race pad and rotor

[NSXDreamer2]

I just bought a set of Panther Plus pads from SOS. This is for my up coming track event on Wednesday.

Here's some of my question regarding preparing for the event, please give me some advise:

1. I had a brand new set of tires, I knew I had to break in 'em (take the protective mold off) How many miles generally do I need, or if I drive more aggresively, would it wear out faster??

2. I had Stop tech rotors and their recomment bed-in is 10 60-10mph stop 25mins cooling then another session.. While the Pather plus had different bed in procedure, which one should I followed??

3. For track driving, is bleeding after you bed in pads neccessary?

4. after track day, I supposed to put the Axxis brake pads(street set up) back on, now, I have do bed-in again, right??

5. I had a very hard time doing bed-in "legally", so it does take a lot of effort, (like woke up at 3am and crossing finger no cops show up...)

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

I just bought a set of Panther Plus pads from SOS. This is for my up coming track event on Wednesday.

Here's some of my question regarding preparing for the event, please give me some advise:

1. I had a brand new set of tires, I knew I had to break in 'em (take the protective mold off) How many miles generally do I need, or if I drive more aggresively, would it wear out faster??

About 200 miles regular street driving.

2. I had Stop tech rotors and their recomment bed-in is 10 60-10mph stop 25mins cooling then another session.. While the Pather plus had different bed in procedure, which one should I followed??

I assume you have been driving the rotors on the street for at least 200 miles? IF you do, it already bed-in.

3. For track driving, is bleeding after you bed in pads neccessary?

no. If the pedal feels fine.

4. after track day, I supposed to put the Axxis brake pads(street set up) back on, now, I have do bed-in again, right??

no you don't. Bedding for street is not really necessary anyway. But you only need bedding for new pads. Some pads comes already burnish, like most Hawk pads and performance fricition, so you need not to bed them in.

 

[RP-Motorsports]

Don't lose any sleep about pad bed in. I never bed pads in for track use! You will instantly bed in a brand new set of pads in the first 50 feet of your first threshold braking. Rotors on the other hand (unless OEM) have coatings on them such as zinc. This needs to be worn off by general street driving. A few days of normal street driving/braking will wear this coating off, so bare metal is now exposed.

Have fun!

 

[nsxtasy]

Bedding IS important for track use, as outlined on Stoptech's website here. The purpose of bedding is not only to get the surfaces (of the rotor and pad) to mate, but also to leave a uniform layer of pad material on the surface of the rotor. This will help prevent brake "shudder" which would otherwise develop more easily.

The bedding procedures for the Stoptech rotors and for the Panther Plus pads are very similar - basically, a series of mild stops, and then a series of very hard stops (hard enough to get the brakes hot), and then the car must immediately sit overnight to allow the newly deposited rotor surface to cool.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

For unburnished pads it is essential you bed them in. Otherwise you WILL experience green fade if driven hard.

 

[NSXDreamer2]

andrie, is the panther plus considered unburnished then??

I had experience rotor shudder in my daily driven Honda Accord and I will do anything to prevent that happening on my nsx...

Guess I should do the bed-in anyway then... here's a new problem, it's going to rain until Tuesday night, (Track Day is Wednesday), that basically leave me 2 choices on bedding-in the pads.

either I'm going to wake up 3am before the driving event, or I have to do it in Rain on the day before.... Anything need to consider when bedding in pads in rain?? I'll suspect that it's harder to brake aggresively and bringing up the temp. Any suggestions??

 

[RP-Motorsports]

Bedding IS important for track use, as outlined on Stoptech's website here. The purpose of bedding is not only to get the surfaces (of the rotor and pad) to mate, but also to leave a uniform layer of pad material on the surface of the rotor. This will help prevent brake "shudder" which would otherwise develop more easily.

The bedding procedures for the Stoptech rotors and for the Panther Plus pads are very similar - basically, a series of mild stops, and then a series of very hard stops (hard enough to get the brakes hot), and then the car must immediately sit overnight to allow the newly deposited rotor surface to cool.

when you put new pads on a non-new rotor, mating is all that is needed. Done in 50 ft.

With new pads AND rotors, I stated that a few days of street driving will suffice. I don't know about how you understand what I said, but that is at least 2 nights of cool-down, and I don't know how you drive yours, but in a day with mine, I have weak stops, and hard stops in any normal day.

 

[nsxtasy]

is the panther plus considered unburnished then??

ALL pads are "unburnished", meaning that they will fade the first couple of times you get them up to track speeds. You may encounter green pad fade the first session (or even two) on the track, even after bedding them, but it will go away after that.

when you put new pads on a non-new rotor, mating is all that is needed.

Absolutely not true.

Please discuss this with Andie at Cobalt Friction, or with the folks at Stoptech, since you obviously have your mind all made up and won't believe anything from me...

 

[AATA]

I always thought all new pads should be bedded before use. I even bed the brakes on my daily driver. One time we forgot to bed the pads and after one session the brakes had a very bad shutter. We installed a new set of pads (different compound) completed the proper bedding procedures and the shutter went away. I haven't looked at the instructions for a while on a set of new brake pads but I think they usually make this very clear. We are using Hawk pads and still bed them. Maybe this isn't neccessary with the Hawk pads, but the brakes seem to feel better if we do.

 

[NSXDreamer2]

now this is not happening with the nsx

my daily driven Accord had a set of aftermarket Wilwood brakes (13"rotors with 4 piston wilwood caliper) The bed-in is not performed right by the installer... (I wasn't too technical inclined to do the brake jobs...)

Anyway, this set of brake is funny, it will shutter once a while and it only happens when I do moderate firm braking... then it will shutter very bad in moderate to light braking... However, it won't shutter if I just apply more pressure to it, I was wondering if it's the rotor problem or the pad problems... ( I don't think the 'c' wilwood compound is good for street use, but they are supplied with the kit.)

I was going to get a brand new set of rotors, the vendor agreed to send me a new set of rotors at cost, (long story, as I suspected the rotor was scored due to wrong hub rings and caliper braket supplied), I just have to spare some money to place the order and get a fresh set of rotors to find out what's going on.

any thoughts??

 

[2slow2speed]

either I'm going to wake up 3am before the driving event, or I have to do it in Rain on the day before.... Anything need to consider when bedding in pads in rain?? I'll suspect that it's harder to brake aggresively and bringing up the temp. Any suggestions??

Just bed the pads in on your way to the track, do the recommended set of stops and then instead of just letting the car's brake cool down by stopping, keep driving to the track event (the Aero Rotors will cool down fairly quickly by themselves).

Bedding in the rain can cause problems if you have water splashing on the rotor surface via the air deflectors while you are trying to bed the pads/rotors, as such you should try to avoid that if possible.

Ken

 

[RP-Motorsports]

http://www.pagidusa.com/bedding_in_procedure.htm

Here is the procedeure. Note that it stresses "new" pads and "new" rotors. Thus my comment above that a few days of normal driving will suffice.

"non-new" rotors will be well suited to accept a pad "out of box" especially if the same exact brand as you are removing.

Even with their reccomendation of "new" pads and "new" rotors, it can be done in about 2 min.

As Ken (2slow...) said bed them in on the way to the track.

I still do fresh pad changes at the track, and get them bedded in on the first warm up lap.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

ALL pads are "unburnished", meaning that they will fade the first couple of times you get them up to track speeds. You may encounter green pad fade the first session (or even two) on the track, even after bedding them, but it will go away after that.

This is not true. Some Hawk pads and performance fricition pads are burnished. Meaning they were bedded in from the factory and need not to be bed in. In particular I k now for sure are Hawk HT10 and PF97. It even said so in their instruction.

 

[nsxtasy]

This is not true. Some Hawk pads and performance fricition pads are burnished. Meaning they were bedded in from the factory and need not to be bed in. In particular I k now for sure are Hawk HT10 and PF97. It even said so in their instruction.

My apologies, and thanks for the correction, Andrie. I haven't tried these particular pads and didn't know that they are available that way. Let's hope other manufacturers follow their example and offer burnished pads as well - great idea!

 

[DangerMoney]

The Porterfield R4 requires bedding-in and an overnight cool down.

I've tried bedding them in on the way to work in the morning and they were not at maximum grip when went I home. During another bedding-in run I bedded them in, drove a few miles without touching the brakes and then as an experiment, started getting on the brakes hard to see what would happen. What happened was the pads went right back to green fade. After an overnight cool-down they gripped normally. I would never take a brand new (unbedded) R4 set to the track.