Which is best, NOS, SC, TT?

[nsxtasy]

Ilya - what's your email?

You can find out anyone's e-mail address by clicking on the little envelope icon at the top of their post. (Unless they've chosen not to disclose it, in which case the icon doesn't appear.)

 

[ilya]

you beat me to it.

Any time you want to stop by on a weekend I'm game. We are planning a monthly dinner within the next few weeks (probably sooner)and there should be at least 15 NSXs there which would be a good chance for you to see many variations. We have monthly dinners in Huntingon Beach, but have also started having them here in LA recently. If you're on the NSX listserv you should get the email with details once it's sent.
If not, I recommend getting on it. Excellent resource.

[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 05 August 2001).]

[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 05 August 2001).]

 

[bartonkt]

And how do I go about getting on the Listserve??

 

[nsxtasy]

See "How do I join an NSXCA mailing list?" partway down here:
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Resources/emaillist.htm

 

[bartonkt]

Jesus...that was DAMN fast...you just hitting the refresh button or what??!!

 

[Ryan Kauffman]

Quick Introduction:
I've been lurking on the board for awhile, since I figured there were enough "future" NSX owners on here to keep you guys busy, but I decided it's about time to post.

I currently drive a '98 M-B SLK230 (YellowStone paint, I love it), and am looking to purchase a black/black 3.0 (probably 93 so I don't even have to think about SRF). I'll probably wait until spring due to nasty Ohio weather.

Now to my question:
ilya: Which custom turbo kit were you referencing in the beginning of this thread? The only one I was really familiar with was the BEGI kit, which sounded like about what I wanted, but the early business practices give me the same wariness as many of the others I've seen on the board. If there are other options (possibly capable of higher boost, I'm going to aim for > 420 rwhp), I'd really like to hear about them.

I'm also considering NOS to hold me over until a turbo purchase. My partner drives a modded Viper and I can already imagine the frustration of trying to keep up in a stock NSX. I understand that it's not too practical for a lot of use, but I was wondering what RPM range you had to be above on your 100 shot to run it safely/properly.

Thanks to all the members for the knowledge I've been able to soak up thus far, and thanks in advance for the advice.

 

[ilya]

I was referring to a new custom turbo kit that will soon be offered by NSX Modified. He's installed dozens of custom turbos/SCs and has decided to create a standard for those of us who would love one, but can;t afford 10K. He's going to charge 5K installed and there was an article about this in the last NSXDriver. This is an identical setup to something he did for Mavrick, except this should be hidden vs. the very obvious tubing on that one.
He's not a retailer so he's only charging for cost of parts and labor (which is where he makes his money).
However, for 420RWHP I think you would have to strengthen the engine too which would cost you.
As for NOS, I don't think you could beat a Viper even with a 100 shot. The acceleration on those animals is sick. It's not just the power, it's the gearing. All else being equal, you would have to put out close to the same power and change your gearing for low speed acceleration. An R&P may not even be enough, you may need a torque converter too (Viper has 4.10 stock I think) . In the process you would IMO mess up what's so great about the NSX.
Kill it on the twisties.

 

[nsxtasy]

I'll probably wait until spring due to nasty Ohio weather.

Keep in mind that this October is your only opportunity for the next several years to drive to an NSXPO close to home. This year's event, NSXPO 2001, will take place in Wisconsin, with a track event at Road America, one of the biggest, most beautiful, and most historic tracks in the country. There will be over 100 NSX's there, and the opportunity to join a caravan of NSX's to drive there together. Loads of fun...

 

[Ryan Kauffman]

Yeah, the more I thought about it, 420 rwhp is a bit lofty... I knew it'd take strengthened internals, but I was thinking long-term goals... the BEGI kit just seemed kind of limited from what I've read.

I know I'd have no hope of keeping up with the Viper in the straights, just talking about NOS as something to quickly close a good portion of the near 2 second 1/4 mile time gap.

I realize that that post made it seem like I'm getting the car for straight-line performance, which I'm not, I just see it as the cars biggest weakness stock.

In what gears/RPM range do you use your N20? Also, I've heard good things about the RM 70 shot, do you think that your 100 shot set-up has the same reliability?

 

[David]

Originally posted by Ryan Kauffman:
[BI know I'd have no hope of keeping up with the Viper in the straights, just talking about NOS as something to quickly close a good portion of the near 2 second 1/4 mile time gap.

In what gears/RPM range do you use your N20? Also, I've heard good things about the RM 70 shot, do you think that your 100 shot set-up has the same reliability?[/B]

My turbo car will walk away from Vipers on the highway. Ran a Venom the other day, easily.

As far as NOS, the RM kit is nice if you don't want to think about it or if you are willing to pay a premium for the nice switches, but you can save a lot by doing it yourself. Even a 100 wet shot (vs the RM dry) is an easy install on an NSX. If you are handy at all, you can do a port-injected wet system for what RM charges.

The NOS/Holley part number for their NSX wet kit is 05124. Cost is probably about $500. Nitrous Express also has a wet kit that will work.

There is a member of this board that is running a dual stage 250 wet shot on his car. Brent runs what - 150 shot?

I use a small (only 70 hp) shot to spool up my turbo.

 

[jackmac]

HI DAVID,
You are the first person I heard to have a NOS+turbo kit combo! Can the car handle that much power? Do you need special traction devices?
THanks
JACK

 

[scott]

I bought the RM 70 shot kit. Basically wasted $1500. If I had to do it again I would just order straight from NOS and set it up for 150 shot. The 70 shot does not seem like it has enough juice. Also I would wire it in so that it activates on full throttle with a minimum RPM set point or get a porportioner to meter in the NOS.

NOS does not have to overcome the frictional losses of driving a supercharger so will actually put less stress on your engine as long as there is enough fuel.

NOS is way cheaper than supercharger and probably weighs less. I don't know for sure though.

For 150 shot you will need to upgrade the fuel pump.

 

[David]

Originally posted by jackmac:
HI DAVID,
You are the first person I heard to have a NOS+turbo kit combo! Can the car handle that much power? Do you need special traction devices?

I just use the NOS to spool up the turbo. It is set to come on at WOT if boost is less than 6 psi. Otherwise it is off. It rarely runs for more than a second, because as soon as it hits, the turbo goes way into the boost curve. This is a pretty common setup with the single turbo Supra guys. Works great and all it takes is a Hobbes switch to control it.

As far as traction, I have disabled the TCS, but I still have two really cool traction devices - 335s!

 

[JChoice]

I don't think there is current a turbo setup on the market as of today for the NSX that is even worth comparing to the SC setup.

If enough people were interested, I'm sure a killer kit can be made for $5000 - $7500 installed (Larry Garcia at NSX Modified is working on one).

From personal experience, on my other car, there were numerous kits available but until a REAl automotive engineer made a kit for it - nothing was really worth buying. He developed a clean kit that took the car from 170 hp to 300 hp streetable HP with NO engine upgrades! Also, by using the right turbo setup, he was able to make a kit that gave full boost at 2500rpm which means very little lag.

I'm sure the same can be done for the NSX.

 

[ilya]

My NOS is a manual setup. I hit the button at 4K RPMS or over and at wide open throttle.
NOS can always be safe as long as it is installed by a pro, used properly by the individual, and does not exceed the HP limits of the engine.
Many times it is installed poorly, the individual does not use it safely, or is too much power for the engine to handle. That's when you blow it up.
It's a great equalizer for certain situations, but it would be nice to have the power all of the time. That's why I'm saving for Larry's custom turbo. Once I have enough, I'll be selling my system for $700 which is what I paid.

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by JChoice:
I don't think there is current a turbo setup on the market as of today for the NSX that is even worth comparing to the SC setup.

I disagree.

From personal experience, on my other car, there were numerous kits available but until a REAl automotive engineer made a kit for it - nothing was really worth buying. He developed a clean kit that took the car from 170 hp to 300 hp streetable HP with NO engine upgrades! Also, by using the right turbo setup, he was able to make a kit that gave full boost at 2500rpm which means very little lag.

You have just described the Bell TT kit. Perfect? No. But if you are willing to start with the basic kit and use a better fuel delivery system, it leaves any of the common SC options in the dust. Period. Feel free to argue, but neither my personal experience nor any real-world figures I've ever seen suggest otherwise.

That said, at this point I'd definitely wait to see how the much talked about new kit turns out. Could be as good or better, and a lot less $$.

 

[ilya]

I was at the shop last week and we talked about it a bit. If you've seen the car, it's supposed to be the same setup as Mavrik's NSX (the Cage Combat fighter). The difference is that the tubing will be hidden and much less obvious than on his car where you can see all the tubing above the engine (similar to the Gruppe M, but not as pretty

). Think he likes it that way... it's imposing.
There are usually two answers with Larry:
"Can I get that thing to put out 500HP?"
Answer: "Sure, but it'll cost ya." or
Answer: "How much ya got?" or

You can always turn up boost on a turbo. Larry knows how to do it right and safely.
He only charges parts (you can buy it yourself if you like) and labor.

It's only a matter of "How much ya got?"

For 5K, I'm in!

 

[bartonkt]

Which is why I'm staying away from Larry's shop until Thursday...its only 2 miles away from my home, and I don't want to be tempted in the least.

That said, I do hope he can talk a little more about the Turbo kit on thursday (NSXSC meeting). IF the turbo does indeed deliver more power or equivalent to that of the standard Comptech/Gruppe M SC's, I'm all in....

 

[SpeedDemon]

Originally posted by JChoice:
I don't think there is current a turbo setup on the market as of today for the NSX that is even worth comparing to the SC setup.

This just shows your ignorance regarding a Bell TT setup. A Bell TT kit will match or beat a similarly equipped Comptech or GM SC kit. For less money. The Bell kit ain't perfect but your comment about no turbo kits being even worth a comparison is ludicrous.

If enough people were interested, I'm sure a killer kit can be made for $5000 - $7500 installed (Larry Garcia at NSX Modified is working on one).

Until Larry's "killer turbo kit" is ready, I'd say it isn't "even worth comparing to an SC setup". If it doesn't exist yet and you can't buy one, there's no use saying it will or won't be great. That turbo kit has been in the works for quite some time now.

Marc
97 NSX-T Twin Turbo

 

[nsxtasy]

I do hope he can talk a little more about the Turbo kit on thursday (NSXSC meeting).

I believe you are actually referring to the NSXCA meeting (NSX Club of America).