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temporary loss of power during acceleration :(

Joined
26 May 2014
Messages
227
Hello Guys

as the title says, my car suffers from temporary loss of power when accelerating.

The issue existed already when I got the car. I swapped the totally clogged up air filter for a new one and cleaned the air temperature sensor. This solved it for more than a year and about 6000km. The engine did not miss a beat. Made factory power figures on the dyno.

Its a 92 manual coupe. Has seen about 235tkm of road in its whole life. Engine is totally stock beside exhaust.

After driving the car for two weeks daily and about 850km the issue started again past friday on my trip home. During the two weeks I had a CEL 3 times. Checked the codes, both oxygen sensors. Not surprising as the sensors are 24 years and 230tkm old. I had experienced this temporary power loss with an old civic that had o2 sensor issues as well so I thought its probably related to it.

On the weekend I swapped the boat anchor headers for some topspeed ones and a set of highflow cats. Installed both new O2 sensors (Denso). Beside the fact that the Topspeed headers are the biggest peace of crap I have ever seen, the difference in power they make is instantly noticeable.

Sadly though, the issue got worse.
On half throttle acceleration, it runs fine.
little over half throttle it instantly pulls hard (harder than before with the boat anchors) but looses like 100hp after half a second. barely accelerates for 3 seconds and then power comes back to normal instantly.
spontaneous full throttle in first when rolling below 3000 rpm generates a hesitation before it starts to accelerate and do the same as at over half throttle.
When hitting vtec it pulls hard like it has never done before.

No CEL, checked for codes, none.
Engine runs smooth and seems to idle more constant than before.

Any ideas?

Thanks
Bernhard
 
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are your fuel injectors original?
 
You're sure than TCS is not engaging, right? Same issue in second gear?

The issue is not gear dependent. Also when accelerating in third gear, it pulls, looses power noticeable, power comes back after a short time. I can deactivate the TCS for testing but I did not see the green light blinking. It also does not feel and sound like the TCS. TCS intervention feels like you are totally off the throttle and the car is only coasting any more.
It feels like the engine management reduces timing or it does not get enough fuel.

are your fuel injectors original?

Stock fuel system. Fuel filter was changed together with the air filter so its basically new.

Bernhard
 
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My WAG: the fuel pump or its resistor bypass circuit. Connect a gauge and check fuel pressures under acceleration.

thanks, I just ordered a fuel pressure gauge. Will report back when I did the measurements.

Bernhard

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EDIT:
Found the service bolt size in the manual. its 6mm. :D
 
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I bet $50 that it's the fuel pump. Try to bypass the fuel pump resistor and go for a drive again. Hesitation gone below 4-4.5k rpm or you feel definitly more torque below 4k rpm -> you need a new fuel pump.

The fuel pressure gauge will not show any anormality at idle. It's under load.
 
I had a feeling that I would have a closeup look at the tank in near future while I installed the front header :(

will measure the the fuel pressure and bypass the resistor for test purpose. Has anyone ever driven the car with a bypassed resistor for extended period? Can I finish the season like that? The car goes to hibernation mode anyway in about one month and I will probably don't drive more than 500km until then.

Bernhard

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I just found a denso replacement pump # 950-0196
anyone has experience with this? I don't want to modify the engine so anything that is comparable to the oem pump will do the job. This denso pump costs not even 1/10 of the oem pump. I read the thread about it but still I see no reason why a denso pump should be bad. Denso is a well known manufacturer.

Has anyone ever tried sourcing the oem pump directly from the manufacturer. I believe honda has not reinvented the fuel pump for the NSX. Most likely it's the same pump used in other Hondas of that era.

I dont want walbro. It's loud and fails. Been there, done that, never do it again.

Bernhard
 
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i don't know about the fuel pump,but i had good luck with a denso reman'd starter at 1/5 the cost of oem,also made by denso.i researched it first,and was convinced it was as good as,or maybe even exactly the same as oem
 
If your injectors are clogged no pump on earth is going to fix it.
 
Injector cleaning is on my list of winter projects.
I just hope to finish the season with the car in current configuration. Somehow. maybe with bridged resistor box when that is possible.

Bernhard
 
Has anyone ever driven the car with a bypassed resistor for extended period? Can I finish the season like that?
I've done that for a year or so.

You don't have clogged injectors if it's pulling above 4000 rpm or in VTEC like you describe. To rule this out you can do a simple emissions test which would reveal problems with them. The symptoms like you described are 100% fuel pump.
 
That's good news. So I can jumper the resistor box and finish the season easily. I have 6 month of winter to source a replacement pump and do the repair.

Bernhard
 
I agree that main relay and ignition switch are going bad over the time but with this description it doesn't get enough fuel below 4k rpm, so it's the fuel pump 100%. He would have described it differently if it was related to other things.

On half throttle acceleration, it runs fine.
little over half throttle it instantly pulls hard (harder than before with the boat anchors) but looses like 100hp after half a second. barely accelerates for 3 seconds and then power comes back to normal instantly.
spontaneous full throttle in first when rolling below 3000 rpm generates a hesitation before it starts to accelerate and do the same as at over half throttle.
When hitting vtec it pulls hard like it has never done before.
 
Main relay is also on my todo list for the winter. Done it many times on other Hondas. Its always the same with cracked solder joints. Nothing a good soldering tool can't fix. Good to do it before it lefts you stranded somewhere ...

Bad main relay will let the engine start for one second, than it dies and does not start any more. Mostly happens when you drive to local grocery store to buy dinner. Drives fine until you get there but when you get back in the car it won't start. 100% guaranteed to fail exactly if you buy jummy ice cream that melts because you can't get home fast :D

Bernhard
 
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"I just found a denso replacement pump # 950-0196 "
Is this the same one?
http://www.amazon.com/Denso-950-0196-Fuel-Pump/dp/B000PWT1YE
It can't be $25 or can it?
 
If the pump is used in many other vehicles as well such a low price is possible. Denso is a well known manufacturer.

Bernhard
 
Denso replacement 'normally' means that it's a direct replacement of a Denso but it's a copy and by no means an OEM Denso.
 
thanks guys!

You nailed it with the fuel pump.I shorted the resistor today and the car drives fine. Pump is noticeable louder when priming before start up. When the engine runs, the exhaust is louder anyway.

So I will finish the season like this and start sourcing replacement parts for the pump during the winter.

Bernhard
 
Thanks, been there, done that. It took me three years to isolate the problem with my fuel pump. Too bad nobody bet against it. :D

BTW I have an OEM fuel pump - 3 years old - for sale if you want to go with an OEM. I had this fitted before my CTSC install where I went for a Walbro. This is the OEM fuel pump out of a new Honda OEM part. Shipping from Switzerland to Austria is reasonable.
 
You got PM regarding the fuel pump :)

On the short 20 minutes test drive I noticed something else. The engine responds a lot better to tip in throttle than before. Don't know if that has something to do with the new headers/cats or is just due to the fuel pressure.
Anyway, before all that it was nearly impossible to make the rear end push sideways when powering out of a first gear corner. it would just hook up and go or the TCS kicked in hard. Now, the rear end moves sideways totally smooth and reacts instant to throttle changes. It feels like, the car has more torque instantly when opening the throttle.

Bernhard
 
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