What's the target customer's profile for the new NSX?

[Hothonda]

Take a look around while in the Acura service department's waiting room while getting
the MDX/RDX/RLX/TLX/ILX "express" oil change + a jelly filled donut & you'll see what I mean.

At $89K in 2005 they could barely give 250 of them away in North America - 10
prior years weren't much different & it was a great car.

Most Acura new vehicle buyers are shopping a monthly payment.

I wouldn't have a clue on how they're going to make it happen?

 

[anesthesia]

People who are buying the new Nsx are in a different social economic class, they are buying it as a weekend cruiser or toys
unlike people buying the other model from Acura lineup.

 

[JD Cross]

I think where Honda fell down with Acura is, unlike Nissan and Toyota, they never made distinctive models for the Acura line.
Underneath they were pretty much front wheel drive Hondas.
Acura's were good cars to be sure but why not buy a Honda for less money.

Toyota and Nissan offered different products for the Lexus and Infiniti brands.
Front engine rear drive and some with V8's.
Positioned much better against the European models from MB BMW Audi.

Perhaps complicating things for Honda is the Acura brand only exists in North American and China.
Elsewhere it's all the Honda brand, so maybe it's been hard to justify different models for only two major markets.

If Honda wishes to reposition Acura against the higher priced, higher margin vehicles from Japan and Europe they'll need a product line that can compete.
The new NSX and re-entry into F1 will help raise the profile.
But if all that's following is rebadged Hondas it will be difficult for the Acura brand to be seen as upmarket.

However if we were to see a front engine rear drive performance sedan I think the Acura image would change.
I can envision the current NSX driveline with a longer driveshaft to put the engine in the front of a sedan positioned against the BMW 3 series.
A hybrid driveline with the same AWD torque vectoring features as the NSX should be a strong seller.

Let's hope somewhere in Honda the senior executives have a plan to evolve the Acura product line into something distinctive.

 

[docjohn]

you need to compare the buyer of the 91 nsx new in 1991 to today...it will be the same..those with means who don't follow the stereotypical Italian /German sports-car crowd....

 

[Hothonda]

Without wading through reams of old posts....what's the predicted number of units, 1st year, they plan on manufacturing for USA & then the world?

With a dedicated Ohio factory for the NSX only...geeze that's a big nut $$ to recover making only the halo car.

I know it will be a great car, but so was the first one.

With the exception of the first few years it was a total sales flop. Not bashing by any means - purchased 5 new ones from '94 to 2005. I know how good they were!

 

[JD Cross]

what's the predicted number of units, 1st year, they plan on manufacturing for USA & then the world?

I think it will be about 1500 units for the first year for all markets.
No idea after that.

 

[DreamPowered]

I think with honda being as envolved as they can with nsxprime and its current owners, they expect to sell to existing nsx owners. If the car has P1, 918 like performance it will attract buyers that have the means to buy.

 

[blue_myriddn]

 

[JD Cross]

Audi R 8 sales total less than 1000 per year for North America.
Porsche 911 sales are close to 10,000 per year for North America.
Much easier to attract say, 1000 units per year from Porsche than Audi.

 

[Blackhorse06]

I think where Honda fell down with Acura is, unlike Nissan and Toyota, they never made distinctive models for the Acura line.
Underneath they were pretty much front wheel drive Hondas.
Acura's were good cars to be sure but why not buy a Honda for less money.

Toyota and Nissan offered different products for the Lexus and Infiniti brands.
Front engine rear drive and some with V8's.
Positioned much better against the European models from MB BMW Audi.

Perhaps complicating things for Honda is the Acura brand only exists in North American and China.
Elsewhere it's all the Honda brand, so maybe it's been hard to justify different models for only two major markets.

If Honda wishes to reposition Acura against the higher priced, higher margin vehicles from Japan and Europe they'll need a product line that can compete.
The new NSX and re-entry into F1 will help raise the profile.
But if all that's following is rebadged Hondas it will be difficult for the Acura brand to be seen as upmarket.

However if we were to see a front engine rear drive performance sedan I think the Acura image would change.
I can envision the current NSX driveline with a longer driveshaft to put the engine in the front of a sedan positioned against the BMW 3 series.
A hybrid driveline with the same AWD torque vectoring features as the NSX should be a strong seller.

Let's hope somewhere in Honda the senior executives have a plan to evolve the Acura product line into something distinctive.

+1 Hit right on the head!

 

[blue_myriddn]

Audi R 8 sales total less than 1000 per year for North America.
Porsche 911 sales are close to 10,000 per year for North America.
Much easier to attract say, 1000 units per year from Porsche than Audi.

According to Ted Klaus at the NSXPO2013 presentation, 1,000 units per year is their target.

 

[JD Cross]

According to Ted Klaus at the NSXPO2013 presentation, 1,000 units per year is their target.

Yes I was there and heard him.

What's most disappointing to me is that Mr. Accavitti, who is heading up the Acura marketing group, hasn't made any effort to promote the new NSX to existing NSX owners.
No special position on the wait lists, no reward for being a long term Acura customer.
It looks like instead of a marketing program targeting specific groups like NSX, Porsche, Audi, GTR owners they are going to spend money on advertising to one and all and sell the NSX like a Civic.
Most unprofessional in my mind.

I feel for the line operating staff like Ted Klaus who have put years of effort into developing the new NSX.
Instead of having an exclusive refined sales program to match the development team's efforts, we've got a sales program for a new Civic.

 

[Olyar15]

To be fair to Acura, the car hasn't been officially announced yet. There is nothing right now to promote. And despite not having a car, no price or specs to promote with, people are already lining up to buy one. The UK dealers have even stopped accepting pre-orders even though no car exists. So really, without spending any money, they already have several people ready to buy it. Even in North America, several of us have deposits on a car without having to be courted by Acura. So what's the point of promoting it? They already have us hooked.

When the car is announced, with a MSRP and a planned shipping date, then they can start to promote the car. Until then, there really isn't a point.

 

[JD Cross]

To be fair to Acura, the car hasn't been officially announced yet. There is nothing right now to promote. And despite not having a car, no price or specs to promote with, people are already lining up to buy one. The UK dealers have even stopped accepting pre-orders even though no car exists. So really, without spending any money, they already have several people ready to buy it. Even in North America, several of us have deposits on a car without having to be courted by Acura. So what's the point of promoting it? They already have us hooked.
When the car is announced, with a MSRP and a planned shipping date, then they can start to promote the car. Until then, there really isn't a point.

That's true for today Charles but when you've spent hundreds of millions on car development and a new factory you have to be thinking beyond the initial flurry of interest.
If you plan to make up to, say 10 cars a day, or up to 2500 a year for world sales in order to recoup your development and factory investment, you need to be promoting sales not just for this year but for many years down the road.
As well, having a continuing robust order file creating an aura of exclusivity is important for long term sales success in the NSX segment.

For long term success Honda can't rely on people walking in off the street.
They'll need to be pulling buyers from other marques on a long term basis.
Promoting now to help create and maintain enough demand to keep orders in front of the factory is a pretty basic step for a manufacturing company.
If the NSX launch and promotion fizzles in a year and the order file disappears we'll have discounting again, as many posters have forecast.

If that happens the early buyers (you and I ) will watch our vehicle depreciate rapidly , Ferrari, Porsche etc. will have a big grin and Honda will have every new NSX coming out of the factory worth less and less.
Were I Accavitti, I'd be doing everything possible to promote the NSX to help ensure sales success for at least five years.
And I'd make sure I looked after the 7500 plus existing NSX owners as they are my easiest and best source of sales.

 

[N Spec]

That's true for today Charles but when you've spent hundreds of millions on car development and a new factory you have to be thinking beyond the initial flurry of interest.
If you plan to make up to, say 10 cars a day, or up to 2500 a year for world sales in order to recoup your development and factory investment, you need to be promoting sales not just for this year but for many years down the road.
As well, having a continuing robust order file creating an aura of exclusivity is important for long term sales success in the NSX segment.

For long term success Honda can't rely on people walking in off the street.
They'll need to be pulling buyers from other marques on a long term basis.
Promoting now to help create and maintain enough demand to keep orders in front of the factory is a pretty basic step for a manufacturing company.
If the NSX launch and promotion fizzles in a year and the order file disappears we'll have discounting again, as many posters have forecast.

If that happens the early buyers (you and I ) will watch our vehicle depreciate rapidly , Ferrari, Porsche etc. will have a big grin and Honda will have every new NSX coming out of the factory worth less and less.
Were I Accavitti, I'd be doing everything possible to promote the NSX to help ensure sales success for at least five years.
And I'd make sure I looked after the 7500 plus existing NSX owners as they are my easiest and best source of sales.

Only thing I have to say about depreciation is that the first gen NSX is certainly maintaining a very high value even 20+ years later and it did not sell very well as many have pointed out. I do not believe the values will tank at all unless the hybrid system prove to be extremely unreliable. Also the first buyers will be getting the new NSX for a much lower price than say 5 years from initial release given the price trending of the old NSX and current GTR. That is the only incentive to buy early really as everyone knows in 5 years, the price would increase drastically.

 

[JD Cross]

I think the first generation NSX dropped to about 30 % of it's MSRP value at the bottom and is perhaps at 50 % of MSRP now.
Would that be about right?

I agree it's been a trend amongst Japanese manufacturers to offer value on new model launches with a plan to gradually raise prices going forward.
And it works providing you maintain an order file and sales pace to be able to raise prices without losing volume.

I think Honda has to price the new NSX so that first and foremost the production volume is sold and at a stable price.
If they can maintain that for say three years, then a future NSX buyer can purchase with some confidence that its value should be steady.

Let's face it once you are an owner the value of your car going forward is in Honda's hands.
You hope they have a responsible long term plan.
If they overprice/undersell everyone who bought one plus all their future production is devalued.
I could be wrong but I don't think many Ferrari or Porsche buyers worry too much about their manufacturer cutting prices on them.

Honda has no such track record.

I would think the Honda execs know this and that's why to me it's such a puzzle why the marketing group is so quiet just before the launch.
It suggests they think they can offer the car and the world will rush in and buy it.

Let's consider what Honda UK has done, taken firm deposits for the first 100 cars
A tidy start-up RHD order file and a professional approach.
I don't know but I would think Honda Japan may be doing the same thing.

Honda US seems to be a bit disorganized at this point.

 

[krea.tion]

As someone with marketing background, I find it very hard to pinpoint exactly who the target demo for this car is. But lets take things step-by-step:

1. Price - north of $100k - Automatically this narrows down the field a lot. Naturally you are looking at people earning at least a monthly salary of $8,000. That's not to say someone making less couldn't afford one but that's where I would place the bar for the average consumer of this vehicle.

2. Brand - Its a ~$130,000 Acura and a semi-luxury brand that is struggling to maintain its foothold in the market. For this reason, I believe the uber rich, car collectors and general brand whores will not be purchasing this vehicle. It was more or less the same story with the GT-R. Fantastic car, but many people will not be able to escape the reality that "its still a Nissan".

3. Technology - With hybrid tech, SH-AWD and very sophisticated hardware, this appeals more to the performance minded, young to middle aged buyer that is very in tune with modern technology. Older generation will generally be unable to find value or have gripes with the digital experience especially if coming from more analogue supercars.

4. Design - The design is certainly very modern with its edgy and sharp design language. It is not beautiful in the classic sense. I believe for that reason, the design of the vehicle inside and out will appeal to younger buyers.

I guess if I take those 4 things into consideration, I would argue that the target demo would be a performance minded car enthusiast in his 30's or 40's. Probably a lot of young, successful business owners and entrepreneurs. I don't believe Acura is targeting previous NSX owners as much..

 

[JD Cross]

I guess if I take those 4 things into consideration, I would argue that the target demo would be a performance minded car enthusiast in his 30's or 40's. Probably a lot of young, successful business owners and entrepreneurs. I don't believe Acura is targeting previous NSX owners as much..

Excellent summary and right on the money.

The only point I'd make is the demographic you're suggesting is the same group that is buying used NSX's today.
That's the group that Honda needs to court and cultivate.

 

[krea.tion]

Excellent summary and right on the money.

The only point I'd make is the demographic you're suggesting is the same group that is buying used NSX's today.
That's the group that Honda needs to court and cultivate.

Thanks! To be honest, I am not really sure who is in the market to buy a used NSX today. On one hand, the 1st gen NSX isn't exactly a perfect fit for today's young buyers in that its (in today's terms) underpowered and still quite expensive. Theres just not a whole lot of young people who are looking for an analogue experience AND would pay 60 grand to buy a used example. Those types of people, in my opinion, are out there looking for MK4 Supras, R33 GT-Rs, RX-7s, BRZ's, etc. Then on the other hand, you have the slightly older generation who have the money to buy such a car but who would likely be unwilling to purchase a used NSX at the going price when there are new cars are out there than offer similar or even better performance for the same price. The only real reason, and I am not trying to be offensive just merely my opinion, to buy a used NSX today is if you have some sense of nostalgia about the car. Whether it was a dream car when you were younger or you are a previous owner looking to get back into one.

 

[JD Cross]

Thanks! To be honest, I am not really sure who is in the market to buy a used NSX today.

I very good point. I don't know who are the buyers of used NSX's other than a number I have helped with their purchase.
Most have been in that 30 to 40 year old group.
They've got their daily drivers and then wanted a sports car.
While dated and seen as underpowered by many used NSX's offer terrific value and reliability.

Regardless of who are currently owners and who are buying used ones now and tomorrow I think Honda is missing a big marketing point.
If they were to cultivate existing owners, offer them a preferred position in line for the new car etc. what would they gain?

First it would be the easiest sale for Honda to make - a new car to an existing customer.

Secondly what would the owners of the new NSX do with their old one?
Let's say 50 % of them sell the old one.
That creates a new group of NSX owners driving an older NSX.

When it's time for those people to sell that older NSX do you think they'll consider the new one?
Highly likely they will.

So what Honda gets out of courting existing owners and convincing them to move to the new one is not only a potential sale of a new NSX, but also the creation of a new group of NSX devotees who bought the old NSX.
How much does it cost Honda for this market development
Nothing except the cost of romancing the existing owners.

You're a marketing guy.
If this were your project at Honda wouldn't you pursue the existing owners?

 

[krea.tion]

I very good point. I don't know who are the buyers of used NSX's other than a number I have helped with their purchase.Most have been in that 30 to 40 year old group.They've got their daily drivers and then wanted a sports car.While dated and seen as underpowered by many used NSX's offer terrific value and reliability.Regardless of who are currently owners and who are buying used ones now and tomorrow I think Honda is missing a big marketing point.If they were to cultivate existing owners, offer them a preferred position in line for the new car etc. what would they gain?First it would be the easiest sale for Honda to make - a new car to an existing customer.Secondly what would the owners of the new NSX do with their old one?Let's say 50 % of them sell the old one.That creates a new group of NSX owners driving an older NSX.When it's time for those people to sell that older NSX do you think they'll consider the new one?Highly likely they will.So what Honda gets out of courting existing owners and convincing them to move to the new one is not only a potential sale of a new NSX, but also the creation of a new group of NSX devotees who bought the old NSX.How much does it cost Honda for this market developmentNothing except the cost of romancing the existing owners.You're a marketing guy.If this were your project at Honda wouldn't you pursue the existing owners?

You're absolutely right, you don't even need to be a marketer to see that Honda is out to lunch with their marketing. Incredibly expensive Superbowl ad years before a production version, lack of progress on concept version, no spec release after 7-8 years as a concept, no dedicated website or microsite, purely CGI 'teaser' clip with steel brakes in one version and cross drilled in another, supposed R8 pricing and lack of incentive for existing owners. Lets just hope that the car is better than their marketers. This whole thing is a mess. The most cost effective way to earn business for the new car now is to get Gen 1 owners onboard but, like you said, what are they doing to ensure that and, better question, what do they have to lose? Right now they are acting as if everyone knows what the heck an NSX is and that they can just come out with a sharp looking car, slap a NSX badge on it and sell it to Joe Shmoe for $100k+.

 

[Jetpilot3]

I echo Hothonda's comments and like the discussion JD Cross and krea.tion both have on the marketing and demographic of NSX buyers.

However, I know a few of us late "30-somethings" that are somewhat successful who are already gasping at the predicted entry level pricing of the NSX. There are three of us that are ex-NSX owners (3 on my dime alone) that wish the pricing would be lower when compared to other marques such as Porsche and Audi. The NSX as wonderful as its legacy and future prospects are, will have the epic 991 from Porsche, the Audi R8 and GT-R to live up to and those cars (with the exception of the GT-R) are ones that I'd gladly take in a heartbeat or try and extend my funding for. I'm not sure the NSX can capture that same pedigree unless its released with stunning performance numbers or value for the money...

It will be very interesting to see how Honda will approach their marketing, performance and pricing; because they sure aren't doing a good job of it yet.

 

[JD Cross]

For the gen 1, there was not much to cross shop. Lotus S4 and 911 pretty much. Even in 2005 it was pretty much 911 and V8 Esprit. In 2016 - 911, GTR, R8 as well as some choice used cars depreciating down. Also - performance sedans that put up serious numbers that were less prevalent in the 90's.

It's a different time.

But that's the buyer - the 911/R8/GTR buyer no?

I guess guys like me that were in their teens when the NSX came out and are old enough to consider the new one but how many of us are there?

I don't know what Audi's market research indicates on brand loyal Audi sedan drivers buying/leasing new R8's. If it's strong, that's too bad cause i dont perceive Acura owners as performance oriented and likely to get an NSX.

So Honda needs to get Acura an identity. And, Honda needs to decide if it wants to be as in support of performance as it was in the 90's.

the NSX should be used to generate pull. Put a new Integra/RSX in the line-up with an AWD variant topping the range, maybe a rear wheel or AWD s2000 replacement that has a roof so you arent alienating a buying segment. Do something with the Acura sedans to give them more cachet.

I drove my 90 Integra to 280k miles. That car made me a Honda man for life. 2 NSX's and an Accord are in my garage. When i needed a new fun hatchback for daily driving, Honda had killed the RSX and had no interest in me. Subaru did. Mazdaspeed did. Honda bailed on me. Now i'm older and thinking about a nice sedan. Wouldn't go Acura with what they've got. So they lost my sale to a speed3 back in 2008 and are about to lose it again to another company. I want Honda to release its head from its back-side very badly.

Amen!

 

[nsxtasy]

The only point I'd make is the demographic you're suggesting is the same group that is buying used NSX's today. That's the group that Honda needs to court and cultivate.

I disagree, absolutely and totally.

Honda needs to court and cultivate buyers who can afford to spend $100K+ on a new car. Not a group most of whom spent around $30K on a used car. They are likely to be more successful targeting those with purchases of late-model Ferraris and Porsches than buyers of older NSX's who will never have the means to buy one new.

Honda is in the business of selling new cars, not used ones.

 

[krea.tion]

For the gen 1, there was not much to cross shop. Lotus S4 and 911 pretty much. Even in 2005 it was pretty much 911 and V8 Esprit. In 2016 - 911, GTR, R8 as well as some choice used cars depreciating down. Also - performance sedans that put up serious numbers that were less prevalent in the 90's.

It's a different time.

But that's the buyer - the 911/R8/GTR buyer no?

I guess guys like me that were in their teens when the NSX came out and are old enough to consider the new one but how many of us are there?

I don't know what Audi's market research indicates on brand loyal Audi sedan drivers buying/leasing new R8's. If it's strong, that's too bad cause i dont perceive Acura owners as performance oriented and likely to get an NSX.

So Honda needs to get Acura an identity. And, Honda needs to decide if it wants to be as in support of performance as it was in the 90's.

the NSX should be used to generate pull. Put a new Integra/RSX in the line-up with an AWD variant topping the range, maybe a rear wheel or AWD s2000 replacement that has a roof so you arent alienating a buying segment. Do something with the Acura sedans to give them more cachet.

I drove my 90 Integra to 280k miles. That car made me a Honda man for life. 2 NSX's and an Accord are in my garage. When i needed a new fun hatchback for daily driving, Honda had killed the RSX and had no interest in me. Subaru did. Mazdaspeed did. Honda bailed on me. Now i'm older and thinking about a nice sedan. Wouldn't go Acura with what they've got. So they lost my sale to a speed3 back in 2008 and are about to lose it again to another company. I want Honda to release its head from its back-side very badly.

You hit a lot of good points here. You're right, the market is much more competitive now with tons more to cross shop. Right now, Acura as a brand is super bland. They are like the unmotivated version of Lexus. Lexus and Acura both use incredibly outdated tech ie. the same old 2.5L and drivetrain in the new IS250 but Acura takes it to another level. Seriously, a 5-speed auto in the ILX? Atleast Lexus is trying something radical in the aesthetic department. Honda needs to seriously start bringing more than jewel-eye LEDs into their new vehicles. It starts with advanced technology and engineering. If they can deliver a better product, the marque can rebrand on its own. Its much harder to take something lackluster and try convincing the public that its great. Honda is the brand you look to if you want drama-free, reliable and cost effective ownership. It didn't become that way because Honda waved a magic wand. It became that way because thats what owners truly experienced. If Honda wants Acura to be a certain type of brand, they have to make vehicles that deliver an experience that is associated with that type of brand. I hope the NSX is the car that does that but they have a mountain to climb... I'm staying optimistic though, the car so far looks great and has the technology that I'm excited for.