Cayman GTS and a 991.2 GT3. Both were good cars and the GT3 engine is spectacular as the revs climb. I like them but I didn't love them, hence I wasn't going to throw money at it. My son is now an adult and is a car fanatic as well. He keeps kicking my ass for selling the car. So yes, I do miss the car. Like a proud father memorizing my kids' birthday and social security number, I still remember all 17 digits of the VIN number on the NSX. I was cranky the night I sold it. My wife asked me what was wrong and I broke down realizing I let something go that I was passionate about. Ten years later, I'd wind up doing this emotional roller coaster all over again when I gave my CBR to my close friend because I no longer ride it much and I was no longer a spring chicken where a fall could now break my bones and I didn't want to burden my wife to take care of me if that happened.
I may have mentioned that I can no longer drive a stick shift on a daily basis or one with had a heavy clutch. I hurt my back 1.5 years ago so pushing the clutch aggravates it and results in nerve pain on my leg. I still have an IS300 with a manual trans sporting a classic 2JZ inline 6. I drive it once a week to remind me how fun analog cars are and how great the visibility is with huge windows and a low belt line. You can guess which car my son takes when he goes out.
I like the NC1 NSX a lot but I haven't grown to love it. Do you marry someone you like or only the one you love? The car is heavy for it no longer dances like a ballerina on it light feet and missing is the granular steering feedback from the NA1 manual rack. The NC1 is complicated and because I work on all my cars, my rides do not go into the shop for anything other than a clutch job or warranty work. I've even done the valve adjustment myself on the NA1. The NC1 will be more involved to maintain and if I buy one, hopefully I won't keep it around for 75K miles when the dreaded engine-out valve adjustment is required. It is a 28 some hour job and definitely not something I want to do nor do I feel qualified for. Perhaps I have come to the age I need to let go of control and hand over the keys to a mechanic to service my car and a landscaper to mow my lawn.
I realize the NA1/2 NSX formula may not return in all its glory. I need to get over the fact that while Porsche can still build a lightweight sports car that revs to 9000 rpm whereas Honda won't because they have moved on and are looking at E-propulsion to be immersed to their DNA. These technologies keep making cars heavier and less engaging to drive. My friend was with me the day that I picked up the Sebring silver NSX. He spent more time driving my car that day than I did. Fast forward a couple decades later, he was with me again in 2017 when we stepped in the showroom to see the NC1 up close for the first time. We looked at it from different angles taking our time to draw our conclusions. A sales advisor finally came by and asked how we liked the car. My friend told him that seeing the new NSX reminded him of running into his high school girlfriend some 25 years later, for the NSX has now grown in stature and mass. Furthermore, the development team had changed the formula. It is now bigger, faster and more capable, yet lacking in tactility and driver engagement. Is it just as fun and just as desirable? I suspect the answer will be different from one person to another.
The Honda Japanese team have rolled up their sleeves, we'll see what they will deliver, hopefully in the coming year.
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