i might be getting an NSX soon, and i want to upgrade the performace. but spending 10K on a supercharger is quite expensive. I can get a custome supercharger put on for less than 5k...can some please explain to me comptech gives you when you buy their supercharger? thanks
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what makes the comptech supercharge $10k?
- Thread starter legendr34
- Start date
The comptech SC is retains your factory acura warranty and it is very reliable. I don't think there is a SC for the NSX that cost less and more reliable. How reliable is your custom SC and would your car be the test vehicle?
YOU GOT TO PAY TO PLAY.
YOU GOT TO PAY TO PLAY.
i'm with khuang: i bought the comptech sc for my 2000T because of the rave reviews, acknowledged reliability of the brand and warranty coverage by acura. i've had it maybe 2 months now (4,500 miles) and from my perspective, it's money very well spent.
best,
hal
best,
hal
The comptech SC is retains your factory acura warranty
Not exactly. Installing ANY aftermarket modification, whether Comptech's or someone else's, does not, in itself, void your factory Acura warranty. But if there is any damage caused by that modification - again, whether it's a Comptech supercharger or any other mod - then the damage is not covered by the Acura warranty. There is no difference between Comptech's mods and anyone else's in this regard.
This is not a simple matter. For more information on warranty issues, see the FAQ:
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Performance/warranty.htm
Not exactly. Installing ANY aftermarket modification, whether Comptech's or someone else's, does not, in itself, void your factory Acura warranty. But if there is any damage caused by that modification - again, whether it's a Comptech supercharger or any other mod - then the damage is not covered by the Acura warranty. There is no difference between Comptech's mods and anyone else's in this regard.
This is not a simple matter. For more information on warranty issues, see the FAQ:
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Performance/warranty.htm
The above statement is not meant to cast any doubts about the reliability of Comptech's supercharger. The fact of the matter is, when a mod is developed, various flaws are uncovered and, hopefully, corrected. If you talk to folks who had one of the first Comptech superchargers, or one of the first Comptech exhausts, or any other mod, you'll find that there were problems that were corrected in later units. So you get increased reliability by buying a unit that has been installed in a hundred cars before yours. That's why Comptech's supercharger is probably substantially more reliable than the one you're looking it.
Way wrong guys. Im not sure what your experience in buiding or tuning cars with aftermarket parts is,but your response that a 10k supercharger is more reliable and better then a kit that cost less is obsurd. No flame. Just fact. This kit is expensive because Comptec makes it so. Thats it. TRD offers supercharger kits which arguably are more reliable then any Comptec unit for their new cars for less then 3500.00 with of course a full factory backed Toyota warranty. Granted a Solara, ES300, or Tacoma is not a NSX by no means but the point is made. The Comtec supercharger is not a magical comtec built unit that they make in their own factory. It is a aftermarket supercharger that can be purchased from many sources for many cars and or trucks. What Comptec offers is a "package" that has been tested and obviously been proven for the NSX. But keep in mind that a very good and even better system can be installed by any professional in aftermarket supercharger/turbocharger fabrications. All of them for 3-5K less then what Comptec offers. Im not blasting Comptec in no way, they can charge what ever they feel like charging and im sure they offer high quality kits, BUT......the original question is not answered correctly. Fact is that YES ,a more reliable and better system can be built for an NSX or any car for much less then 10k. BMW, Porsche owners have more then a few options on aftermarket kits for their cars for around 3-5K.Lexus cars have supercharger kits available for around 5k. Lexus cars have a much more advanced/sophisticated engine management system then ANY Acura or Honda. Period. No argument. Engine mangement changes are the most critical, time consuming, and hardest thing to do on any aftermarket forced induction system. If a Lexus, BMW, and others can have supercharger kits for 3-5k, then certainly a simple NSX could easily have one for the same price. When I say simple, I am implying the simple engine management system of the NSX. VTech and all.
Lee
Lee
"Engine mangement (sic) changes are the most critical, time consuming, and hardest
thing to do on any aftermarket forced induction system."
Indeed. If an another vendor can deliver equivalent parts and software for 5K, you are overpaying if you buy Comptech.
For the record, I think Comptech's price is just below outrageous. No offense intended to anyone... just my opinion.
[This message has been edited by nsxman (edited 30 December 2000).]
thing to do on any aftermarket forced induction system."
Indeed. If an another vendor can deliver equivalent parts and software for 5K, you are overpaying if you buy Comptech.
For the record, I think Comptech's price is just below outrageous. No offense intended to anyone... just my opinion.
[This message has been edited by nsxman (edited 30 December 2000).]
thanks for the info guys...hopefully i become an avid member on this board soon. after thinking about all of this, i think i'm not going force induction. seems that reliability is a large issue. i'll probably just hook up an c/t header and exhaust system...and make my suspension crazy
your response that a 10k supercharger is more reliable and better then a kit that cost less is obsurd.
You're missing the point. It's not more reliable because it costs $10K. It's more reliable because 100+ of them have been produced and installed.
It might be a different story if there were a kit out there that costs much less that has as much installation experience on the NSX. But there isn't.
You're missing the point. It's not more reliable because it costs $10K. It's more reliable because 100+ of them have been produced and installed.
It might be a different story if there were a kit out there that costs much less that has as much installation experience on the NSX. But there isn't.
Sooooooo . . . somebody come up with a supercharger/turbocharger package in the 5K vicinity! Where are you already?
For the record, 10K is absurd for a supercharger - Gruppe M or Comptech. Isn't the CTECH S2000 supercharger around 5K? Maybe since the NASDAQ tanked this year demand for the s'charger will drop and they'll cut the cost? I won't buy one if you don't. Maybe CTECH will drop the price when the Gen II NSX comes out? Ek gawd, when is that thing coming out anyway - 2003? And MAYBE a vendor will learn they can sell four 5K superchargers for every 10K supercharger - that's my "scientific" business estimate anyway.
Please pardon my incoherent musings.
Shawn
For the record, 10K is absurd for a supercharger - Gruppe M or Comptech. Isn't the CTECH S2000 supercharger around 5K? Maybe since the NASDAQ tanked this year demand for the s'charger will drop and they'll cut the cost? I won't buy one if you don't. Maybe CTECH will drop the price when the Gen II NSX comes out? Ek gawd, when is that thing coming out anyway - 2003? And MAYBE a vendor will learn they can sell four 5K superchargers for every 10K supercharger - that's my "scientific" business estimate anyway.
Please pardon my incoherent musings.
Shawn
1) Your price comparisons are flawed. You have been comparing $5K Eaton based kits with a $10K Whipple based kit. That is like comparing a Civic to an NSX. The Whipple blower is better than the Eaton in every catagory except price.
2) Other kits are cheaper because they use a cheaper blower and because they sell many times as many units.
3) Every Acura dealer I have spoken to that installs Comptech parts will fully warranty them as though they were Honda parts.
2) Other kits are cheaper because they use a cheaper blower and because they sell many times as many units.
3) Every Acura dealer I have spoken to that installs Comptech parts will fully warranty them as though they were Honda parts.
Every Acura dealer I have spoken to that installs Comptech parts will fully warranty them as though they were Honda parts.
Comptech parts come with a warranty from Comptech. And yes, one advantage of dealers is that they work with Comptech (when you get the Comptech parts through your dealer) so that the dealer can do any warranty work and get reimbursed by Comptech.
BTW, you don't have to pay $10K for a Comptech supercharger. Talk to Mark Basch. What a lot of folks are doing is getting a few friends together so there are at least three people wanting SC's installed, then flying him out to their location. You'll wind up paying around $8-9K installed (i.e. including labor) for the SC. Mark gets a nice discount because he's the biggest buyer around. He's installed over 30 of them himself, way more than anyone else.
Comptech parts come with a warranty from Comptech. And yes, one advantage of dealers is that they work with Comptech (when you get the Comptech parts through your dealer) so that the dealer can do any warranty work and get reimbursed by Comptech.
BTW, you don't have to pay $10K for a Comptech supercharger. Talk to Mark Basch. What a lot of folks are doing is getting a few friends together so there are at least three people wanting SC's installed, then flying him out to their location. You'll wind up paying around $8-9K installed (i.e. including labor) for the SC. Mark gets a nice discount because he's the biggest buyer around. He's installed over 30 of them himself, way more than anyone else.
Actually, it wasn't a comparison . . . it was a question. I don't ACTUALLY know the exact price of the S2000 supercharger. It wasn't available on their website. I do know it is not 10K though, forgive me Nxstasy, 8-9K w/ MB's help.
I think I saw the S2000 supercharger press release in SCC but I don't remember the suggested cost.
Nsxtasy, thanks for the info on the group purchase w/ MB. If and when I can justify spending the 8-9K (which seems easier to do every day I drive this darn car) I may just cross over to the dark side. Until then I'm complaining every step of the way.
Shawn
PS. But you know I'm gonna try and get like 15 buyers together at once! You know how I love to save a few grand up front.
Nsxtasy, thanks for the info on the group purchase w/ MB. If and when I can justify spending the 8-9K (which seems easier to do every day I drive this darn car) I may just cross over to the dark side. Until then I'm complaining every step of the way.
Shawn
PS. But you know I'm gonna try and get like 15 buyers together at once! You know how I love to save a few grand up front.
david, could you extrapolate on what makes the whipple better than the eaton?my friend has the comptech and i have the eaton(supplied with the gruppe m)and we dynoed same day, same machine, similar mods... hp almost the same ~2hp but torque the eaton produced 10ft-lbs more.
thanks again for letting me pick your brain.
thanks again for letting me pick your brain.
Without going into a bunch of engineering detail, I believe the Whipple is the best Roots-type blower for two main reasons.
1) It is thermally and volumetrically the most efficient, with numbers approaching those of a compression type blower (Vortec for example).
2) The build quality is superb. Whipple has them built in Swizterland in one of the most advanced machine/assembly facilities in the world, with absolute state-of-the art numerically controlled machines.
If you look at the various aftermarket blower kits, you will notice that the high quality companies with the best reputations (Kenne Bell in the muscle car and truck market, for example) consistanly base their products on the Whipple blower.
The Eaton blower cores are considerably cheaper and are also available in several sizes, so you will see a lot of them on small displacement (Civic/Prelude, etc.) kits. Auto manufacturers use Eaton cores because they are cost-effective (inexpensive) and they do not usually push the envelope on production cars at all in terms of performance, so the stress is low. Auto companies are, after all, run by accountants.
1) It is thermally and volumetrically the most efficient, with numbers approaching those of a compression type blower (Vortec for example).
2) The build quality is superb. Whipple has them built in Swizterland in one of the most advanced machine/assembly facilities in the world, with absolute state-of-the art numerically controlled machines.
If you look at the various aftermarket blower kits, you will notice that the high quality companies with the best reputations (Kenne Bell in the muscle car and truck market, for example) consistanly base their products on the Whipple blower.
The Eaton blower cores are considerably cheaper and are also available in several sizes, so you will see a lot of them on small displacement (Civic/Prelude, etc.) kits. Auto manufacturers use Eaton cores because they are cost-effective (inexpensive) and they do not usually push the envelope on production cars at all in terms of performance, so the stress is low. Auto companies are, after all, run by accountants.
For comparing the supercharger unit itself (Eaton/Whipple), what you just described isn't really an apples-to-apples comparison. Similar mods or not, the 2 systems are set up differently as far as fuel goes, and I believe as far as boost as well.
GruppeM does a lot more with their fuel system, the Comptech setup is about as minimalistic as you can get (I believe Comptech simply bumps up fuel pressure via both a custom regulator + extra electricity to the fuel pump (up to 20 volts). Fuel system setup can easily make a 20-30hp difference, let alone the 2hp/10lb-ft of torque mentioned.
Also, the GruppeM system is sorta like a 9psi Comptech kit with a pressure-release valve. Meaning, they have it geared to produce higher boost than 7psi, thus allowing you to have bigger boost numbers earlier (more power/torque down low). By using a pressure-release valve they let the pressure beyond 7psi blow off to keep you at 7psi, else you'd have even more boost.
That's my understanding of the 2 supercharger systems. Me, I'm going to give the twin turbo setup a shot (to be installed in about a month). I can only hope my dyno chart looks something like Runutzz's car - 351hp & 280 lb-ft of torque to the wheels, and a torque curve of over 260 lb-ft to the wheels from 4000rpm through 7000rpm.. From a stock 95 with nothing but the twin turbo kit..
Best,
Marc
[This message has been edited by SpeedDemon (edited 01 January 2001).]
Number9
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One additional thing to consider is supercharger kit packaging in the engine bay. The comptech kit fits under the stock engine cover (at least in a late model coupe) and if well installed, looks just as clean as before the s/c install. The GruppeM doesn't fit under the stock engine cover and has a lot of exposed plumbing, so might be problematic for T owners.
--twc
BTW, what does GruppeM do for fuel management? The dyno chart for the GruppeM on Dali Racing's website (a GruppeM vendor) has a horrible looking plot, but I presume that's an early install before the bugs were shaken out...
--twc
BTW, what does GruppeM do for fuel management? The dyno chart for the GruppeM on Dali Racing's website (a GruppeM vendor) has a horrible looking plot, but I presume that's an early install before the bugs were shaken out...
an interesting, albeit OLD thread...
How have CTSC and GMSC improved? How do they offer better/comparable value to the coming BBSC ??
Vendor / distributor opinions are welcome.
How have CTSC and GMSC improved? How do they offer better/comparable value to the coming BBSC ??
Vendor / distributor opinions are welcome.
Manuel, why not start a new thread instead, to ask those questions in the title? That way it will be easier for folks to know what it's about (without having that part buried after a whole bunch of old posts), and easier to search on, too. Just a thought...
All I know is that Marc's car with that twin turbo system HAULS ASS!!
That's cuzz he bought it from me. : )
$$$$'s and performance??
Go BASCH BOOST, I was just at NSteXpo. Check
out the results on one of the NSteXpo threads.
We had Comptech , Gruppe M & Basch Boost present to dyno.
Look at the results and see for your self.
The Basch is almost 1/2 the price of the
competition. BTW: He was only using the
4 lb pulley, imagine the 6 lb?
See ya,
Terry
Go BASCH BOOST, I was just at NSteXpo. Check
out the results on one of the NSteXpo threads.
We had Comptech , Gruppe M & Basch Boost present to dyno.
Look at the results and see for your self.
The Basch is almost 1/2 the price of the
competition. BTW: He was only using the
4 lb pulley, imagine the 6 lb?
See ya,
Terry
After NSteXpo -- I'm saving up for a 6lb Basch Boost on my 3.2 L. That will ROCK!
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what makes the CT unit 10K?
Over inflation of price by near triple the cost. The whipple unit is under 2K retail, closer to 1.5K if you look hard enough. Add in the rest of the parts, no way you're breaking 5K.You're paying for the R&D that went into it.
I think it's the most well thought out and engineered of all the units. I love everything about it. Most of Comptech's stuff is that way. It's just priced far out of the range of many of us, but it doesn't have to be.
Over inflation of price by near triple the cost. The whipple unit is under 2K retail, closer to 1.5K if you look hard enough. Add in the rest of the parts, no way you're breaking 5K.You're paying for the R&D that went into it.
I think it's the most well thought out and engineered of all the units. I love everything about it. Most of Comptech's stuff is that way. It's just priced far out of the range of many of us, but it doesn't have to be.
Yes a whipple or (twin-screw) is better than a eaton (roots). This is because the twin-screw design is more efficient than the roots. But I think CT defeated the benefits by putting to small of a blower on the NSX. Obviously they did this so everything would fit under the engine compartment. But I think you will find that the Gruppe M at the same PSI level as the CT will put out more power. This is also the same reason that the BB puts out more power than either of it competition.
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