Thoughts on "HYBRID" NSX

[TCroly]

I think that depends. If they're quoting just the battery or the battery and IPU in their figure. If so, then battery weight wouldn't double since two IPUs aren't needed. Still, my thoughts of "two pounds of battery per HP" seems fundamentally sound, if not a little high.

I don't think that you can count the weight of the motors as 'heavily' (no pun) as you are. We know they were going to do some kind of AWD with torque vectoring. The purely mechanical SH-AWD system has/had it's own weight penalty AND presented additional drivetrain losses as well. So, while it's a purely academic exercise at this time, we're really looking at the difference in weight (excluding batteries) between Mechanical AWD and Electrical AWD. I suspect it's a wash once you add in the driveshaft and three differentials. This of course brings us to the next question of whether it should be AWD at all, but that's a discussion for another thread.

I see what you are saying. If we start with the assumption that the car will be AWD, the weight and complexity of the hybrid approach is offset by it's simplicity and weight savings over a conventional AWD.

What I have not been convinced of however is whether I need/want AWD in my next NSX. So far the SH-AWD implementations, while innovative, have not set the industry on fire as a "must have" feature. But coupling it with microprocessor controlled electric motors might well set some kind of new benchmark. Then it is just a matter of now much additional power reserve you desire for added acceleration and that is where your 2 pounds per HP comes from. I think I understand now, very good!

I had not seen this explanation in C&D before, but it definately makes your point http://blog.caranddriver.com/acuras...l-power-the-rear-wheels-with-electric-motors/

 

[Colin]

I see what you are saying. If we start with the assumption that the car will be AWD, the weight and complexity of the hybrid approach is offset by it's simplicity and weight savings over a conventional AWD.

What I have not been convinced of however is whether I need/want AWD in my next NSX. So far the SH-AWD implementations, while innovative, have not set the industry on fire as a "must have" feature. But coupling it with microprocessor controlled electric motors might well set some kind of new benchmark. Then it is just a matter of now much additional power reserve you desire for added acceleration and that is where your 2 pounds per HP comes from. I think I understand now, very good!

I had not seen this explanation in C&D before, but it definately makes your point http://blog.caranddriver.com/acuras...l-power-the-rear-wheels-with-electric-motors/

Yes, that Car and Driver article was very helpful. I'm currently working (very late I know) on a review for the Tokyo motor show, and how one applies to Acuras plants in North America. I wanted to reference some of the information from the Tokyo motor show in my write up on Detroit but it's not done yet.

I was planning to touch on the new SH-AWD system and how it might apply to an NSX. As for the current "failure" of SH-AWD, the biggest shortcoming is the fact that you have to be applying power for it to start vectoring torque. What makes this unnatural is that you have to be on the throttle well before you apex a corner, something most drivers don't have the confidence to do.

 

[TCroly]

You know, as I consider the possibilities of this technology, I can see that combined with traction control a solution like this essentially drives the car through the corner for you. All the driver has to do is point the car in the desired direction and this system takes over maximizing adhesion and rotating the car and making the most of traction. Such a system could make mediocre drivers look like heroes.But the purist will argue that they would rather control the car rather than let the computer do the driving.

 

[Midnight_Raven]

Yes, that Car and Driver article was very helpful. I'm currently working (very late I know) on a review for the Tokyo motor show, and how one applies to Acuras plants in North America. I wanted to reference some of the information from the Tokyo motor show in my write up on Detroit but it's not done yet.

I was planning to touch on the new SH-AWD system and how it might apply to an NSX. As for the current "failure" of SH-AWD, the biggest shortcoming is the fact that you have to be applying power for it to start vectoring torque. What makes this unnatural is that you have to be on the throttle well before you apex a corner, something most drivers don't have the confidence to do.

I'm going to assume since the SH-AWD setup in the NSX will be augmented by 3 electric motors rather than through a driveshaft, that shortcoming/failure will not exists anymore. It would make sense you would have the rotation of the steering wheel active the electric motors so no throttle input would be needed for the torque vectoring effect.

Also in regards to weight of batteries I believe just last week I read about a company working on a design for a battery that uses air in it's design and cuts the weight down significantly yet increases storage capacity as well. I'll see if I can find it but if it's true Honda has options for lightweight batteries.

 

[Colin]

I'm going to assume since the SH-AWD setup in the NSX will be augmented by 3 electric motors rather than through a driveshaft, that shortcoming/failure will not exists anymore. It would make sense you would have the rotation of the steering wheel active the electric motors so no throttle input would be needed for the torque vectoring effect.

Also in regards to weight of batteries I believe just last week I read about a company working on a design for a battery that uses air in it's design and cuts the weight down significantly yet increases storage capacity as well. I'll see if I can find it but if it's true Honda has options for lightweight batteries.

Currently the most sophisticated version of SH-AWD uses wheelspeed sensors, steering wheel sensor, a yaw sensor, and little sensor that detects the amount of suspension deflection to determine what to do with the torque split(s).

Honda recently partnered with battery manufacturer Yasua to ensure a steady supply of batteries. Hopefully they'll be on the leading edge and could use these new technologies. However, considering how they like to 'control' things end to end, I'd bet that if they had to license something from someone else, they'd pass.

 

[Colin]

You know, as I consider the possibilities of this technology, I can see that combined with traction control a solution like this essentially drives the car through the corner for you. All the driver has to do is point the car in the desired direction and this system takes over maximizing adhesion and rotating the car and making the most of traction. Such a system could make mediocre drivers look like heroes.But the purist will argue that they would rather control the car rather than let the computer do the driving.

Yeah, I for one would miss the manual transmission. Otherwise, the other things are probably a good thing since 'most' can't drive anymore BUT the purists. Having said that, performance that was accessible by anybody, and reliability that meant you could drive it as a daily driver were also traits of the original NSX. If I remember correctly, back then, this trait was also criticized by 'purists' driving a 328 or 911 which were cars that 'real' drivers 'drove' (according to owners).

 

[Midnight_Raven]

Currently the most sophisticated version of SH-AWD uses wheelspeed sensors, steering wheel sensor, a yaw sensor, and little sensor that detects the amount of suspension deflection to determine what to do with the torque split(s).

Honda recently partnered with battery manufacturer Yasua to ensure a steady supply of batteries. Hopefully they'll be on the leading edge and could use these new technologies. However, considering how they like to 'control' things end to end, I'd bet that if they had to license something from someone else, they'd pass.

What I was replying to was your statement about how you have to apply power to start the torque vectoring. This new method with the electric motors should eliminate that since now you don't need to apply power with your foot. I don't doubt you it must use a lot of technology even through the mechanical method lol.

 

[sadlerau]

Having played with SH-AWD on the track in my '06 Legend, you can deactivate the VSA which allows much more freedom for the driver and what the car will let you do, like "throwing it in" so that the tail drifts out into the corner.

I'm sure if the Legend had the power it would have started to oversteer on corner exit. So I think it is possible for Honda to make the eSH-AWD work for the driver, without robbing him of too much play time.

 

[2slow2speed]

FWIW: Looks like McLaren will have a KERS based F1(street car) successor.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/20/mclaren-f1-successor-to-pack-kers-into-clean-sheet-design/

 

[young-nyc]

I also drive a Honda Cr-Z, although under powered, the car drives pretty well. I can't wait to see how the new NSX hybrid will perform.
I'm a big tech-geek, so the more technology the better, until of course it breaks down and by that time, hopefully I'll still have warranty.
I'm very happy with the Cr-Z and it's technology, but I have to say, if you push the car, the battery drains pretty quickly. I love the regenerative braking because it hardly leaves any brake dust for me to clean =)

The new NSX will weigh a bit more with the hybrid batteries,
so my philosophy, wear lighter clothes and lose more weight

Another reason i'm very interested in the Acura NSX is the added convenience features. I'm pretty positive it will have the smart key for keyless entry and push/start button ignition. The R8 was my favorite car, but unfortunately Audi has yet to upgrade any convenience features on their flagship model...what a shame.

 

[captainjman]

I don't understand why everyone seems so angry over the new car. We don't really know anything, and anything we have heard is most likely speculation or subject to change anyway. We have been asking for a new NSX for years and we finally got one. If the new NSX is not good you will save a lot of money by not wanting to buy it, and your current NSX value will either stay the exact same or increase because the new one sucks.

I personally don't care too much about my value, and hope the new NSX is amazing. But I am going to refrain from judgement until I see the finished product. I think it would be great to withhold negative or positive statements until then. Trust me, Honda is not looking at this post and deciding how big of a battery they are going to install based on your ideas and comments.

Give em some space, try to remain happy about the new NSX and then be surprised how good or bad it is. Its like xmas in my opinion. Sure, you could research what your parents were buying you, maybe sneak a peak while they were wrapping it, or look at their credit card statement and try to figure out what they bought by the total - or you can just enjoy xmas and be surprised. Lets look at Nikon camera's for example. Nikon came out of no where with a 36 megapixel camera that no one expected. All the chat rooms were complaining about the low Megapixel count. They spent hundreds of hours discussing something that never even happened.

 

[young-nyc]

Well said!