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What would have made the new NSX sell better?

-Non-hybrid drivetrain. I don't believe that adding hybrid makes it "special" just that it shows that the corporate executives like to cater to the greenies (who don't buy these cars anyhow so it makes little sense). Also look at the new Ford GT and McLaren 720, they do just fine without hybridization. I initially didn't believe this would be a factor causing folks to shy away but I'm beginning to believe that it is.


Others have mentioned this and now I am coming to terms with the concept. I believe that Acura will ultimately have to push heavy incentives on the residual new cars ultimately driving down the value of the cars and hurting the values for all the early adopters. Honda/Acura has demonstrated a fair amount of arrogance and seldom change unless a major publication harshly criticizes them (ie. 2012 Civic debacle). Consequently, I doubt they will de-hybridize the NSX rather they will utilize economic tools to help sell the vehicles.
 
The hybrid piece is intended to help promote this feature across the product line

Having hybrid tech at the very low end of the super car world is innovation

I get that many folks here don't want/like it but for those of us with the car, it is a really nice part of the whole

Why compare to a 720 (likely to see most MSRP of spec'd cars at $320K or more) or a GT (not a perfect car to take your wife for a day trip and have a nice conversation, starts at $450K, then add $25K for the nicer interior, $10K for your favorite racing stripe and $35-$50K for some paint options and you have blown past $500k for that awesome machine)? Those are just in different leagues.
 
Since the best that Chevy, Dodge, BMW/Mini and Ford could do for their $20-140k sportscar lines over the last 15-20 years was create 5/4th-sized 4000-lb retro versions of their 60's cars (which appear to sell pretty well or created quite the bang especially the Ford GT), why not a 4/4th sized retro NSX-GT (or whatever name was decided to be deserving) retro release of the original, where they "fix" the major complaints over the gen-1 while offering modern updates befitting the NSX? Use a $100k target to rope in content such as "only" 450hp to help retain the original's reliability (and keep weight below 2,999 lb), use a manual transmission, use a "forever timing belt," use non-boat anchor exhausts & manifolds, integrated GoPro capture, and use updated radio/HVAC/window/bolster hardware that doesn't fail. :) Obviously this assumes that a sleek/low front end could be made to meet today's pedestrian impact standards without having to resort to fascia design silliness to attempt to mask its girth.

There's so much refined competition now vs. 1990 that I've lost confidence that any maker can create something new, attractive, unique, desirable, and timeless without resorting to controversial exterior design bullsh*t randomness hailmarys to stand out....and/or without overloading the tech content (and then weight & complexity) that only makes sense for auto journalists itching for interesting subject matter and/or consumers buying cars to win races to put food on the table and pay the mortgage.

Sure, going retro kicks the can down the road as far as creating a great new "what's next," but cars are so refined that perhaps we're all kidding ourselves to think that new cars are still able to be usefully different anymore, like today's paper towels, toilet paper, & Kleenex, which (like most supercars nowadays) look alike brand-to-brand if not also from each other from 50 feet. I know that's pretty bah-humbuggish about the future of cars but that's how I feel.

Oh, and they should have done sub-$90 floor mats that also fit gen-1's. :tongue:
 
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Tweak the styling and up the power to Huracan level.
Keep the MSRP where it is.
Lotus was going to market their (never to be) new Esprit designed by Donato Coco with their technology packed new 612+hp V8 at a similar price as the new NSX.
It was just not to be. I think it would have been very competitive.

The Esprit prototype:
 

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Tweak the styling and up the power to Huracan level.
Keep the MSRP where it is.
Lotus was going to market their (never to be) new Esprit designed by Donato Coco with their technology packed new 612+hp V8 at a similar price as the new NSX.
It was just not to be. I think it would have been very competitive.

The Esprit prototype:

the Esprit would have been my choice had they made it, hands down. a 600 horsepower V8, light weight, looking like that? oh yes!

p.s. wow, there are a lot of gripes about the NSX on this thread. :eek:

p.s.s. simply put, the NSX needed to be less nice and much meaner in every sense...
 
i think

1: price in canada it starts 189k
2:acura long wait list is not helping
 
NSX 2.0 has been in talks/development for years, waaaay overdue. Like what Doug Demuro stated, you'll never be able to meet expectations when the whole world has been waiting a decade.

I for one think the new NSX is great. As soon as I can afford one, I'm definitely going to buy it.
 
Interest commentary. I guess was was focused on things Acura could have conceivably done differently in the last couple of years. Not "build a totally different car".
 
They can very easily update this car. What floors me is that they aren't doing it right now at the track, making adjustments and fine tuning things. Boosting power and aggressively tuning the transmission. It's kind of like, here you go we did it....
Just like the gen 1. This is the only concept the new car shares with the older gen car. There should be significant upgrades in 2018. The car with 150 more ice power and more aggressive e motors would make it a freaking beast.
 
1) Manual tranny option (this would put it right up in elite class next to the Porsche)

2) More color options

3) Priced at the R8 price point

4) V10 motor :) j/k ok maybe not entirely....


P.S. took a trip with wifey in the new NSX (300 mile road trip) and it was the most comfortable car! Almost forgot we were driving an exotic. Then just last weekend took the Huracan to Napa for our anniversary - it's only a 1 hr drive each way and BOTH our backs were hurting by the end of each trip. Both of us were extremely eager to get out of the car and back into the M3 that afternoon LOL

One thing to point out is the new NSX is amazing for a DD - reminds us of our R8's that we took to Costco. You just don't do that in the Huracan....
 
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-Non-hybrid drivetrain. I don't believe that adding hybrid makes it "special" just that it shows that the corporate executives like to cater to the greenies (who don't buy these cars anyhow so it makes little sense). Also look at the new Ford GT and McLaren 720, they do just fine without hybridization. I initially didn't believe this would be a factor causing folks to shy away but I'm beginning to believe that it is.

Ferrari has announced that starting in 2019 all new Ferraris will be hybrids. Likewise Porsche has indicated that the 911 will soon go hybrid too. Had Honda not included the hybrid then in a couple of years everyone would be complaining that the NSX has outdated tech. Since Honda wants to be known as being technologically innovative this would be wrong message for their halo car to be sending to customers.

I've seen several reviewers say that the new NSX feels more futuristic than the R8 which feels like the past. Thus even if the current hybrid setup does not provide performance that exceeds the competition, Honda has succeeded at the futuristic piece. For a next step I would like to see them offer a Type-R variant which will prove that the hybrid setup can provide a measurable performance advantage relative to a similarly priced R8 V10 Plus or 570S.
 
1) Manual tranny option (this would put it right up in elite class next to the Porsche)

2) More color options

3) Priced at the R8 price point

4) V10 motor :) j/k ok maybe not entirely....


P.S. took a trip with wifey in the new NSX (300 mile road trip) and it was the most comfortable car! Almost forgot we were driving an exotic. Then just last weekend took the Huracan to Napa for our anniversary - it's only a 1 hr drive each way and BOTH our backs were hurting by the end of each trip. Both of us were extremely eager to get out of the car and back into the M3 that afternoon LOL

One thing to point out is the new NSX is amazing for a DD - reminds us of our R8's that we took to Costco. You just don't do that in the Huracan....


Manual tranny AND A V10 WOULD BE COOL FOR TYPE R MODEL
 
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Some of the comments in this thread are pretty amusing and boil down to - "I want more and I want to pay less". Well, duh that isn't terribly insightful. If you want a cheaper NSX2, just wait a while and get a used one. These will be $150-160k cars very soon.

I personally don't buy in to the price problem. If you are dropping that kind of $$$ in to a car, you are buying what you want and not making a purely fiscal choice. That means that people don't want the NSX2. What they want is a Porsche. Acura has MANY problems including the lineup of their other vehicles that preclude it from being a luxury brand. It isn't a luxury brand, it is a budget luxury brand. Go out and drive an Acura SUV back to back with a Mercedes/Audi SUV and that will be 110% apparent. The Acura will do everything that the other 2 do and probably even better & more reliably, but it won't do it with the same sense of styling. Plastic is that much cheaper, dashboards are that much more bland, etc, etc. Sadly that philosophy carried in to the NSX2 as well.

If they wanted to take market space away from the 911, they needed to at least match the 911 so then people could use intrinsic items to decide one way or another. They didn't though. Both cars are plenty fast - faster than 99% of all their consumers could ever possibly utilize. Both cars have snappy transmissions and will probably shake out to similar maintenance. The Porsche is the clear winner though unless you happen to be connected to Acura for some reason (ie. people like me, or others on this board). The Porsche has a quality badge, a long heritage and an interior & buying experience that is clearly luxury. The NSX2 has a hybrid drive drain.

So that leads me to answer the original post's question - what could be done to sell the car:

Option 1 - enhance the hybrid experience.
At NSXPO in Raleigh Ted Klaus gave his presentation on the upcoming NSX and he tip-toed around the hybrid drive drain anticipating to be boo'd off the stage. There were a few naysayers (as there are in this thread), but by in large by that time the Porsche 918, P1 and LaFerrari had been on the scene and it was ok to have batteries in your sportscar so long as they enhanced the experience. I told him exactly that after the talk and encouraged him not to be so gun shy about it. In hindsight, it was a clear message on how they were approaching the development of the car - "don't make a big deal out of the hybrid aspect". The problem is that the hybrid aspect is the only thing that sets the car apart from the pack, so they were effectively shooting themselves in the foot. Fast forward and we have the BMW i8 which is the poster boy hybrid sports car and Tesla. Its pretty cool too and both are selling fairly well. If you get in to it, you *feel* like you are in a future electric car sort of thing and that is neat. The NSX could have gone that route with a "if you want a true performance hybrid, go big and get the NSX - its priced higher than the i8 but it is a lot faster and stronger." Right now though, other than being able to pretend its a prius and quietly move through a parking lot for a little while, the hybrid aspects don't really shine in this car. Their big apparent function is to take all the big clunky weight from adding the hybrid system and making it seem like all that big clunky weight isn't there. That's impressive from an engineering standpoint, but from an accounting standpoint +5 -5 = 0 and that is all the benefit they are getting from their hybrid system.

Option 2 - go after a different market segment
Back in 1991 Acura made a car designed to eat in to the Porsche 911 space. It was a commercial failure. You would think they would have learned their lesson. Rather than a Japanese Ferrari, perhaps they should have gone for a Japanese Corvette. Then the luxury aspect wouldn't have mattered. The price point would of course have had to be lower, more in line with the Corvette and that introduces its own problems, but the standards and expectations could have been lower too.

The graph below is a snapshot of cumulative monthly sales for sports cars and demonstrates just how strong the corvette maket is. Even taking 10% of that market would make the NSX2 a much bigger commercial success.

Corvette-Sales.jpg
 
Some of the comments in this thread are pretty amusing and boil down to - "I want more and I want to pay less". Well, duh that isn't terribly insightful. If you want a cheaper NSX2, just wait a while and get a used one. These will be $150-160k cars very soon.

I personally don't buy in to the price problem. If you are dropping that kind of $$$ in to a car, you are buying what you want and not making a purely fiscal choice. That means that people don't want the NSX2. What they want is a Porsche...........................

I got about this far into your post and I disagree. It's not an affordability issue. I for one, am not a shopping for an Accord when all I could really afford is a Civic. It's a question of value for the NSX. With the lousy interior and with it's current performance it's simply not worth $150-200k IMHO given other choices in the market. I'd either pay less for a GT-R, Porsche, Merc GT/GTS or pay more for a 570S, 911 GT3, etc.

The Hybrid performance would have been it's competitive advantage but the execution of that was mediocre... again IMO. I am of the belief that Honda set high performance goals for the hybrid drivetrain early on which allowed them to set price targets. I believe they missed those performance goals due to the failure of one or more components during R&D. It might be why you had all those early chassis fire early on in testing and it's probably why the battery is usually no more than 50% utilized in the current models. There's got to be something in the car's hybrid system that's holding it back and it doesn't appear to be the battery.
 
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I think we are more in sync than you may think. What I meant is that a $150-200k NSX is not inherently a problem. The car *could* sell at that price, it just needs to be competitive with the gorilla in that price point - the 911. It isn't, so it isn't being purchased. My comment was more directed at the comments here and around the internet that say "no freakn Honda is ever worth $200k"
 
[MENTION=26078]blue_myriddn[/MENTION], well said. I think Option 1 is the right approach. You can't out-Corvette the Corvette or out-911 the 911.
 
That chart by [MENTION=26078]blue_myriddn[/MENTION] is pretty eye opening - did you create that or where did you find that? Pretty shocking seeing it on a bar graph!

We have more Corvette owners / clients / friends than any other car out there. It's historic and an icon for American history. Few sports cars will ever topple this giant no matter what we personally think of the car. We've been to the Corvette museum a few times now and the modern era Corvette is everything a super car should be besides a few nit picking details.

If Acura wanted to get market share in this tightly competitive market, they should have targeted the Corvette owners. As said earlier if you can steal 10-20% of that market, WOW that is a killer move. Acura has more in common with Chevy than they do with Porsche, McLaren, Lamborghini, etc.


P.S. The i8 should NOT even be on that list - that is a silly car in a list of true high performance sports cars
 
hmmm drive the corvette backwards and let us know if it handles like the nsx:smiley_simmons:
 
Some numbers aren't there.

Honda is not Ferrari, Lamborghini or Porsche but they did amazing things in the past as well as in racing competition as in the general automotive market.

Making efficient, reliable and fun to drive products made their name. Everybody recognizes the prowess of VTEC technology, the ability for Honda to push NA engines performance and efficiency to the highest levels. Remember how the NSX, S2000 and Integra Type R engines passionate lots of car enthusiasts ...


Comparing the new NSX IC engine power output to the F20C makes us realize that Honda could do better and it truly disappoints ...

120 hp/L NA for the old S2000 and around 140hp/L for their new halo car with a turbo engine !! ?? !!

Mc Laren gets 180 hp/L with its 720S 4 L turbo engine ...


Honda could great us with a 200 hp/L turbo engine redlining at 9k rpm ...


When comparing the front electric engines of the new NSX, we also think that Honda could do better, especially when we see how much power Tesla can get from their electric engines, or comparing with the new NIO EP9 Chinese full electric supercar having the modest output of 1000 kW...


Yes, we must agree that Honda came with an original concept, some will say a baby 918/P1/LaF, but it is not sufficient to only propose a similar offering, the numbers must follow. If Honda wasn't the fastest or the most powerful offering, they were close with higher hp/L, power to weight ratios and efficiency.

Honda must higher its game and reconquers their reputation of bringing solutions that shine for their second to none efficiency and originality ...

The new NSX does not incarnate convincingly that ideal. Not a bad try but not enough IMO.



When I see Mc Laren coming with such a fantastic car as the new 720S, it makes me believe that there is a nice future for the sports cars world. It is the same when I look at the new NIO EP9 full electric exotic sports car ...

The new NSX should be sitting between these two cars in terms of design approach and nonetheless at the same height ( or almost ) in terms of performance numbers.


Of course, I would definitely offer a non hybrid NSX variant and later a full electric one ...
 
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