Waxing: How much is too much?

[Zanardi 50]

I've heard form a friend of mine who said that too frequent waxing is bad for the finish, esp. with hard waxes like carnauba. He recommends me to wax my car once every 5-6 months if I drive the car daily. Actually, I don't drive my Z very much (I've only logged in 4000 miles within the last 10 months of owning it). The car sees late daylight 30% of the time and only get rained on once. I've always go through the routine of dusting the car off after every driving session, regardless of how little miles I logged in, washes it once or twice a month and waxes it with Meguiar's #26 once every 2 months or even less, work and life permitting of course.

So my question is this: Do you think my waxing the car once a month is an overkill? Any comments, opinions and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! TIA

[This message has been edited by Zanardi 50 (edited 29 August 2002).]

 

[Soichiro]

You don't *need* to wax as long as your current wax job beads water, but if you're using a pure wax with no abrasives in it you can wax as often as you like. Save the abrasive/polish step for once or twice a year, as your paint demands. Pure waxes are sold by Zymol, 3M, Megiuars and others.

 

[caz-nsx]

Just use Zaino. The more you put on the better it will look.

 

[nsxtasy]

Just use Zymol. You only need one coat for the car to look great!

 

[Soichiro]

Just use 3M. You don't even need to apply it!

 

[Soichiro]

BTW although I have NOT tested Zaino I have tested other products that say multiple coats improve the look. My tests show this to be false.

 

[Zanardi 50]

I forgot to mention that using meg. #26 and even gold class actually removes some paint as it stains my buffing cloth red when I polish the wax off, esp. if I apply thick coats and wipe it off before the wax dries. (The clear 'tint' is actually purple, not red, isn't it?). The problem seems less severe or even non-existent if I apply a thinner coat of wax and let it dry completely before wiping it off. Anyone else share the same experience?

 

[nsxtasy]

Zymol NSX wax and Zymol Japon wax do not stain my buffing cloth, nor does Zymol HD-Cleanse conditioner; all of these are non-abrasive. Meguiar's #9 Swirl Remover is slightly abrasive and does stain the cloth, which is why I only use it where absolutely necessary, and not as a routine treatment.

 

[AaronR]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Zymol NSX wax and Zymol Japon wax do not stain my buffing cloth, nor does Zymol HD-Cleanse conditioner

Ditto on that one Ken! I use HD-Cleanse and the Zymol "I paid way too much for it but I had to get it" glaze and neither of them ever stain my cloths or applictors (which of course I use only zymol brand too).

Aaron

 

[Zanardi 50]

Got a bottle of #9, but never had any reason to use it. #26 (Carnauba wax) is what I use, but that stuff isn't suppose to scratch, or is it? So I'm still wondering why did it stained my polishing cloth when I apply it in thick coats? Boy I'm stumped!




[This message has been edited by Zanardi 50 (edited 29 August 2002).]

 

[caz-nsx]

I used Zymol on my old MR2, I had good luck with it and planned on using it on the NSX. Once I got my NSX, about 4 weeks ago, I went to visit a friend of mine that has a Lotus. He has been using Zaino for a while now, 25 applications at the time. His paint looked great, the depth of the gloss was amazing. I did some research on the web. There was actually someone that did a comparision between Zaino, NSX wax (Zymol) and Zymol (Walmart) I think. The Zaino seemed to be the winner overall. Since I have tried it and, in my opinion, it looks great. At least we all agree the NSX is the best.

Here is a link to a pic if you want to check it out. I have 3 coats of Z2 on.
http://home.attbi.com/~jcaswell/nsx/Picture014.jpg

I found the link to the test I looked at: http://www.nsxsc.com/nsexcitement/waxtest.html



[This message has been edited by caz-nsx (edited 29 August 2002).]

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by Zanardi 50:
Got a bottle of #9, but never had any reason to use it.

I use it for anything that the non-abrasive Zymol HD-Cleanse doesn't take out. Occasionally I'll have a tire mark that HD doesn't remove, and I'll use the #9. Also light scratches. And, if there's a bird poop or water spot where it's slightly etched into the finish even after washing, the #9 can smooth it out.

Originally posted by Zanardi 50:
#26 (Carnauba wax) is what I use, but that stuff isn't suppose to scratch, right? So why is it staining my polishing cloth?

I don't know. You might try asking Meguiar's, either by phone 800-347-5700, or by e-mail here. They've got good customer service and I'm sure they'll have an answer for you.

 

[robr]

here we go again............

soichiro, in this instance, multiple coats of zaino is night and day. its not a wax and requires multiple coats of the various chemicals to bond together. the more you put on it, the better it looks. i HAVE used zymol (the NSX specific zymol at that) and i personally think zaino is better looking (when you do many coats) and FAR superior in lasting, though it is a huge time consuming pain in the @$$ to apply properly and in the number of coats i prefer to apply. however 20,000 miles later water is still beading like it's a fresh coat(this is not an exaggeration). you'd be lucky to get 2,000 miles out of the zymol.

 

[nsxtasy]

My Zymol lasts me up to six months and 10,000 miles or more. And it looks great!

Until someone can show me a Material Safety Data Sheet (as required by federal law) that says exactly what ingredients are contained in Zaino, I can only wonder whether they have something to hide, whether Zaino's contents are either bad for the car's finish long-term, or bad for whoever is applying it, or both.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 09 September 2002).]

 

[Zanardi 50]

Thanks for all of your input guys! I'll defintely give Zaino a try. I've already found a way to use M #26 safely and effectively without buffing the paint off the moment I found out the Meguiar stuff buffs the paint off a bit. I tried applying a very light coat of wax instead of a heavy coat like I used to and rather trying to work the wax into the finish repeatedly on one spot, I tried glazing over the surface lightly once or twice instead, let dry, then buff off. No paint stains on the buffing cloth, no pains!

Good thing I stopped doing it the wrong way before any damage was done. And the Z shines just like a brand new NSX should! Oh wait, it IS a brand new NSX with only 11,000 miles on the odo!

[This message has been edited by Zanardi 50 (edited 29 August 2002).]

 

[NSX2F1]

I am trying to stay out of this one, but couldn't resist. I am with Ken on this.

I have no doubt that Zaino will outshine, outlast Carnauba. But until I know what the long term consequences are, I'll stick with Carnauba(Zymol NSX or 3M in my case). I'll just have to do it more often.

 

[kgb_agent]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
My Zymol lasts me up to six months and 10,000 miles or more. And it looks great!

Until someone can show me a Material Safety Data Sheet (as required by federal law) that says exactly what ingredients are contained in Zaino, I can only assume that they have something to hide, that Zaino's contents are either bad for the car's finish long-term, or bad for whoever is applying it. Probably both.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 29 August 2002).]

What did the MSDS say about Zaino??

[This message has been edited by kgb_agent (edited 29 August 2002).]

 

[Zanardi 50]

Maybe I'll just stick to Carnauba wax after all, after hearing what some of you guys think about Zaino's unproven long-term effects. I don't mind waxing as often as I do now, actually it's quite enjoyable, even if it takes 5 HOURS to get it done the way I like it! Si loved my handiwork too! He couldn't stop saying to me how silky smooth my finish is after running his fingers over the hood. Man my chest is swollen with pride!

 

[nsxtasy]

If you get good results with Meguiar's, keep using it. They make good products.

Let us know what they say about their #26 wax. BTW you shouldn't need to press hard when applying or removing anyone's wax.

kgb, there is no MSDS for Zaino, and no one will say what's in it.

 

[Jimbo]

You know, I keep asking Coca-Cola for a MSDS too...I want to know that secret formula!

Seriously, though...MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) are ONLY required for materials that meet OSHA's definition of hazardous.

Zaino is an excellent product and it's been used by thousands of car enthusiast for many, many years.

Ken (nsxtasy) once criticized Zaino for not giving money to charities too, I guess he's running out of things to complain, about, so now he's started this little innuendo game about Zaino. Sad.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html

 

[nsxtasy]

Very funny, Jimbo.

A Material Safety Data Sheet is indeed required for any substance which is a health hazard (meaning that acute or chronic health affects may occur in employees exposed to it) or a physical hazard (meaning a chemical that is a combustible liquid, a compressed gas, explosive, flammable, an organic peroxide, an oxidizer, pyrophoric, unstable (reactive) or water-reactive). There is an exemption for most food products such as Coca-Cola.

Each MSDS contains information about the company that makes the product, ingredients, health hazards, first aid information, handling and storage precautions, fire hazard information, physical and chemical properties, etc.

You can read more about MSDSs in the MSDS FAQ.

The obvious question is this: If someone won't tell you what is contained in a chemical, how can you be sure that it's not hazardous?

That's why all the reputable brands of detailing products file MSDSs with the Federal government. You can look them up in various searchable databases on the Internet, such as the one at the Seton Compliance Resource Center.

You'll find one MSDS for Zymol (it refers to its ingredients as "MIXTURE; (MIXTURE OF WATER, WAXES, EMULSIFIERS, ADDITIVES)"; you can look up the exact contents of any of their products on their website). And, of course, many of us have seen Chuck Bennett occasionally demonstrate the safety of Zymol products by taking a swig himself.

Meguiars, on the other hand, files a separate MSDS for each of its 52 products. For example, you can find the MSDS for their #26 paste wax product (mentioned above) here , and along with information about health hazards and handling precautions, it names the various ingredients (KEROSENE, KEROSINE, ISOPARAFFINIC HYDROCARBONS (NAPHTHA PETROLEUM), HYDROTREATED HEAVY, NON AROMATIC HEAVY NAPHTHA) ISOPAR G *91-4*, BLENDED OILS). There's a separate MSDS for the liquid version of the #26 product.

Mothers also has separate MSDSs for ten of its products.

3M has separate MSDSs for 78 of its automotive products.

And a search on Zaino turns up... nothing.

So riddle me this, Jimbo: Why is it that all the major manufacturers of automotive detailing products except Zaino file MSDSs, but Zaino doesn't? And how can you be sure that Zaino products are safe if you have no idea what's in them?

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 29 August 2002).]

 

[ZNSX17]

I always thought my car looked better when someone did the work no matter what product they used. Seriously, I have not tried Zaino but have been fairly impressed with Zymol - even thought the process takes 3 days and nights(sheesh).

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by ZNSX17:
I always thought my car looked better when someone did the work no matter what product they used. Seriously, I have not tried Zaino but have been fairly impressed with Zymol - even thought the process takes 3 days and nights(sheesh).

Zymol doesn't take 3 days and nights. Nor do the other major brands (Meguiars, 3M, Mothers).

Here's the exterior detailing process for Zymol, Meguiars, 3M, or Mothers (assuming no little extras like touch-up or scratches or stuff like that), using Zymol products as examples:

1. Wash the car with Zymol Clear (or your favorite car wash liquid). Time: 30-45 minutes. Frequency: As needed (typically once every 1-3 weeks for me).

2. Cleanse the car with Zymol HD-Cleanse. Time: 75-120 minutes. Frequency: Once a year and/or any time the finish looks slightly hazy due to oxidation.

3. Wax the car with Zymol wax (NSX, Japon, etc). Time: 60-90 minutes. Frequency: Once every 3-6 months and/or any time water is not beading on the car when it's clean.

There's no need to wait between steps (which is good, because that means there's no time for dust/dirt to accumulate and create scratches during a subsequent buffing step). Total time if I'm doing all three steps is 2-4 hours.

If I'm doing the interior, it takes another hour or so to use Zymol Vinyl on the plastic parts and Zymol Treat on the leather parts. However, I usually do the interior on a different day from the exterior. Actually, to tell the truth, I usually do the interior at the track, because the car is already in the sun (sun is bad for applying the exterior products, but good for the interior products, particularly the Treat) and because I have idle periods during the day.

This process, including the amount of time it takes, is the same if you're using Meguiars or 3M or Mothers products. Each line of products has specific products for each of the three steps. And yes, you can mix and match products; for example, you can wash with Meguiars Gold Class Car Wash (I do, in fact), then use Zymol HD-Cleanse, and 3M paste wax.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 29 August 2002).]

 

[Jimbo]

I too have seen Chuck eat Zymol products. Very impressive. Although I suspect it's more expensive than many varieties of caviar.

Perhaps I should complain that Zymol products do NOT have the required FDA Food Labeling/Nutritional Guide labels on the containers. How Dare THEY!!! After all Chuck claims you can eat their products?!

I happen to be quite familiar with MSDSs and associated documentation. I've worked as a consultant for DuPont for many years.

Since a MSDS is required for any substance that's a health or physical hazard then it's quite likely that Zaino products do not pose a health or physical hazard.

Perhaps those other companies file MSDSs because they have ingredients that require them to do so, or because their companies voluntarily choose to file them.

Or perhaps you seriously wish to claim that Zaino products are unsafe or that Zaino is in violation of the law? Hmmmm??

Actually, your statement....

"...Until someone can show me a Material Safety Data Sheet (as required by federal law) that says exactly what ingredients are contained in Zaino, I can only assume that they have something to hide, that Zaino's contents are either bad for the car's finish long-term, or bad for whoever is applying it. Probably both..."

...comes pretty darn close to libel in my book.

Ken, it's painfully obvious you have a "thing" against Zaino. This MSDS issue is a red herring, plain and simple.

If it's not the MSDS thing, it's whether or not Zaino gives to charities, or if Zaino recommends a one-time Dawn dishwashing application, or the number of steps, or whether or not Zaino supports the NSX community, or any of the other "issues" you have.

Zaino is a great product and the number of happy, loyal and enthusiastic customers continues to grow.

If you don't want to use it, fine. Use whatever product you like. You may, however, wish to retract and/or modify your statements.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html

[This message has been edited by Jimbo (edited 29 August 2002).]

 

[nsx4fun]

I would like to clarify the MSDS issue. MSDS's were never created to protect the public. They are created to protect the employee. OSHA isn't concerned about the final consumer, they are concerned about workers. Zaino as a company is required by law to have MSDS's for all hazardous materials they use in the manufacture of their product. They are not required to provide an MSDS to us, the customer. By not having an MSDS for Zaino products, all that it means is other busniesses by law, can not require their employees to use Zaino. If a shop is using Zaino without an MSDS, then the shop is in violation of the law. Not Zaino. If any of you rich folk pay your chaffeur to polish your car with Zaino, be careful, you may be in violation of OSHA requirements. The rest of us are at liberty to toxify ourselves as we please. That siad, i just started using Zaino, and I am amazed at how nice my car looks. In 6 months we will see if I am pleased with how long the shine lasts.

Fritz