Suspension Lowering

[gijoe]

Need some help. I LOVE the lowered look of the NSX but can anyone tell me any MAJOR benefits ?? Does the car tend to bottom out alot more?? Any help is appreciated. It looks alot sleaker and more exotic like and I am considering doing it.

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[MYNSX]

Unless your racing seriously as far as performance on the street the lowering improves performance very little but when racing a little is a lot (the difference between winning and losing if only by portions of car lengths in many cases)
I started doing the same research and most street enthusiuasts did it for the "look" /and it does look awesome."But" as is my NSX gives me no speed bump problems no driveway problems so I left well enough alone.
If I was feeling impulsive I'd probably do it.On the other hand. I drive and frequently forget to pay attention to little details like driveways and would probably scew up the nose.

;0

;0

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[NSX 3.0]

I think the car looks twice as nice lowered I went with Eibachs and Konis it only lowered it 1.1/4 inches it handles better and rides just fine never bottom out either.

Steven 91 Blk/Ivory

 

[Roy]

The most common reason for lowering a car for the street is aesthetics (e.g., loose the SUV look). If you are racing; spring rates, ride height, shock settings, and anti-sway bar settings are all variables to achieve (chase) the characteristics that you are looking for at a given track.

There are several good options for lowering a street car.
1. Zanardi spring shock combination, about 0.4-inch drop.
2. Bilstein shocks, lower spring perch, stock springs, about 0.8-inch drop
3. Eibach springs with Bilstein or Koni shocks, about 1.25-inch drop
4. H&R springs with Koni or Bilstein shocks, about 1.5-inch drop
5. Tein, Ground Control, or other “coil over” setups, which provide adjustable ride height.

There are threads for each of these setups and there is no right answer, only the right answer for you. Option 2 is the stock setup and therefore feels almost identical with stock (different shocks). Option 3 feels very much like the stock setup. For descriptions of the other options, check out the threads on this site and other sites. You have to remember when reading them, is the ride quality that is acceptable to one person may be much too stiff for the next person.

I chose door number 2, with late model (1997 or later) springs and feel happy with the look and ride, but to each his/her own. At least half the fun is the quest.

[This message has been edited by Roy (edited 31 December 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Roy (edited 31 December 2001).]

 

[NSXTC]

If you are serious about handling, I would not lower the car any more than the Zanardi suspension (about 4/10" of an inch). Typical third party aftermarket lowering kits, while popular with the street scene, actually hurt the high-speed handling characteristics of the car. Once the car is lowered more than about half an inch from stock, the car's sophisticated suspension geometry is shot. Most noticeable is the excessive amount of rear negative camber, which can no longer be dialed out on the alignment rack. That being said, as far as most drivers will ever be able to tell, the car will still handle fine on the street. When you get to the track and really start to take the car to it's limit, you won't like it....

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Marc -- I'd have to disagree with your comment. Suspension drops lower than 4/10" of an inch will not result in poor handling with proper alignment specs. I think what you are refering to is springs such as H&R which lower the car 1.5-1.8" resulting in much more negative than stock rear camber. Even with this negative camber, a car can be dialed in very well with proper alignment, especially with proper tires. I personally run a 1.2" drop in the front with 1" drop in the rear with my TEIN suspension to maximize front downforce. I'd love to go lower, however, the large tires I run in the front with the stock fenders prohibit me from doing so.

For reference, the RealTime NSX running on street tires looked to be at about a 2" drop with 2.5 degrees of negative camber in the rear. If you tell them that lowering their car to that height is affecting their performance, I think they'll laugh at you.

-- Chris

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[NSXTC]

Marc -- I'd have to disagree with your comment. Suspension drops lower than 4/10" of an inch will not result in poor handling with proper alignment specs. I think what you are refering to is springs such as H&R which lower the car 1.5-1.8" resulting in much more negative than stock rear camber.

Hey Chris, you are right- it's a being a bit over-inclusive to say that anything over 4/10" screws it up... I was really referring to the H&R and Eibach, both of which have had really bad reviews from friends who put them on their cars and like to drive on the track.


Even with this negative camber, a car can be dialed in very well with proper alignment, especially with proper tires.


It's much more than just a question of not being able to dial in the correct camber. It's a question of the overall suspension geometry.


For reference, the RealTime NSX running on street tires looked to be at about a 2" drop with 2.5 degrees of negative camber in the rear. If you tell them that lowering their car to that height is affecting their performance, I think they'll laugh at you.


You aren't comparing apples with apples when talking about PD's car!

Hard to tell their settings from looking at pictures, but I do know from a conversation with Andrew, their chief mechanic, that PD is running a fully adjustable system, including ride height. They did not simply throw-on some lowering sprrings. They Actually did some major suspension re-engineering. Here is picture of PD's rear suspension that I took last year at the Speedvision race in Ft. Worth:
<IMG SRC=http://www.1017.org/nsx/ALMS01/P0001901.JPG>




[This message has been edited by NSXTC (edited 04 January 2002).]

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

You aren't comparing apples with apples when talking about PD's car!

I was just responding to this:

If you are serious about handling, I would not lower the car any more than the Zanardi suspension (about 4/10" of an inch).

I've driven both the Eibach and H&R at the track. I don't think it's a spring problem alone, but it is how one component affects a very interdependent system as the NSXes suspension.

I don't like either the H&R spring (spring lowers ride height too much) or the Eibach (progressive rate resultings in varied handling through out the load range.

ScienceofSpeed is working on bringing a low cost linear spring to the market that will offer the ability to slightly lower ride height while being well matched to the stock shocks.

Cheers,
-- Chris

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[NSXTC]

Originally posted by ScienceofSpeed:
ScienceofSpeed is working on bringing a low cost linear spring to the market that will offer the ability to slightly lower ride height while being well matched to the stock shocks.

Cheers,
-- Chris

Sweet! That sounds like it will be a very nice product. The reason why so many people rushed to get the Zanardi suspension once word got out about it was because nothing else like your upcoming suspension was avaliable. I would still try to emulate what the factory has done with the Type S (Zanardi) and / or Type R to some degree as far as spring rates and total amount of lowering is concerned. The engineers at Honda is very anal about the ride height:
<img src=http://www.1017.org/nsx/rideheight.jpg>

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

The Zanardi/Type-S suspension is exactly what I had in mind. I was amazed how well the Zanardi I drove handled (though it was quite stiff). I have not yet driven a Type-R suspension, however, a few friends have, and claim it is one of the best suspensions they have driven.

-- Chris

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[sjs]

I'd take serious issue with the suggestion that the extra negative camber from lowering a car results in worse handling. On the contrary, the 2-3 degrees of negative is one of the benefits if you don’t mind the tire wear. However, as also stated, there are other geometry issues involved, and on those I agree. The most obvious symptom the driver can observe is the increased bump steer, but they all stem from the fact that the suspension now begins it's arc from closer to horizontal rather than drooped. If you could shift the suspension pivots up the same amount as the car is lowered, all would be well.

However, this is where stiffer shocks and anti-sway bars come into play. By reducing the amount of vertical suspension travel, you reduce the degree to which the suspension exceeds the designed arc, allowing it to operate at near its designed position under load. That doesn't eliminate all the issues but it reduces their impact compared to lowering the car with no other changes. As in most things, balance is important.

All that said, I have seen little hard evidence that the net effect of such changes on an NSX is all that substantial in the hands of a good driver. Given a bit of tuning with different anti-sway bars, the stock setup allows the stock tires to achieve their potential. I have the H&R/Koni + bars setup and prefer it to stock, largely because it's more pleasant to drive fast even if it may not be appreciably faster. I’ll switch this winter to one of the adjustable ride height system this winter, if I can decide which on to get.