Where are all the Production deliveries ??

[sadlerau]

I already own one rare car, and I also leased a RLX Sport Hybrid (itself a very uncommon car, and an unexpected sleeper at that!) for a time, so I am definitely not against owning rare cars. I just hope Honda/Acura next time release a halo car that is better accepted by the buying public. I'm sure it's in the works somewhere, somehow...I hope...

I've been saying it since before the MkII was released, the NSX would only make a sales splash if -
Honda started winning in F1 again, or
It became the car to have in GT3 racing, or
The NSX did something special performance wise, either handling (I really thought eSH-AWD would be the answer) or speed,
Or more likely all of the above.

Honda/Acura simply does not have the marque cache to garner big sales, no matter how good a vehicle the NSX already is.

 

[docjohn]

having brand loyalty and desirability is created by the constant development/incremental improvement/and steadfast manufacturer support for the product...Porsche and the other competitors didn't hit it out of the park from the get go...912 anyone...but they persisted....it has taken decades to become the go to brand for the doctor/lawyer/new money set....honda was building up to the nsx and was perched to create a sporting legacy...then Fu$% it up by doing really nothing with the nsx for 15 years resting on its laurels...then killing it and s2000 ...now we get the reboot...and the market place has spoken...you fu%^ it up Honda...

 

[Mac Attack]

Well, the NSX team lead was promoted to a VP, so I guess he did OK.

 

[RYU]

I've said this before and many have.. but I see the clear and widening divergence between purely commuter cars (fully autonomous anyone?) and the smaller subset of enthusiast cars starting with Sportscars to Hypercars. My fear is that the Toyotas and Hondas of the world will pull out of the sportscar game (#becausebeancounters) and never build enthusiast oriented cars anymore. They might just leave the market to the Porsches of the world. I hope not but maybe... That would be quite a boring market place.

But back to the abysmal sales of the NSX. YIKES.. I suppose these sales figures reflect orders for the 2019 and revamped orange with the nosejob?

 

[thackl]

If people only knew how great this car is.... I'm loving mine and not my first supercar rodeo by any stretch.

 

[vf2ss]

^ This is unfolding very similarly to how underrated yet truly loved by owners the VW Phaeton was. So few were made, they barely moved off the lot, but they weren't too hard to resell because there's always an enthusiast (and so rare), fears VW wouldn't support them didn't come to pass...etc. Just a great, solid-built car, but because of VW exceeding their brands price point capacity...the market passed on it.

Here's an interesting comparison to add to a previous chart in this thread since others have mentioned "when will they pull the plug" on the NSX. The Phaeton's first year sales (343 units) was just a little better than Gen 2's first year sales (269 units). By year 2, the Phaeton was literally on par (1,939 units) with the Gen 1's second year of sales (1,940 units). By year 3, the Phaeton (820 units) was selling somewhere in between the Gen 1 (1,154 units) and Gen 2 (122 units and counting for 2018). By the end of the 2006 production year (235 units) VW pulled the plug on the Phaeton even though they were incredibly financially healthy at the time.

 

[Bricks and Bio]

The update

The sales numbers have been low, so 13 does not surprise folks inside

They haven't had an internal sales meeting for weeks

Dealers want lower pricing and the current internal view is the car is priced correctly, go sell them

Test drives in the desert are continuing

No changes to the car for 2020 model year expected

They are trying to avoid shifting employees between factories so just a slower pace on the shop floor for now

Call volume to the Specialists is down, much of the current asks are to beetch about the recall experiences

No info on pulling the plug, maybe after Honda gets something sporty in the line up

Unknown if the car's internal back boxes can tell if some one added a tune like the one we recently heard about and then removed that stuff if a warrantee situation occurred

 

[docjohn]

^ This is unfolding very similarly to how underrated yet truly loved by owners the VW Phaeton was. So few were made, they barely moved off the lot, but they weren't too hard to resell because there's always an enthusiast (and so rare), fears VW wouldn't support them didn't come to pass...etc. Just a great, solid-built car, but because of VW exceeding their brands price point capacity...the market passed on it.

Here's an interesting comparison to add to a previous chart in this thread since others have mentioned "when will they pull the plug" on the NSX. The Phaeton's first year sales (343 units) was just a little better than Gen 2's first year sales (269 units). By year 2, the Phaeton was literally on par (1,939 units) with the Gen 1's second year of sales (1,940 units). By year 3, the Phaeton (820 units) was selling somewhere in between the Gen 1 (1,154 units) and Gen 2 (122 units and counting for 2018). By the end of the 2006 production year (235 units) VW pulled the plug on the Phaeton even though they were incredibly financially healthy at the time.

the phaeton is a little deceiving as a comparable....it was to the keen observer a Bentley in vw clothes...

 

[lucky]

I desperately wanted a 2017 and was keeping my fingers crossed in 2014 that it would come in at the 150 CAN range just because of the market they needed to start to play in to be a hit from the go... the base price with the mandatory carbon put it north of 208 CAN for a base build plus 13% tax and then trying to justify 240K to the wife just was not going to happen - so 2 years later, I can now realistically get in at that price in canada next spring if the trend continues. I had my 92 and literally had 2 stepping stone options, a manual 360 or manual R8 went with the 360 and now can hopefully get the Gen 2 (albeit gently used) I always wanted next spring. its a hard market to play in and I know when I do get it, i'll keep it for ages... just wish I didnt need to step to the 360 first to get it ah well

The costs for development and the factory are sunk.

There are plenty of costs to build each car (labor and materials). At the current low volumes they are not breaking even. If they lower prices to gain volume, we have no idea where the monthly sales have to be to get into the black. The way the car appears to be perceived, they might not increase volume enough to get anywhere even with lower prices. Bottom line is the program is a financial flunk. Those of us with the cars are happy because they are a blast. The most interesting exercise will be predicting when Honda will pull the plug.

 

[Mac Attack]

^ This is unfolding very similarly to how underrated yet truly loved by owners the VW Phaeton was. So few were made, they barely moved off the lot, but they weren't too hard to resell because there's always an enthusiast (and so rare), fears VW wouldn't support them didn't come to pass...etc. Just a great, solid-built car, but because of VW exceeding their brands price point capacity...the market passed on it.

Here's an interesting comparison to add to a previous chart in this thread since others have mentioned "when will they pull the plug" on the NSX. The Phaeton's first year sales (343 units) was just a little better than Gen 2's first year sales (269 units). By year 2, the Phaeton was literally on par (1,939 units) with the Gen 1's second year of sales (1,940 units). By year 3, the Phaeton (820 units) was selling somewhere in between the Gen 1 (1,154 units) and Gen 2 (122 units and counting for 2018). By the end of the 2006 production year (235 units) VW pulled the plug on the Phaeton even though they were incredibly financially healthy at the time.

When did Honda begin discounting the Gen 1's to move them? I'd have to look at my paperwork, but I recall the original owner of my '92 paid ~10k over sticker price in Miami FL to get it. Seems like they got screwed, but my point is, I *believe* Honda waited about three years after introduction before they began discounting the Gen 1's.

Gen 2's were discounted $40-60k after just their first year.

As a previous poster said, development and manufacturing losses have already been written off. Execs just look at future predicted losses and determine if the intangible benefits outweigh those before deciding to pull the plug. We'll just have to wait and see how stubborn they are. Too bad because it is a cool vehicle.

 

[RYU]

As a previous poster said, development and manufacturing losses have already been written off. Execs just look at future predicted losses and determine if the intangible benefits outweigh those before deciding to pull the plug. We'll just have to wait and see how stubborn they are. Too bad because it is a cool vehicle.

I think it's difficult to say what of true NSX development & manufacturing costs have been written off w/o at least looking at their audit. It's such a big company and, while i'm not an accounting expert, they can creatively allocate those cost among different model line-ups. For example, it wouldn't be a stretch to me if they allocated development cost of the NSX overall as part of the R&D budget of the MDX & RDS SH-AWD system. Also, with the depreciation rules of their CapEx (robots, machines, factory) can be depreciated from 3yrs to 40yrs.

It's just tough to say what their doing in on their books w/o looking so i'm of the opinion there are other decisions involved.

Now, if they were say a small coachworks or supercar manufacturer with one model it could be easier to justify.

$0.02

 

[Mac Attack]

It's just tough to say what their doing in on their books w/o looking so i'm of the opinion there are other decisions involved.

$0.02

The devil is in the details, and it's not available to the general population. However, looking at the last seven yearly financial results for HMC, nothing stands out for depreciation and amortization. Obviously, the NSX program is just a small blip in the overall financial health of HMC today. I assume it was a more important program to HMC image and survival back in the late 80's and 90's than it is now. I still think NSX 2.0 longevity is dependent on the whim of a small group of execs, and they're not really concerned with the costs already sunk in the program.

Of note is that HMC wants two-thirds of their vehicles to be hybrids or plug-in hybrids by the year 2030. Toyota has done a much better job with their hybrids (technologically and sales-wise over the years), and they didn't feel the need to waste money on a halo hybrid sports car.

My $0.02!

 

[NZNick]

I appreciate that Prime is a North American site, but Honda is a worldwide company, and the NSX is sold in many countries around the globe. Are worldwide sales by country available ? If so, I for one would love to see the whole picture.

 

[RyanRA]

I appreciate that Prime is a North American site, but Honda is a worldwide company, and the NSX is sold in many countries around the globe. Are worldwide sales by country available ? If so, I for one would love to see the whole picture.

I haven't seen a consolidated listing either, but found this link for EU sales.

http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/honda/honda-nsx/

 

[vf2ss]

Here's Canada...

[LINK]

 

[vf2ss]

the phaeton is a little deceiving as a comparable....it was to the keen observer a Bentley in vw clothes...

Perhaps. I guess a point I should have mentioned earlier is that both auto manufacturers exceeded their brand's avg price point capacity by a factor of 5 (if you look at the math...)

VW was making Jettas, GTIs and Golfs, avg price $20k (back then), to a (x's 5) $100,000 luxury car.
Acura is making sedans and SUVS, avg price $40k (based on their current lineup), to a (x's 5) $200,000 supercar.

When did Honda begin discounting the Gen 1's to move them? I'd have to look at my paperwork, but I recall the original owner of my '92 paid ~10k over sticker price in Miami FL to get it. Seems like they got screwed, but my point is, I *believe* Honda waited about three years after introduction before they began discounting the Gen 1's.

Gen 2's were discounted $40-60k after just their first year.

As a previous poster said, development and manufacturing losses have already been written off. Execs just look at future predicted losses and determine if the intangible benefits outweigh those before deciding to pull the plug. We'll just have to wait and see how stubborn they are. Too bad because it is a cool vehicle.

The original owner of mine also paid around $10k over sticker in W Palm Beach! I think you're right about the timing on the Gen 1 discounts, and the announcement in '94 of the upgrades for '95 would help facilitate that as well as sales getting cut in half ('92 @ 1,150 units to '93 @ 650 units).

 

[Craigy]

I finally saw an NSX on the road a few nights ago. First car I've seen not at pebble or on a showroom floor. It looked really good.

 

[piano]

Here's Canada...

[LINK]

Wow .. so just .. ~ 100 2nd gen NSX sold in Canada total, and I was the 1 of 2 for that month .. *_* More Huracan or 488 or GT3* sold in a month than NSX in 2 year! I still think for less than half the price, NSX is 85% the car of 488 ... I wonder what happened in last May ... 18 NSX sold!!

 

[DocL]

Wow .. so just .. ~ 100 2nd gen NSX sold in Canada total, and I was the 1 of 2 for that month .. *_* More Huracan or 488 or GT3* sold in a month than NSX in 2 year! I still think for less than half the price, NSX is 85% the car of 488 ... I wonder what happened in last May ... 18 NSX sold!!

Yet the 488 is 100x more reliable. The new NSX is a pile of cr@p. Mine has been back to the dealer seven times in 14 months of ownership. Not one time was for routine service and I only have 88xx miles on it.

 

[piano]

That is weird... I found and feel the NSX as reliable and solid as modern 911 .. I got a late model (1xxx) and my friend got a early one, also less issues than the F,P, L,M and L etc sports car brands...(not talking recall)

I guess it depends on luck, may be we got the good 100 cars in Canada? LoL

 

[neuronbob]

Yet the 488 is 100x more reliable. The new NSX is a pile of cr@p. Mine has been back to the dealer seven times in 14 months of ownership. Not one time was for routine service and I only have 88xx miles on it.

I'm genuinely surprised by this, and we know you are a true NSX fan (of both gens at that). Sorry to read of this, and I hope your issues are resolved.

 

[Viper Driver]

Yet the 488 is 100x more reliable. The new NSX is a pile of cr@p. Mine has been back to the dealer seven times in 14 months of ownership. Not one time was for routine service and I only have 88xx miles on it.

I've been following your saga and I have to say it's been terrible. You have my sympathies and I'd be pretty pissed if I were you as well. To have a crappy dealership screw up your car would probably have me dropping the NSX like a hot potato as well. But you are definitely an outlier in the data points on the new car, as the vast majority of cars have been relatively trouble free. Mine goes over 10,000 miles today and the window noise has been the only issue I've had so far.

 

[Gondo89]

Yet the 488 is 100x more reliable. The new NSX is a pile of cr@p. Mine has been back to the dealer seven times in 14 months of ownership. Not one time was for routine service and I only have 88xx miles on it.

Mercedes is apparently buying back several S63s and E63s because of a CEL that they can’t diagnose.
Have you let a Acura / Honda exec know what’s going on ? Apparently that’s how some AMG owners got the company to take action after umpteeen trips to the dealer and being stuck in a C class loaner for months...

 

[Jinks]

I’m not surprised at all. The car I drove in 2016 had major issues too. Loud thuds from suspension, grinding and squealing brakes, wind noise, rattles from the interior, etc.

 

[goldNSX]

Never buy a unit of the first production year, that's valid since the day cars are getting built. :wink: But I'm pretty sure Acura/Honda will fix all of them.