What would have made the new NSX sell better?

[N Spec]

Let's not act like Honda doesn't have a K20 CTR motor variant in a much more affordable SH-AWD car in the planning stages that should see the light of day soon. That's the one that's going to sell a bit better but still not as great as the S2000 did I reckon.

You guys expect flagships/halo cars to sell in high numbers. They don't.

However, find a way to shave 200 lbs off of the current NSX but keep the hybrid stuff and it would be extremely competitive even with minor power increases.

 

[2015 NSX]

If the economy keeps moving and the dealers start discounting, watch Acura sell all the 2018 NSX's they can build!

 

[docjohn]

http://trc.taboola.com/msn-msn/log/...zLnRhYm9vbGFzeW5kaWNhdGlvbi5jb20yCHdhdGVyMTAx

 

[Gadgetman]

Yes there are a few things I'd like improved or changed. Several of which have been mentioned.
#1 of price could be lesser with an interior improved.

others
Better PO colors of course.
Display tweaks yes and some better driver fitment flexibility in seat( tilt and fwd back (plus some lumbar aren't worth the cost of admission. They should have at least up/down so us short folks could get fwd visibility like the Gen 1.
And I can go on.

But now having gotten mine out again (finally) a few times I'm loving it more and more. Having 4 COMPLETELY different personalities/rides in one (with a twist of the wrist) is very much appreciated by me. I'm viewing it as a doing a lot and well all in one package... than do this single thing to the extreme car. (I'm not an extremist)
I'm loving it more for what it is vs isn't or other want it to be. And I'm linking the overall look more and more.

So, to answer the original post question vs go on and on with assorted tangents as seen above...
for now, quick answers are better marketing/pricing, options (including paint), and a more upgraded look to the interior. and maybe a bit more ICE&Hybrid support.
In future years, assuming they happen, hopefully the kinks many feel needed/complained about will get ironed out. Regardless, I think it's an awesome car I still would have bought as I did. Plus I like not seeing another around me on the road or at gathering/stops. John Q public certainly seems to have taken notice and frequently comment... and that feels good too. Wonder what it will be looked at as in 20 yrs?

 

[Bricks and Bio]

Blue,

Thanks for the nice analysis/graphic

My counterpoint goes like this.

The original NSX didn't focus on the Vette, it was a the higher price point Ferrari 328 or 911 crowd. Lambo was like shmall volume back then so not really a target. The NSX serves as an example of engineering skill, and they were not then/are not now building a volume brand (it would be nice if they provided a $75K something in the Honda store) and it would appear that they don't care to.

We have a crazy halo car for Acura that is way faster than most stuff on the road. I whip past a Subie today and he was so pissed. For many of the buyers Acura is targeting (like old chubby me), a car with much more juice is just gonna get crashed at a level that Honda corporate would deem irresponsible. GM and responsible seem mutually exclusive to me (not get me started on VW).

Back to the Hybrid thing. The Hybrid thing is fun to discuss in the context of Porsche. They did the over the top 918 and had a mild Panamera hybrid hidden in the line up (and I believe one in the Cayenne). Now look at the new Panamera, a bunch of Hybrids versions and the ability to go over 680 HP (yowza).

All of us owners of the Gen 2 car have been having a blast with it. I understand it chafes a lot of enthusiasts that didn't get what they want. But they have great options and I am sure the Porsche store owners aren't losing any sleep over the return of the NSX.

 

[myw]

- a front end that doesn't have the old beak (doesnt make sense that the halo car of the company has the brand-face from last decade, which the company is doing everything to phase out)
- better designed interior - all those angles on the dash, ugh.

 

[Bricks and Bio]

I am an ex Lexus guy.

Remember the LFA took a long time to come to market and had a front end that did not align with the spindle grill stuff they are pitching now.

Same deal here.

A beak looks just fine when well executed. I dare you to tell an eagle or a hawk their beak doesn't look good (and menacing).

It was just that Acura went beak on steroids after the 04 TL (which was fine) and we came to hate their design language.

I think the interior of my NSX is great. Look at Lambo and Ferrari. They have stuff going every which way.

 

[Jinks]

As I mentioned in another thread I like the interior more than I thought I did and the exterior less than I thought I did. I like the rear and the sides of the exterior. The front I couldn't seem to get over in person and I even love Mclaren front ends. But the interior was nice and comfy for a larger frame person. Some of the seats in sports cars give me a hernia just looking at them.

 

[myw]

those are some eye-opening insights and figures. imo in terms of brand power + product price point re most of acura's products it actually decent sense.

Option 2 - go after a different market segment
Back in 1991 Acura made a car designed to eat in to the Porsche 911 space. It was a commercial failure. You would think they would have learned their lesson. Rather than a Japanese Ferrari, perhaps they should have gone for a Japanese Corvette. Then the luxury aspect wouldn't have mattered. The price point would of course have had to be lower, more in line with the Corvette and that introduces its own problems, but the standards and expectations could have been lower too.

The graph below is a snapshot of cumulative monthly sales for sports cars and demonstrates just how strong the corvette maket is. Even taking 10% of that market would make the NSX2 a much bigger commercial success.

View attachment 144825

 

[myw]

I am an ex Lexus guy.

Remember the LFA took a long time to come to market and had a front end that did not align with the spindle grill stuff they are pitching now.

but the LFA was already discontinued for a year or two before the lexus spindle grill came out. I just coudlnt help but notice that before the new nsx's were hitting the road the precision concept and it's new brand face/pentagon grill was already announced. and now the mdx, tlx etc etc will all have their faces changed (I'm guessing rdx is next). i bet the nsx will be the last (or one of the last) acura's to get the updated brand-face. as a car that is to lead the company to the next level, i expected the halo car to have the new brand/face/design-language.

It was just that Acura went beak on steroids after the 04 TL (which was fine) and we came to hate their design language.

agreed completely.

I think the interior of my NSX is great. Look at Lambo and Ferrari. They have stuff going every which way.

i just felt the nsx dash 'flaps + angles' (between the black + silver) clash. While the hurrican is in a different price point, whenever i sit in my friends i cant help but appreciate that the top portion of the dash is for the most part, clean + simple.

I like the rear and the sides of the exterior. The front I couldn't seem to get over in person

agreed here as well.

 

[Bricks and Bio]

Here is an article back in 2012 talking about the spindle grill

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2012/05/03/the-story-behind-the-lexus-spindle-grille/

It evolved into the over emphasized things we see today.

 

[Tom239]

I think the interior of my NSX is great. Look at Lambo and Ferrari. They have stuff going every which way.

Ferrari has some of the most hideous AC vents in the business.

 

[RYU]

I think we are more in sync than you may think. What I meant is that a $150-200k NSX is not inherently a problem. The car *could* sell at that price, it just needs to be competitive with the gorilla in that price point - the 911. It isn't, so it isn't being purchased. My comment was more directed at the comments here and around the internet that say "no freakn Honda is ever worth $200k"

Agree. Finally sat down and read thru your entire post. Quite insightful.

 

[RYU]

If there can be any hope.. who remembers the debacle that was the 2012 Civic? Who has been in the current Civic? I'll argue... Honda listened to us and turned things around big time. Let's see if they'll do the same with the NSX.

 

[N Spec]

The interior design of the new NSX wasn't the issue. Biggest complaints were the plastic handles and paddles. They wanted more premium materials.

The beak situation is a small detail. One might see the pentagon front end on the upcoming NSXes in few years. It's a simple fix for Honda in retooling the front bumper. We'll see if it flows better.

 

[blue_myriddn]

The interior design of the new NSX wasn't the issue. Biggest complaints were the plastic handles and paddles. They wanted more premium materials.

Exactly! Acura missed out on the silly little things that are seemingly so easy and yet make such a difference. I hate to mention the rubber pedals because I feel like a broken record, but that is a good example of it. They did this nonsense in the original NSX too - the junky vinyl they used on the shift boot for example. Corvette always did that sort of thing in their cars and got hit for it as well, but no one cared because the car was still great value. Likewise once the NSX depreciated no one cared either because you were getting good value. I always love it when people say to me "I totally prefer your car to the new NSX" to which I respond - "oh really? you want to buy my car for $200k?"

For the record, I don't want to give the wrong impression here - I really like the new car and am anticipating that when I take it around the track in July it will be a great driving car. I also don't personally mind all of these short comings; that sort of stuff isn't a deal breaker for me. In a discussion about the general consumer market though, these are BIG issues and will explain why the NSX2 will likely be a market failure just like the NSX was. That will bother their corporate and it will result in a vehicle that will likely be neglected in the future and not get continuous updates which is sad. Then again, will make it all that much more rare later in life.

 

[Tom239]

For the record, I don't want to give the wrong impression here - I really like the new car and am anticipating that when I take it around the track in July it will be a great driving car. I also don't personally mind all of these short comings; that sort of stuff isn't a deal breaker for me. In a discussion about the general consumer market though, these are BIG issues and will explain why the NSX2 will likely be a market failure just like the NSX was. That will bother their corporate and it will result in a vehicle that will likely be neglected in the future and not get continuous updates which is sad. Then again, will make it all that much more rare later in life.

The gen1 NSX hit the mark as a halo car. It got great reviews, it had several features that were industry firsts, it looked great in the showroom, and consumers were paying considerably over MSRP on introduction. It's hard to put a dollar value on the renown it brought to the brand. Sure they would have liked to have sold more, which probably would have led to a new model a lot sooner--but I'm guessing that all in all, Honda is in retrospect happy that they built the first NSX.

So far the gen2 NSX hasn't even done the halo thing all that well. It may well be a better car than the reviews and the general public give it credit for, but the halo effect is all about perception.

 

[Elistan]

IIRC, when gen1 NSX came out it was faster than the currently available Ferrari, and also was cheaper, more ergonomic, and more reliable. Wins all around.

When gen2 NSX was being developed, Honda stated their goal was Ferrari 458 performance for Audi R8 cost. Unfortunately for Honda, prior to releasing the gen2 NSX, Ferrari updated the 458 to the faster 488, and Audi updated the R8 to be as fast as the 458 without a cost increase. So Honda hit their goals, but since the competition moved on it wasn't as impressive as it would have been otherwise. If Honda had targeted better than 458 performance for R8 cost, perhaps by getting an extra 150 hp from the gasoline engine, and/or boosting the electric power somehow, then it would have been more notable. Or, Honda could have shot for 458 performance at 911 prices - even with Ferrari and R8 upping their game, the NSX still would have been impressive.

I've no clue if any of the above would have been possible for Honda to do without losing a lot of money on each sale.

(Personally, I'm waiting for Honda to combine the CTR 2.0 engine with the NSX's hybrid AWD tech and offer an S2000 replacement for $50k or something like that.)

 

[RYU]

The interior design of the new NSX wasn't the issue. Biggest complaints were the plastic handles and paddles. They wanted more premium materials.

On everyone single one i've seen that has had any seat time at all... have you noticed how the leather around the seat bolsters stretch and wrinkle? I'm not sure why.. but that would drive me crazy on a $150k car. Then there's everything else you mentioned and then some.

 

[RYU]

Has Honda ever done a hybrid well?

 

[Yinzer]

The interior design of the new NSX wasn't the issue. Biggest complaints were the plastic handles and paddles. They wanted more premium materials.

The beak situation is a small detail. One might see the pentagon front end on the upcoming NSXes in few years. It's a simple fix for Honda in retooling the front bumper. We'll see if it flows better.

Whew, I couldn't respectfully disagree more. As far as premium materials: they often translate into heaviness & cost, and weight & price have understandably been key gripes. Plus is this a performance car, a luxury car, or all the above? Where the most expensive 911's can have cloth tabs as door pulls, I think any NSX should have performance as its focus...kudos to Ferrari for loading up their steering wheels with race/driver-focused tech vs. the NSX2's cluttered overload of radio/entertainment features for a middle radio that's inches away.... Sometimes I think Acura in general tries way too hard to hit homeruns in each & every metric available, instead of prioritizing certain things. I got that sense at NSXPO 2014 at the Honda tech center presentation, where the TLX was predicted to be at the top of each and every graph presented.... Trying to please everyone is a really hard task.

And the beak & to me is a huge detracting detail that's too often underestimated. Not one review I've read complimented it, and all either criticized it or danced around the issue. Not only is it not so easy to fix by all buyers, but it's not good to have an anchor like that for a new model out the gate seeking strong sales. I fully admit that there is no perfect answer to appease me and my frequent "gripes"...today's supercars are enigmas to me and I'm always astounded by any maker able to hit an obvious home run both to buyers with available funds and general fans who may never be able to buy such a car.

 

[powdbyrice]

Has Honda ever done a hybrid well?

they made a 5MT Civic hybrid. that's worth something. :tongue:

 

[powdbyrice]

Whew, I couldn't respectfully disagree more. As far as premium materials: they often translate into heaviness & cost, and weight & price have understandably been key gripes. Plus is this a performance car, a luxury car, or all the above? Where the most expensive 911's can have cloth tabs as door pulls, I think any NSX should have performance as its focus...kudos to Ferrari for loading up their steering wheels with race/driver-focused tech vs. the NSX2's cluttered overload of radio/entertainment features for a middle radio that's inches away.... Sometimes I think Acura in general tries way too hard to hit homeruns in each & every metric available, instead of prioritizing certain things. I got that sense at NSXPO 2014 at the Honda tech center presentation, where the TLX was predicted to be at the top of each and every graph presented.... Trying to please everyone is a really hard task.

when you pay close to $400k for a car, among other things, it better have a fancy steering wheel. did i expect something slightly different than what is in the MDX? absolutely. the steering wheel feels great in the hand though.

acura/honda never tries to hit homeruns in every catagory, they try to make a well rounded vehicle. highest top speed? never. lowest quarter? never. top 0-60? never. highest g's? never. yet somehow it all comes together to make fantastic driving cars.

 

[docjohn]

IIRC, when gen1 NSX came out it was faster than the currently available Ferrari, and also was cheaper, more ergonomic, and more reliable. Wins all around.

When gen2 NSX was being developed, Honda stated their goal was Ferrari 458 performance for Audi R8 cost. Unfortunately for Honda, prior to releasing the gen2 NSX, Ferrari updated the 458 to the faster 488, and Audi updated the R8 to be as fast as the 458 without a cost increase. So Honda hit their goals, but since the competition moved on it wasn't as impressive as it would have been otherwise. If Honda had targeted better than 458 performance for R8 cost, perhaps by getting an extra 150 hp from the gasoline engine, and/or boosting the electric power somehow, then it would have been more notable. Or, Honda could have shot for 458 performance at 911 prices - even with Ferrari and R8 upping their game, the NSX still would have been impressive.

what was funny is we all thought this when Ted told us about their benchmarks for the nsx at a previous expo....

 

[RYU]

If I could drive the car blind folded it's actually a pretty awesome driving car. Hide the beak. Hide the interior. Hide the Window Sticker...

A blind taste test if you will