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Whats up with Turbocharging an NSX?
- Thread starter Qitstrn
- Start date
I'm not relying on the members of this forum for my success. If you think i come on here to stir things up you are wrong. Like i said before i thought this was a tech forum. Looks like i was wrong. This attitude explains everything.Good day. :smile:KGP said:
Qitstrn said:
May I venture this is the last word... :tongue:
len3.8 said:
Funny you should ask Len, I was wondering the same thing. First I thought it must be "CrazyTown" . . then I remembered that was a band with a hot blonde tatted sissyboy singing about butterflies.
Then I thought it must be "TunerTown" . . then I realized thats a restaurant owned by the band Korn and its spelled "TunaTown".
I know its not my town, mine is the one where they park Enzo's on the street . .
What town could it be? Maybe Miami or something. I have seen a lot on the street but seriously not a lot of really high horsepower imports. I only see them at HIN and they are never running .. they have like 6 miles on the odometer. If you drove a 1200 HP supra down main street in Huntington Beach in the summer time it would get impounded and you would get the 'back to stock and must pass state inspection' ticket.
Good Lord, people!
He said he's from Tampa. He asked some basic questions and you call him a hack. He tells you his experiences with cars and you call him a hack. He asks Factor X what mods they've done to make such great horsepower and you accuse him of trying to steal trade secrets. He's unnecessarily apologized to you miscreants over and over again when he's done nothing wrong. Is this the way 'the new guy' is to be treated?
If you wanna act like forum nazis, do it on your own time. Do everyone a favor and just don't respond to his questions! I think the rest of us would prefer to see a question with no answers than see you guys harass this guy any more.
He said he's from Tampa. He asked some basic questions and you call him a hack. He tells you his experiences with cars and you call him a hack. He asks Factor X what mods they've done to make such great horsepower and you accuse him of trying to steal trade secrets. He's unnecessarily apologized to you miscreants over and over again when he's done nothing wrong. Is this the way 'the new guy' is to be treated?
If you wanna act like forum nazis, do it on your own time. Do everyone a favor and just don't respond to his questions! I think the rest of us would prefer to see a question with no answers than see you guys harass this guy any more.
davidb said:
Well said!<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZNxdm395YYUS' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_28_100.gif' alt='Bravo' border=0></a>
Too many times I see these worthless replies that are really antagonistic. This is supposed to be a friendly community. But recently I have seen a trend developing in this Thread and in other Threads that bash the new guy. Some of you guys need to re-think why you choose to post on Prime. Is it so that you can help those people with questions or because you need to show how much you know?! Look, the guy has some questions and curiosity. This is not a bad thing. This is the way that most people become educated - Ask questions. If you don't like his questions just ignore the Thread.
Give him a break. Next time it might be you that is asking for advice...
I am with you DavidB. I don't post much but I do read and follow the posts more. I think people Like KGP, SIG and those that have sour experiences with FI they tend to frown upon positive thinking when it comes to FI. All they think is this is the end of a reasonable 10K- that produces 400WHP.
Qitstrn, I think you just need to ignore negative comments and just respond to the more helpful ones.
Every forum has it's own instigators (not forum nazi but just plain suck people)
Qitstrn, I think you just need to ignore negative comments and just respond to the more helpful ones.
Every forum has it's own instigators (not forum nazi but just plain suck people)
Why don't you post much? Seems to me that you're an ideal source of information for this thread. After all, you set out two years ago in building your own custom turbo setup. Did you not say you would keep everyone up to date with the progress? How did it work out? Surely you have some wisdom to share with those who are looking for answers in this thread.96GoldNSX said:
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Being a neutral party, I have to say I'm somewhat turned off when a brand spanking new member posts right off the bat boasting of a 600 HP Civic, and saying he's not impressed when Factor X posts dyno #'s.
There is a lot more to owning an NSX than pure horsepower. If I cared about ponies that much, I'd be a C6 Z06 owner, not an NSX owner.
There is a lot more to owning an NSX than pure horsepower. If I cared about ponies that much, I'd be a C6 Z06 owner, not an NSX owner.
96GoldNSX said:
96-
This statment is not only presumptive, but very inaccurate. I won't speak for KGP, but I have not had a sour a experience with FI. I say this not only regards to my turbo setup, but also to my supercharger setup I had for the years previous to the turbo build. On that note, the SC setup gave me 375rwhp for $6500. This falls in line with what I said earlier in this thread that there are several sub-10K options out there that get you close to 400rwhp. The only sour NSX moment I've had FI or not, is putting one of mine into a wall at Watkins Glen!
I encourage you to reread the progression of my posts. Nowhere did I say anything negative towards Q until flippant remarks began appearing in each of his responses. Then he would follow with posts that began with (summarizing) "I'm sorry, I didn't mean it that way". Then later in the same paragraph more jabs would be inserted. Thus casting doubt on the genuineness of the mea culpa. Examples:
"Dyno graphs dont impress me so i dont know why they keep getting posted instead of usefull information."
" In my town if you dont have Atleast 500whp on the street you are slow."
" The graphs were posted twice and i never asked for vital information to be diclosed. If you are making 478whp on a motor that you had to sink 20+ thousands of dollars into then no i'm not impressed. "
This is the attitude that makes people sour. I still can't figure out who Q thought was trying to impress him? If he thought it was posted for him and to impress him, that is also emblematic of his worldview. Not only that, but why he had to announce over and over that he wasn't impressed? FactorX posted a chart 1 time because some of the people on this thread emailed them and asked for a dyno plot to be posted for context. KGP replied with quote which automatically brings in the quoted posts contents. Not exactly a campaign to impress Q. When he jumped in with those comments, it came at a point where KGP replied with a joke to FactorX. For whatever reason he inserted himself and began to tell us all once again that we wasn't impressed.
Back to the actual topic at hand. There have been many threads over the years about making your big power kit, beit nitrous/sc/turbo/na. Many times the posters he begin these threads refuse to listen to or accept the statments of those that have traveled the road before them. Generally the statements that they refused to accept were the economics of the issue. Then 6 months later we will find out they abandoned the project due to the ecomonics. It can be done and to be clear I'll say it again, value priced big power kits are possible! To repeat a line from my earlier post, if a sub 10K turbo kit can be released with a standalone ems and proper cooling... it will be a winner! However, if we don't discuss the economics of pulling that off... we are doing a much larger disservice to the Q or whoever is thinking about traveling that road. 95% of these projects started with the intent to sell to customers fail because of the economics. Which is also why I encouraged Q to look at it a different way: Build it for your car first and enjoy it and then afterwards determine if it is feasible to make a dime off it. This will hedge the level of dissappointment there may be if the balance sheet doens't line up.
There are other threads that were similar in nature to this one. Mark911 has a great one about his cusotme built roots supercharger setup in the FI section. I encourage all on this thread who have not read it to do so. Not only does it have a wealth of information but it is also a good example of how a different attittude from the thread orginator creates a much stronger thread. In addition, Barn Man just started a great thread in the 'General' section about an building a big power NA setup. This is another example how the right attitude by the thread originator lays the foundation for a great thread.
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Sig said:
From the Barn Man post:
This forum is full of nay-sayers. No matter who posts what, if it hasnt been done, it cant be done. For that reason I usually dont post many of my ideas or thoughts(its just not worth the hassle). I cant wait for someone to create a reliable kit at an affordable price that puts down 400hp, I know it can be done, all it takes is one person to prove it and the rest will follow. Myself included :biggrin:
Well i'm sorry if i came off cocky. I have read more and more FI posts and they all lead to the same thing. Fuel mamagement. All of the problems disscussed are not NSX related. They are the same problems you run into turbocharging any car that was not turbocharged from the factory. I also said i was building a kit for my car first and would run it for over a year before i decided to sell it to the public. I dont charge $1,000 for tuning i can have it done for half. I just saved you $500 without lifting a finger. I dont see why i'm being attacked when i'm trying to offer something to better the NSX community. I say that i own a 600whp civic and people get pissed. It's better then one with a fartcan exhaust that does 15's in the 1/4 mile. Yes in tampa,Fl there are abot 5 cars running around that run 9's on the street. Another 10 or so that run 10's. They are all different types of cars. My Civic is in the top 10 fastest cars around. I'm not bragging but ALOT of hard work went into that along with alot of time and money. I mentioned this to let you know were i'm coming from not to boast my ego. I have Civic and you think that i'm trying to impress people that have cars that cost more then my house. Get real. 
SNDSOUL said:
The post you quoted was from someone with 30 posts and from a Mustang background.... so his perspective is not purely from an NSX point of view. However, that's not all that important, but what was important about that particular post is the tone he used.... which was that of constructivity.
The other few posts that voiced conern in the NA thread offer a sense of positivity to them. In addition, the majority of the posts overwhelmingly positive in 'tone'. Mark911's thread here was the same way. This positive tonal element is what was missing here and is often what can create of destroy good threads.
Qitstrn said:
Q-
PM me with a list of your specific questions and I will answer them as best as I can.
KGP said:
You are right, too bad my car is ODBII or else I wouldn't have gave up on it. with ODBI it wouldn't be that hard to run low boost anyway. But hey, I started with no back ground of FI and yet I tried really hard and learned quite a bit from it before given up. My only regret now is that I purchsed an ODBII NSX... but other than that I think ODBI is much easier to work with and I would do it again if opportunity given.
With that in mind I don't act like a smart-ass to those are trying to built a FI system.
Sorry my post to Q bothered you so much. I extend the same offer to him as Sig did. He can PM me specific questions, and I will answer as best I can. :wink: As a friendly gesture towards you, I have created an avatar of your NSX for you.
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Ok I am way late into this discussion, and have NOT read all of the posts. (I will take some time to catch up over the next few days, and edit as needed)But I usually take the side that a lot of tuners do NOT know what they are doing when adding FI to an NSX. I just paged through Aprils edition of SCC magazine, and read of Steph P's twin turbo 3.2L NSX motor making 1,600 bhp. Yes I typed 1,600 bhp. It is run by the AEM stand-alone. This proves that it can be done successfully, just like every other turbo Honda on the planet. I used to pound the piss out of my 9psi 18G turbo powered Teg lap after lap hunting down Z06's at RA, and NEVER had a engine reliability issue. I am getting quite sick of hearing people running only 6psi or even 9psi and blowing motors, cracking ring-lands, showing A/F plots that look like my local ski hill etc etc. Someone PLEASE step up and PROVE that it can be done for day-in day-out abuse, and be UNDER $10 grand. ALL of the other V6 kits out there (other makes) have kits under 10K with A/C, I/C, 6-9psi, 100 minimum bhp jump etc etc.
GJ, and FX, have the reliability figured out (almost) but the price is still WAY off.
I will be out watching Mo at the tracks this year demonstrating his turbo kit project. I have seen him take a BBSC and a CTSC installed and tuned by other shops (dangerously) and turn them into power mongers with flat A/F ratios.
For kit suppliers, take your creations to the strip AND road course constantly (like FX) and prove what you have. Our local tuners (AMS, Hahn, Buschur, Extreme to name a few DSM guys) are there almost every weekend. That is why they are so successful. The people trust them, seeing their cars run quickly. At the last NSXPO I was at, there was only 1 turbo car there, and a lot of the SC cars were broke, not running 100%, or slow.
I wish the St. Louis guys the best of luck with their beasts, because there are a lot of them, and they do show up at the track. I hope to run with them a few times this year. ( I just missed KGP @ Gingerman last year due to his work obligations)
To those with kits, do some drags and/or HPDE's, and post some lap times.
To those thinking of getting a kit, shop for your tuner longer than you shop for your kit.
Now ket those cars in the shop and start wrenching!
GJ, and FX, have the reliability figured out (almost) but the price is still WAY off.
I will be out watching Mo at the tracks this year demonstrating his turbo kit project. I have seen him take a BBSC and a CTSC installed and tuned by other shops (dangerously) and turn them into power mongers with flat A/F ratios.
For kit suppliers, take your creations to the strip AND road course constantly (like FX) and prove what you have. Our local tuners (AMS, Hahn, Buschur, Extreme to name a few DSM guys) are there almost every weekend. That is why they are so successful. The people trust them, seeing their cars run quickly. At the last NSXPO I was at, there was only 1 turbo car there, and a lot of the SC cars were broke, not running 100%, or slow.
I wish the St. Louis guys the best of luck with their beasts, because there are a lot of them, and they do show up at the track. I hope to run with them a few times this year. ( I just missed KGP @ Gingerman last year due to his work obligations)
To those with kits, do some drags and/or HPDE's, and post some lap times.
To those thinking of getting a kit, shop for your tuner longer than you shop for your kit.
Now ket those cars in the shop and start wrenching!
Thanks, Tom. I sure do hope I can make it up there this year. I'd love to make the 5/9 date, but my wife might shoot me because I have another little track trip I'm taking in a few weeks, and the 5/9 thing is dangerously close to her birthday.
I'd be very interested in a sub $10k kit as would everyone else. I don't think it's easy and I've never seen a FI system with standalone management that's truly 'bolt on'.
My experience with building an engine has taught me that:
1. it always costs more than you initially think
2. brake, suspension and wheel/tire upgrades should be done first.
When I went to X to see the shop and learn about what they do to the car to prep it for the $20k, Mike was straight up with me. He said, buy the Tien's, at least a 97 NSX brake upgrade (Stoptechs prefered) and some other stuff before I bring him the car. Made sense to me. I would be disapointed if I shipped my car to ANY shop, with an agreement on performance and cost only to be told - by the way, you'll need another $xxx.xx worth of parts and labour to do it right. X didn't give me that impression at all.
I'm going to wait a year or 2 and see what comes out. In the mean time I'll build the rest of the car, enjoy it as is, and benefit from all the hard work and $$$ you guys spend figuring out FI, or how to build a 400whp NA motor.
Good luck and happy driving to all.
My experience with building an engine has taught me that:
1. it always costs more than you initially think
2. brake, suspension and wheel/tire upgrades should be done first.
When I went to X to see the shop and learn about what they do to the car to prep it for the $20k, Mike was straight up with me. He said, buy the Tien's, at least a 97 NSX brake upgrade (Stoptechs prefered) and some other stuff before I bring him the car. Made sense to me. I would be disapointed if I shipped my car to ANY shop, with an agreement on performance and cost only to be told - by the way, you'll need another $xxx.xx worth of parts and labour to do it right. X didn't give me that impression at all.
I'm going to wait a year or 2 and see what comes out. In the mean time I'll build the rest of the car, enjoy it as is, and benefit from all the hard work and $$$ you guys spend figuring out FI, or how to build a 400whp NA motor.
Good luck and happy driving to all.
KGP said:Sorry my post to Q bothered you so much. I extend the same offer to him as Sig did. He can PM me specific questions, and I will answer as best I can. :wink: As a friendly gesture towards you, I have created an avatar of your NSX for you.
Your point is? I don't see it, but all I see is you are being childish when you are pissed. I am glad you hate me at heart... great, because if what I do bother you let it be. haha
BTW, can you make that avatar you made for me into JPG... because I was trying to use it but can't due to the picture being a bitmap type.
Thanks
96GoldNSX said:
not too difficult to convert a bitmap to a jpeg.
@ factorX
757rwhp/599ft/lbs ...damit, thats alot!!!! Hows the drive train, i.e. axles and tranny doing?
757rwhp/599ft/lbs ...damit, thats alot!!!! Hows the drive train, i.e. axles and tranny doing?
96GoldNSX said:
I'm being nice to you (and Q) and you call me childish? Hate you at heart? Pissed? Pal, please don't pretend to know me. BTW, you might want to look again because the avatar I made for you is in jpeg format. :wink: [edit] Whoops, it was a tad too large a file. I changed it to a gif, and should work now.
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I'm pretty sure AEM will eventually make a EMS for the OBDII NSX. When i first did mine their line up was limited. They just made one for the SR20DET and that motor is very poupular. Tho only 2 ways i know around this problem right now is have someone wire in an AEM. It can be done. I have seen it done to several cars they dont make AEM for. We just did an friends 86 300zx with an SR20 swap. Also you can make a Conversion harness that will let you plug in an ODBI ecu into an ODBII car. I have a friend that sells the harness's for Civics/integra's. A conversion harness sells for $100. It's stuff like this that will get me over the hump. I would like to thank you guys for the offers of help through pm's. I dont know why they would have to be pmed but what ever makes you happy. :wink:96GoldNSX said:
Actually there are more then two. Motec, HKS, Tec3 and convert to OBDI. The Motec is way expensive. The HKS has yet to be done to an NSX (just came out). The Tec has been done to a 97 with success and a 95 just rolled off the line with one. As to your thought of using the AEM with a conversion harness: We happen to have Devin Pearce on the forum, who works for AEM now, and has tuned and built many FI NSX's. Perhaps he can answer to that.Qitstrn said:
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